Crazyhouse status?

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abgursu
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:34 pm
Full name: A. B. Gursu

Re: Crazyhouse status?

Post by abgursu »

MTaktikos wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:00 pm
lkaufman wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:45 pm I downloaded liground; is the "Fairy Stockfish 13" included with it the same as or at least fairly close to the FSF with your recommended net for Crazyhouse? If not, how to I add an engine (there is an "add engine" button, but it's not obvious what to do after clicking it)?
No, version 13 is not up to date. Here how to install the new engine (because this instructions are also for other readers who want to install an uci-engine in liground, and may even have not found the add-button, I think it's the best to give all the steps explicitly):
1) After starting liground, set the chess variant to "Crazyhouse"
2) Click on "Settings"
3) In the right of the board, you can see the name of one of the installed engines, and in the right of this name, there are icons to edit this engine, to remove this engine from liground, or to add a new engine (+). Click on the add -icon
4) There pops up a mini window. Here you click on "Select path" and, after navigating through your HD folders, double-click on your file FSFCrazyhouse.exe.
5) Then edit in the mini window the first line (Name) with a name of your choice for the Crazyhouse engine (I took FSFCrazyhouse). And then click on the green button "Save" in the mini window
6) Then you set the mouse on the little arrow directly right of the engine name, and you can chose the name of the new defined engine (in my case, FSFCrazyhouse)
7) Continue to edit the settings, on my PC I edited Threads to 24 (instead of 1) and Hash to 4096 (instead of 16). Usually there is to edit also the nnue path, but in the engine I compiled it's predefined. Then click on the green "Save" button
8) Now the engine starts, you see below some extremely small lines that give the cmd output. Wait some seconds until no new lines are printed, then your engine is ready to analyze
9) Then you go to the big button in the right of the engine name (FSFCrazyhouse), click on it, the analysis starts, and you can move the pieces on the board and also take moves back, while the analysis is adapted to every new position
Regarding your above main line, 1.e4 Nf6? 2.e5 d5?? 3.d4??, how can that possibly be good play? I don't know if you are a chess or shogi player, but it is absurd to think that winning a knight for a pawn on move 3 can be bad, even in Crazyhouse. Black blunders the knight, White declines!!
Tried to move back and forth, but FSF remains in this line and evaluates White's advantage as +1.94, see the picture below
Image

OK, let's not decline the knight capture, we move 3. e5xf6. The liground analysis gives FSF's answer 3... e7xf6, and then, looking at the evaluation, hm, FSF obviously "thinks" that White blundered and that Black can now reach a draw. Are you sure, that this must be an evaluation error, or is it possible, that FSF can see something that we don't see?
It's because you give up the most important squares e5 and g5. The crazyhouse evaluation is tricky and that variation is a common trick. Knights are useless if the opponent king is completely safe. I can use that pawn on e4, h3 or h6 in different variants but your knight can't go to e5, can't go to g5... Also I have better development due to black's free c bishop. That bishop helps the idea of h3 or it comes to g4 and pins your knight etc etc. But white has ideas too, starting with having an extra knight, white can sacrifice a bishop on f7 and sacrifice the extra knight on g5 if f3 knight can sit long in g5 square. So you take the extra knight to probably sacrifice. Otherwise, pawns will build a fortress for opponent king.
The main idea is initiative and king safety in crazyhouse is and must be almost equal to QueenMg Value in Standard Chess Stockfish. There are games that one player sacrifices almost 10-15 pieces to get opponent king into a mate net, games with 3 pieces sacrifice to build a pawn fortress.
Carlos777
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Crazyhouse status?

Post by Carlos777 »

MTaktikos wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:50 pm
lkaufman wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 5:50 pm So what stronger engines are available for the PC?
Almost sure your engine had not access (perhaps wrong path) to the NNUE file.

The stongest engine for Crazyhouse chess is Fairy-Stockfish with crazyhouse-8ebf84784ad2.nnue of Belzedar, which plays 1136 Elo (!) above classic evaluation (https://fairy-stockfish.github.io/nnue/)
The variantBot of lichess is AFAIK nothing else than Fairy-Stockfish (https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedb ... -stockfish)

Don't know which user interface you used for the engine match and if it has an ini file where you can edit the path of the nnue file. To make things easier, I made Windows compiles with embedded Crazyhouse net, where the above mentioned net is already predefined, have compiled the engine as avx2 (for AMD CPUs) and bmi2 (for Intel CPUs)
You can download it here:
https://filehorst.de/d/eJnicBzx
If you want to analyse the first-player advantage of the game, of course it is not recommended to run it single-threaded, but give it so many threads as your CPU allows.

The second top engine in strength is CrazyAra, for my GPU 3060Ti it is CrazyAra 0.95 (https://github.com/QueensGambit/CrazyAr ... nsorRT.zip and net https://github.com/QueensGambit/CrazyAr ... -os-96.zip)
Hi,

I am using your binary for testing. Is it the largeboard or 8x8 one?

Regards,
Carlos
MTaktikos
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:58 pm
Full name: Michael Taktikos

Re: Crazyhouse status?

Post by MTaktikos »

Hi,

I am using your binary for testing. Is it the largeboard or 8x8 one?

Regards,
Carlos
It is the 8x8 one. If you want to compile the src code for largeboards, simply find in the Makefile the line
largeboards = no
and change it to
largeboards = yes
and copy in the src folder also the mentioned Crazyhouse nnue file. (But if you are interested in a fast compile just for the Crazyhouse variant, that wouldn't make much sense, in this variant the 8x8 version is the fastest)

cheers,
Michael Taktikos
Carlos777
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Crazyhouse status?

Post by Carlos777 »

MTaktikos wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:20 pm
Hi,

I am using your binary for testing. Is it the largeboard or 8x8 one?

Regards,
Carlos
It is the 8x8 one. If you want to compile the src code for largeboards, simply find in the Makefile the line
largeboards = no
and change it to
largeboards = yes
and copy in the src folder also the mentioned Crazyhouse nnue file. (But if you are interested in a fast compile just for the Crazyhouse variant, that wouldn't make much sense, in this variant the 8x8 version is the fastest)

cheers,
Michael Taktikos
Great! As you said, there is no need to use the largeboard binary, cause it is slower than the 8x8. You can check the results here.