SF 10 was before NNUE, but SF NNUE would not have switched to HCE because of 4 knights each.Eelco de Groot wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:23 amI think Stockfish 10 was not yet NNUE but human tuned HCE but I did not check, anyway with four knights each, any Stockfish would have switched to HCE back then even if it had NNUE.
Another way to avoid all opening theory...
Moderator: Ras
-
syzygy
- Posts: 5801
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:56 pm
Re: Another way to avoid all opening theory...
-
CornfedForever
- Posts: 650
- Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:08 am
- Full name: Brian D. Smith
Re: Another way to avoid all opening theory...
I'm guessing that 99. 9% of all engine games are against other engines or tests vs another engine, isn't the logical thing to either"
A. Do away with any opening or endgame assistance
or
B. Do away with tablebases...and SEVERELY limit openings to maybe the most basic defining characteristics to give varietey. ex: 1. e4 c5, 2.Nf3 or 2.Nc3 or 2.f4 or 2.c3 etc You might add another move for some openings - but you keep it VERY short.
I can see so much to recommend "B". Heck, engines are so good...why on earth do people feel the need to help them in competition on the front end (opening books) and back end (tablebases)....makes no sense.
In tournaments and (possibly)testing one might even consider giving a black win something like 1.2 or 1.5 pts and thus reward black for being able to 'buck the logical white edge of the first move'.
A. Do away with any opening or endgame assistance
or
B. Do away with tablebases...and SEVERELY limit openings to maybe the most basic defining characteristics to give varietey. ex: 1. e4 c5, 2.Nf3 or 2.Nc3 or 2.f4 or 2.c3 etc You might add another move for some openings - but you keep it VERY short.
I can see so much to recommend "B". Heck, engines are so good...why on earth do people feel the need to help them in competition on the front end (opening books) and back end (tablebases)....makes no sense.
In tournaments and (possibly)testing one might even consider giving a black win something like 1.2 or 1.5 pts and thus reward black for being able to 'buck the logical white edge of the first move'.
-
Uri Blass
- Posts: 11073
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
- Location: Tel-Aviv Israel
Re: Another way to avoid all opening theory...
The problem of stockfish NNUE is in to find increasing scores in unbalanced positions.
