If computer engine ever solve Chess, it will still be interesting!

[jefk]

adding a small correction, i meant Adorjan ('Black is ok') not Akopian. In the Chinese database you can see that there's no way
for White to force the advantage (not that this database is much good for human otb play, Chessbase and some other programs are better because it also has statistics, and combined with the live book this is a more fundamental way of exploring openings). But for the thought experiment of 'solving chess' the database is a good illustration. Whereby we see that White cannot fundamentally force an advantage leading to a win.

Is that by now obvious some would say ? Well not really because of the frequent (almost) zero (0.0) scoring of SF. But i looked at other topprograms (eg Rebel16, Koivisto, etc) which give higher scores for good lines, and while they may hint to possible plans to get a tiny advantage in the endgame, such advantage simply is never enough to achieve a win (with
perfect or very good ie adeqaute strong) play for Black.

In old times there were (and still are) theories of accumulating small advantages for the side who gained an advantage
after the opening. There even was a book by a former correspondence champion mr H. Berliner ('The System') where he suspects an
an initial advantage for White after 1.d4 would be sufficient (with subsequent 'system' moves) for a theoretical win for White (incorrect as we know by know). The theory of accumulating small advantages is still correct, but in completely balanced positions, it's impossible to accumulate any advantage (and the 'advantage' which programs as Rebel16 indicate, also don't lead to win for White if Black defends well enough, first because in completely balanced positions (with sound openings lines for White and
certainly for Black) and second simply because of the relatively rather high draw margin in chess.
But then again, who cares, chess remains interesting of course for humans indeed (without computers as in ICCF correspondence chess); even if you play solid defensive moves for Black in the opening, a much strong player will nevertheless be able to defeat you (in fact you can just as well be defeated by Black if you are the weaker player, certainly if Black then would choose more unbalanced lines.

[towforce]

Can someone explain to me what the Chinese chess database is, please (or at least provide a link)? I've searched, but the results I'm getting back are databases of "Chinese Chess" games - and IIRC "Chinese Chess" is a different game from "Chess".

Regarding the topic: I've stated my belief many times, so I'll be super brief:

1. I believe the evidence is sufficiently strong that chess is a draw with optimal play to call it that way (I agree it's not mathematically proven)

2. I believe that it will be possible to prove this without generating a massive game tree well before the end of this century

[Ajedrecista]

Hello:

Can someone explain to me what the Chinese chess database is, please (or at least provide a link)? I've searched, but the results I'm getting back are databases of "Chinese Chess" games - and IIRC "Chinese Chess" is a different game from "Chess".

[...]

Try this link:

https://chessdb.cn/queryc_en

It is an online chess opening explorer.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

[towforce]

Hello:

Can someone explain to me what the Chinese chess database is, please (or at least provide a link)? I've searched, but the results I'm getting back are databases of "Chinese Chess" games - and IIRC "Chinese Chess" is a different game from "Chess".

[...]

Try this link:

https://chessdb.cn/queryc_en

It is an online chess opening explorer.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

Excellent - that's really good! Also appears to have 9 Tb endgame tablebase. Thanks very much!