Even when black is without queen and 2 rooks I do not see increasing evaluation with latest developement version that suggest that it is not some type of fortress(at least it can find e4 after a long time but the main line start with the stupid second move of white 2.d3 and the score is still less than +14 after some hours of search when it was more than +14 from iteration 3(Na3 as best move at the first iterations is also strange).
I believe that after
1.e4 e6 the move 2.d4 is more logical in order to mate faster.
FEN: 1nb1kbn1/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQ - 0 1
Stockfish_23082406_x64_avx2:
NNUE evaluation using nn-c38c3d8d3920.nnue
1/1 00:00 143 72k +11.99 Nb1-a3
2/2 00:00 343 172k +11.99 Nb1-a3
3/3 00:00 576 288k +14.48 Nb1-a3 d7-d6
4/4 00:00 655 328k +14.46 Nb1-a3 d7-d5
5/3 00:00 751 376k +14.64 Nb1-a3 d7-d5 c2-c3
6/4 00:00 1k 552k +14.40 Nb1-a3 e7-e6 Na3-b5
7/6 00:00 2k 778k +14.62 Nb1-a3 e7-e6 Na3-b5
8/6 00:00 2k 1,052k +14.01 Nb1-a3 e7-e6 Na3-c4 b7-b5
9/8 00:00 5k 1,752k +14.64 Nb1-a3 d7-d5 c2-c3
10/9 00:00 10k 2,478k +14.34 Nb1-a3 e7-e6 Na3-b5 d7-d5 d2-d4 Bf8-b4+ c2-c3
11/11 00:00 21k 3,505k +14.49 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 d7-d5 Ng1-f3
12/11 00:00 53k 4,108k +14.32 Nb1-c3 e7-e6 e2-e3 d7-d5 a2-a3 Bc8-d7
13/14 00:00 188k 4,828k +13.81 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 e7-e6 a2-a3 c7-c5 Bc1-f4 Bc8-d7 Bf4xb8 c5xd4 Nc3xd5
14/15 00:00 377k 4,658k +13.60 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 Nc3-b5 Bc8-d7 Nb5-a3
15/20 00:00 577k 4,766k +13.43 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 e7-e5 a2-a3 e5xd4 Nc3xd5 Nb8-a6 e2-e4 c7-c6 Bf1xa6 b7xa6 Nd5-c7+ Ke8-d7 Bc1-f4 Bf8-d6 Bf4xd6 Kd7xd6
16/21 00:00 861k 4,757k +13.49 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 e7-e5 a2-a3 e5xd4 Nc3xd5 Nb8-a6 e2-e4 c7-c6 Bf1xa6 b7xa6 Nd5-c7+ Ke8-d8 Bc1-f4 Ng8-f6
17/24 00:00 1,741k 4,809k +13.46 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 a2-a3 e7-e5 d2-d3 Ng8-f6 e2-e4 d5xe4 d3xe4 Bf8-e7 Ra1-b1 Nb8-c6 f2-f3 Ke8-f8
18/24 00:00 3,423k 4,919k +13.46 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 f2-f3 Nb8-c6 e2-e3 e7-e5 d4xe5 Nc6xe5 a2-a3 Bf8-e7 Ra1-a2 Ne5xf3+ Ng1xf3 Nf6-e4
19/22 00:00 4,299k 4,919k +13.42 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 e7-e5 a2-a3 c7-c6 e2-e3 Ng8-f6 Qd1-e2 Nf6-e4 Nc3-d1 Bc8-g4 f2-f3 Bg4xf3 Ng1xf3
20/27 00:01 8,376k 4,939k +13.36 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 f2-f3 Nb8-c6 a2-a3 Nc6xd4 Qd1xd4 Bc8-d7 Qd4xa7 e7-e6 Qa7-b8+ Ke8-e7 Qb8xc7 Ke7-e8
21/26 00:01 8,995k 4,907k +13.38 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 a2-a3 Nf6-e4 Nc3xd5 c7-c6 Nd5-c7+ Ke8-d8 f2-f3 Ne4-d6 c2-c4 Kd8xc7 c4-c5 Nd6-c4 e2-e4 Nc4xb2 Bc1-f4+ e7-e5 Bf4xe5+ Kc7-d8
22/32 00:03 19,089k 4,814k +13.40 a2-a3 d7-d5 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 c7-c6 f2-f3 e7-e6 Ra1-a2 Bf8-e7 e2-e3 e6-e5 Qd1-e2 e5-e4 f3-f4 b7-b5 Qe2-f2
23/28 00:04 22,904k 4,784k +13.59 a2-a3 e7-e5 e2-e4 Bf8-c5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 d2-d3 d7-d6 h2-h3 Bc5-d4 Ra1-b1 Bc8-e6 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Rh1-g1 Bd4xf2+ Ke1xf2
24/37 00:06 31,359k 4,783k +13.53 a2-a3 e7-e5 e2-e4 Bf8-c5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 d2-d3 d7-d6 f2-f3 Nb8-c6 Ra1-b1 a7-a6 Qd1-d2 b7-b5 b2-b4 Bc5-b6 Nc3-d1 h7-h5 c2-c4 Bb6xg1 Rh1xg1 h5-h4 Rb1-b2 b5xc4 d3xc4
25/35 00:07 33,425k 4,770k +13.63 a2-a3 e7-e5 e2-e4 Bf8-c5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 d2-d3 d7-d5 e4xd5 Nf6-g4 Ng1-h3 Ng4-f6 Qd1-e2 Bc8-g4 f2-f3 Bg4xh3
26/34 00:07 35,939k 4,760k +13.61 a2-a3 e7-e5 e2-e4 Bf8-c5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 d2-d3 d7-d6 f2-f3 h7-h5 b2-b4 Bc5-b6 Ra1-b1 Nb8-c6 b4-b5 Bb6-a5 Bc1-d2 Nc6-e7 Ng1-e2 h5-h4 Qd1-c1 Ba5xc3 Ne2xc3 Bc8-e6
27/34 00:09 43,649k 4,737k +13.59 a2-a3 e7-e5 e2-e4 Bf8-c5 Nb1-c3 d7-d6 d2-d3 Nb8-c6 Qd1-d2 Ng8-f6 Ra1-b1 Nf6-g4 Nc3-d1 f7-f5 b2-b4 Bc5-b6 c2-c3 f5xe4 Qd2-a2 Ng4xf2 Nd1xf2 Bb6xf2+ Ke1xf2 e4xd3 Qa2-g8+ Ke8-d7 Qg8xg7+ Nc6-e7 Bc1-g5
28/37 00:19 85,825k 4,435k +13.57 d2-d4 d7-d5 c2-c3 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 e7-e5 d4xe5 Nf6-d7 Nb1-d2 Nb8-c6 e2-e4 d5xe4 Nd2xe4 Nd7xe5 Nf3xe5 Nc6xe5 Qd1-e2 Bc8-g4 f2-f3 Bg4xf3 g2xf3 c7-c6 Ke1-d1
29/32 00:23 100,952k 4,363k +13.52 d2-d4 d7-d5 c2-c3 Ng8-f6 Nb1-d2 e7-e5 d4xe5 Nf6-g4 Ng1-h3 Ng4xe5 Nh3-f4 c7-c6 Nd2-b3 Bf8-e7 e2-e4 d5xe4 Nf4-h5 g7-g6 Nh5-g7+ Ke8-f8 Bc1-h6 Bc8-g4
30/37 00:29 127,340k 4,284k +13.57 d2-d4 d7-d5 c2-c3 Ng8-f6 Nb1-a3 e7-e5 d4xe5 Nf6-e4 Na3-c2 Nb8-c6 f2-f3 Bf8-e7 f3xe4 d5xe4 Bc1-f4 a7-a6 a2-a3 g7-g5 Bf4-e3 g5-g4 Be3-f4 e4-e3 Nc2xe3
31/41 00:46 194,265k 4,145k +13.45 d2-d4 d7-d5 Nb1-a3 Ng8-f6 c2-c3 Nb8-c6 Ng1-f3 a7-a6 Na3-c2 Bc8-g4 a2-a3 Bg4xf3 e2xf3 e7-e6 b2-b4 Bf8-e7 Ra1-a2 Ke8-d8 Bf1-e2 g7-g5 g2-g3 h7-h6 Ra2-b2 Nc6-a7 a3-a4
32/49 01:06 271,304k 4,060k +13.65 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 Bc8-f5 c2-c3 Nf6xd5 Ng1-f3 e7-e6 Nb1-d2 Bf8-e7 a2-a3 Nd5-f6 Ra1-a2 c7-c6 Qd1-e2 Nf6-g4 Nd2-c4 Ng4xf2 Qe2xf2 Bf5-b1 Ra2-a1 Bb1-f5 Bc1-f4 Nb8-d7 Ra1-d1 Nd7-b6 Nc4-d6+ Be7xd6
33/46 01:24 338,135k 4,004k +13.57 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 Bc8-f5 a2-a3 e7-e6 d5xe6 f7xe6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-e7 Ng1-f3 a7-a6 Bf1-e2 Nf6-e4 Nc3xe4 Bf5xe4 Bc1-e3 Nb8-d7 O-O Nd7-f6 Rf1-e1 Be7-d6 c2-c4
34/53 02:03 484,092k 3,920k +13.55 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 Bc8-f5 c2-c4 e7-e5 a2-a3 e5xd4 Nb1-d2 d4-d3 Nd2-b3 Ke8-d8 Ng1-f3 Bf5-g4 Bf1xd3 Bg4xf3 Qd1xf3 Bf8-d6 Ke1-f1 Bd6-e5 Bc1-d2
35/53 02:28 576,963k 3,877k +13.67 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 Bc8-f5 a2-a3 e7-e6 c2-c4 c7-c5 Nb1-c3 c5xd4 Qd1xd4 Bf8-e7 Ng1-f3 Nf6-g4 Qd4xa7 Nb8-d7 Qa7-a8+ Be7-d8 c4-c5 Ng4xf2 Qa8-a4 Nf2-d3+ Bf1xd3 Bf5xd3 Bc1-e3 Bd8-f6 O-O-O Bf6xc3 Rd1xd3
36/54 03:42 824,010k 3,700k +13.63 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 Bc8-f5 Qd1-e2 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 Ke8-d8 d5xe6 f7xe6 a2-a3 Bf5-g4 d2-d4 Nb8-c6 Bc1-e3 Nc6-e7 Ra1-d1 Ne7-d5 Be3-d2 Bf8-d6 Nc3-a4 Bd6-f4 Bd2xf4 Nd5xf4 Qe2-e3 Bg4xf3
37/59 05:08 1,117,924k 3,629k +13.69 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 Bc8-f5 Qd1-e2 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 Ke8-d8 d5xe6 f7xe6 a2-a3 Bf5-g4 d2-d4 Nb8-c6 h2-h3 Bg4xf3 Qe2xf3 h7-h6 Bc1-e3 Bf8-d6 Bf1-d3 a7-a6 Qf3-d1 Nc6-e7 Ke1-f1 Nf6-d5 Qd1-f3 Nd5xe3+ Qf3xe3 Bd6xa3 b2xa3 Ne7-d5 Nc3xd5 e6xd5
38/56 06:07 1,323,260k 3,598k +13.60 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 Bc8-f5 Ng1-f3 Nf6xd5 a2-a3 e7-e6 c2-c4 Nd5-f6 Nb1-c3 Nf6-e4 Ra1-a2 Ne4xc3 b2xc3 Nb8-d7 c4-c5 c7-c6 Rh1-g1 Bf8-e7 g2-g4 Bf5-g6 Ra2-b2 b7-b5 Rg1-g3 h7-h6 Rg3-h3 a7-a6 a3-a4 Be7-f6 Nf3-g1 h6-h5 g4-g5 Bf6-e7 f2-f4 Nd7xc5 a4xb5 a6xb5 Rb2-a2 Nc5-e4
39/59 09:38 2,025,793k 3,502k +13.78 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 Bc8-f5 a2-a3 c7-c6 Bc1-f4 Nb8-d7 d5xc6 b7xc6 Nb1-c3 Nf6-d5 Bf4-d2 e7-e6 Nc3-e2 Nd5-f6 Bd2-a5 Nf6-e4 Ne2-g3 Ne4xg3 h2xg3 Bf8-d6 c2-c4 Bf5-g6 Ng1-f3 Nd7-f6 c4-c5 Bg6-e4
40/60 14:13 2,904,383k 3,404k +13.67 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 e7-e6 d5xe6 Bc8xe6 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-e7 a2-a3 Ke8-f8 Ng1-f3 Kf8-g8 Bf1-e2 h7-h6 Ra1-b1 Nf6-d5 Be2-d3 c7-c5 Nc3-e2 Nb8-c6 d4xc5 Be7xc5 Ke1-f1 Nd5-b4 a3xb4 Nc6xb4 Bc1-d2 Nb4xd3 c2xd3 Be6-f5 Rb1-c1 Bf5xd3 Rc1xc5 b7-b6 Rc5-c3
41/57 24:05 4,635,735k 3,207k +13.60 e2-e4 e7-e5 d2-d3 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-c5 Bc1-d2 d7-d6 h2-h3 Bc5-b4 g2-g4 h7-h6 Ra1-c1 c6-c5 f2-f3 Nb8-c6 Ke1-f2 Nc6-d4 Rh1-h2 Bc8-d7 Kf2-e1 Bb4-a5 a2-a3 g7-g5 Bd2-e3 b7-b6 Be3-d2 Ba5xc3 b2xc3 Nd4-e6 h3-h4 Nf6-g8 h4xg5 h6xg5
42/55 27:02 5,158,293k 3,179k +13.70 e2-e4 e7-e5 d2-d3 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-c5 a2-a3 d7-d5 e4xd5 c6xd5 c4xd5 Bc8-d7 Ng1-e2 Nf6-g4 d3-d4 e5xd4 Ne2xd4 Ke8-f8 b2-b4 Bc5-b6 Ra1-a2 Kf8-g8 f2-f3 a7-a5 d5-d6 Bb6xd4 Qd1xd4 Bd7-e6 Ra2-b2 Nb8-d7
43/65 30:44 5,800,956k 3,145k +13.71 e2-e4 e7-e5 d2-d3 c7-c6 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-c5 Bc1-d2 d7-d6 h2-h3 Bc5-b4 Ng1-e2 Bb4xc3 Ne2xc3 c6-c5 Bd2-e3 Nb8-c6 Ra1-b1 Ke8-e7 a2-a3 h7-h6 b2-b4 c5xb4 a3xb4 a7-a6 Qd1-c1 Bc8-e6 Rh1-g1 Nc6-d4 c4-c5 d6xc5 b4xc5 Be6-b3 Rb1-b2 a6-a5 c5-c6 b7xc6
44/60 32:00 6,020,270k 3,134k +13.67 e2-e4 e7-e5 d2-d3 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-c5 Bc1-d2 Bc5-d4 Ra1-c1 d7-d6 h2-h3 c6-c5 g2-g3 Nb8-c6 Rh1-h2 h7-h6 Nc3-a4 Bc8-d7 a2-a3 g7-g5 Bf1-e2 Ke8-f8 Ke1-f1 Bd7-e6 b2-b4 Kf8-g7 b4-b5 Nc6-e7 Na4-c3 Bd4xc3 Bd2xc3 b7-b6
45/67 44:13 8,195,098k 3,089k +13.56 e2-e4 e7-e6 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 d2-d3 Nb8-c6 h2-h4 d7-d5 e4xd5 e6xd5 Nc3xd5 Bf8-d6 c2-c3 h7-h6 Nd5-e3 Ke8-f8 h4-h5 Ng8-e7 Bf1-e2 Ne7-f5 Ne3-f1 Kf8-g8 Bc1-d2 Bc8-e6 Rh1-h3 Be6-d5 g2-g4 Bd5-g2 g4xf5 Bg2xh3 Ng1xh3 c5-c4 d3-d4 Nc6xd4
46/60 48:10 8,889,941k 3,075k +13.62 e2-e4 e7-e6 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 d2-d3 Nb8-c6 h2-h4 d7-d5 e4xd5 e6xd5 Nc3xd5 Bf8-d6 c2-c3 h7-h6 Nd5-e3 Ke8-f8 h4-h5 Ng8-e7 Bf1-e2 Ne7-f5 Ne3-f1 Kf8-g8 Bc1-d2 Bc8-e6 Rh1-h3 Kg8-h7 Ra1-c1 Be6-d7 g2-g4 Nf5-e7 d3-d4 c5xd4 c3xd4 Nc6xd4 Rh3-d3 Nd4xe2 Qd1xe2 Bd7-b5
47/68 54:32 10,063,569k 3,075k +13.68 e2-e4 e7-e6 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 d2-d3 Nb8-c6 h2-h4 Bf8-e7 g2-g4 d7-d5 a2-a3 d5-d4 Nc3-e2 Ng8-f6 g4-g5 Nf6-g4 Ra1-b1 f7-f5 Bf1-g2 Bc8-d7 Rh1-h3 Be7-d6 e4xf5 Nc6-e7 f5xe6 Bd7xe6 Bc1-f4 Ng4-e5 Rh3-g3 Ne7-f5 c2-c3 c5-c4 d3xc4 Nf5xh4 Bg2-e4 Be6xc4 Ne2xd4
48/62 1:06:27 12,063,480k 3,026k +13.65 e2-e4 e7-e6 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 d2-d3 Bf8-e7 g2-g4 d7-d5 a2-a3 Nb8-c6 h2-h4 d5-d4 Nc3-e2 Ng8-f6 Ne2-g3 g7-g6 g4-g5 Nf6-h5 Ng3xh5 g6xh5 f2-f4 b7-b5 Rh1-h3 c5-c4 d3xc4 b5xc4 Bf1xc4 Ke8-f8 Rh3-b3 Nc6-a5 Qd1xd4 Kf8-g8 Rb3-b8 Na5xc4 Rb8xc8+ Be7-f8 Rc8xc4 e6-e5 Qd4xe5
49/70 1:37:45 17,548,058k 2,992k +13.58 e2-e4 e7-e6 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 d2-d3 Nb8-c6 h2-h4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Nc6-d4 d5xe6 Bc8xe6 Nc3-e2 Bf8-d6 Ne2-f4 Be6-d7 c2-c3 Nd4-c6 Nf4-d5 Ke8-f8 h4-h5 h7-h6 Bf1-e2 Ng8-f6 Bc1-f4 Bd6xf4 Nd5xf4 Kf8-g8 Ra1-c1 Nc6-e7 d3-d4 c5xd4 Qd1xd4 Bd7-g4 Qd4-d8+ Kg8-h7 Be2xg4 Nf6xg4 Qd8xe7
50/66 2:49:13 29,703,813k 2,926k +13.62 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d3 d7-d5 c2-c3 d5xe4 d3xe4 Nb8-c6 Nb1-d2 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 e6-e5 a2-a4 Bf8-e7 Bf1-c4 Nc6-a5 Bc4-b5+ Ke8-f8 b2-b4 Na5-c6 Bb5-c4 Bc8-g4 Ke1-f1 h7-h6 h2-h3 Bg4xf3 Qd1xf3 Kf8-g8 Bc4-d3 Be7xb4 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Ra1-a3 b7-b5 a4xb5 Nb4xd3 Ra3xd3 c7-c5 b5xc6/ep Kg8-h7 Nd2-c4
51/53 2:52:53 30,380,410k 2,929k +13.60 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d3 d7-d5 c2-c3 Bf8-e7 Ng1-f3 d5xe4 d3xe4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-d2 Nb8-c6 a2-a4 e6-e5 Bf1-c4 Nc6-a5 Bc4-b5+ Ke8-f8 b2-b4 Na5-c6 Bb5-c4 Kf8-g8 Ra1-a2 Bc8-g4 Qd1-b3 Nc6-d8 Qb3-c2 Nd8-c6 Ra2-b2 Bg4xf3 Nd2xf3 h7-h6 g2-g3 a7-a6 Qc2-e2 Be7xb4 c3xb4 Nc6-d4 Nf3xd4 e5xd4
52/65 3:09:08 33,212,700k 2,927k +13.62 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d3 d7-d5 c2-c3 Bf8-e7 Ng1-f3 d5xe4 d3xe4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-d2 Nb8-c6 a2-a4 e6-e5 Bf1-c4 a7-a6 h2-h3 h7-h6 Qd1-e2 Ke8-f8 b2-b4 Kf8-g8 Ra1-a2 Be7xb4 c3xb4 b7-b5 Bc4xf7+ Kg8xf7 Ra2-a3 a6-a5 a4xb5 a5xb4 Ra3-d3 Kf7-g8 b5xc6 Kg8-h7 Nf3xe5 Bc8-a6 Qe2-e3 Ba6xd3 Ne5xd3 Kh7-h8
Even when black is without queen and 2 rooks I do not see increasing evaluation with latest developement version that suggest that it is not some type of fortress(at least it can find e4 after a long time but the main line start with the stupid second move of white 2.d3 and the score is still less than +14 after some hours of search when it was more than +14 from iteration 3(Na3 as best move at the first iterations is also strange).
I believe that after
1.e4 e6 the move 2.d4 is more logical in order to mate faster.
FEN: 1nb1kbn1/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQ - 0 1
Stockfish_23082406_x64_avx2:
NNUE evaluation using nn-c38c3d8d3920.nnue
1/1 00:00 143 72k +11.99 Nb1-a3
2/2 00:00 343 172k +11.99 Nb1-a3
3/3 00:00 576 288k +14.48 Nb1-a3 d7-d6
4/4 00:00 655 328k +14.46 Nb1-a3 d7-d5
5/3 00:00 751 376k +14.64 Nb1-a3 d7-d5 c2-c3
6/4 00:00 1k 552k +14.40 Nb1-a3 e7-e6 Na3-b5
7/6 00:00 2k 778k +14.62 Nb1-a3 e7-e6 Na3-b5
8/6 00:00 2k 1,052k +14.01 Nb1-a3 e7-e6 Na3-c4 b7-b5
9/8 00:00 5k 1,752k +14.64 Nb1-a3 d7-d5 c2-c3
10/9 00:00 10k 2,478k +14.34 Nb1-a3 e7-e6 Na3-b5 d7-d5 d2-d4 Bf8-b4+ c2-c3
11/11 00:00 21k 3,505k +14.49 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 d7-d5 Ng1-f3
12/11 00:00 53k 4,108k +14.32 Nb1-c3 e7-e6 e2-e3 d7-d5 a2-a3 Bc8-d7
13/14 00:00 188k 4,828k +13.81 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 e7-e6 a2-a3 c7-c5 Bc1-f4 Bc8-d7 Bf4xb8 c5xd4 Nc3xd5
14/15 00:00 377k 4,658k +13.60 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 Nc3-b5 Bc8-d7 Nb5-a3
15/20 00:00 577k 4,766k +13.43 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 e7-e5 a2-a3 e5xd4 Nc3xd5 Nb8-a6 e2-e4 c7-c6 Bf1xa6 b7xa6 Nd5-c7+ Ke8-d7 Bc1-f4 Bf8-d6 Bf4xd6 Kd7xd6
16/21 00:00 861k 4,757k +13.49 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 e7-e5 a2-a3 e5xd4 Nc3xd5 Nb8-a6 e2-e4 c7-c6 Bf1xa6 b7xa6 Nd5-c7+ Ke8-d8 Bc1-f4 Ng8-f6
17/24 00:00 1,741k 4,809k +13.46 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 a2-a3 e7-e5 d2-d3 Ng8-f6 e2-e4 d5xe4 d3xe4 Bf8-e7 Ra1-b1 Nb8-c6 f2-f3 Ke8-f8
18/24 00:00 3,423k 4,919k +13.46 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 f2-f3 Nb8-c6 e2-e3 e7-e5 d4xe5 Nc6xe5 a2-a3 Bf8-e7 Ra1-a2 Ne5xf3+ Ng1xf3 Nf6-e4
19/22 00:00 4,299k 4,919k +13.42 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 e7-e5 a2-a3 c7-c6 e2-e3 Ng8-f6 Qd1-e2 Nf6-e4 Nc3-d1 Bc8-g4 f2-f3 Bg4xf3 Ng1xf3
20/27 00:01 8,376k 4,939k +13.36 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 f2-f3 Nb8-c6 a2-a3 Nc6xd4 Qd1xd4 Bc8-d7 Qd4xa7 e7-e6 Qa7-b8+ Ke8-e7 Qb8xc7 Ke7-e8
21/26 00:01 8,995k 4,907k +13.38 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 a2-a3 Nf6-e4 Nc3xd5 c7-c6 Nd5-c7+ Ke8-d8 f2-f3 Ne4-d6 c2-c4 Kd8xc7 c4-c5 Nd6-c4 e2-e4 Nc4xb2 Bc1-f4+ e7-e5 Bf4xe5+ Kc7-d8
22/32 00:03 19,089k 4,814k +13.40 a2-a3 d7-d5 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 c7-c6 f2-f3 e7-e6 Ra1-a2 Bf8-e7 e2-e3 e6-e5 Qd1-e2 e5-e4 f3-f4 b7-b5 Qe2-f2
23/28 00:04 22,904k 4,784k +13.59 a2-a3 e7-e5 e2-e4 Bf8-c5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 d2-d3 d7-d6 h2-h3 Bc5-d4 Ra1-b1 Bc8-e6 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Rh1-g1 Bd4xf2+ Ke1xf2
24/37 00:06 31,359k 4,783k +13.53 a2-a3 e7-e5 e2-e4 Bf8-c5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 d2-d3 d7-d6 f2-f3 Nb8-c6 Ra1-b1 a7-a6 Qd1-d2 b7-b5 b2-b4 Bc5-b6 Nc3-d1 h7-h5 c2-c4 Bb6xg1 Rh1xg1 h5-h4 Rb1-b2 b5xc4 d3xc4
25/35 00:07 33,425k 4,770k +13.63 a2-a3 e7-e5 e2-e4 Bf8-c5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 d2-d3 d7-d5 e4xd5 Nf6-g4 Ng1-h3 Ng4-f6 Qd1-e2 Bc8-g4 f2-f3 Bg4xh3
26/34 00:07 35,939k 4,760k +13.61 a2-a3 e7-e5 e2-e4 Bf8-c5 Nb1-c3 Ng8-f6 d2-d3 d7-d6 f2-f3 h7-h5 b2-b4 Bc5-b6 Ra1-b1 Nb8-c6 b4-b5 Bb6-a5 Bc1-d2 Nc6-e7 Ng1-e2 h5-h4 Qd1-c1 Ba5xc3 Ne2xc3 Bc8-e6
27/34 00:09 43,649k 4,737k +13.59 a2-a3 e7-e5 e2-e4 Bf8-c5 Nb1-c3 d7-d6 d2-d3 Nb8-c6 Qd1-d2 Ng8-f6 Ra1-b1 Nf6-g4 Nc3-d1 f7-f5 b2-b4 Bc5-b6 c2-c3 f5xe4 Qd2-a2 Ng4xf2 Nd1xf2 Bb6xf2+ Ke1xf2 e4xd3 Qa2-g8+ Ke8-d7 Qg8xg7+ Nc6-e7 Bc1-g5
28/37 00:19 85,825k 4,435k +13.57 d2-d4 d7-d5 c2-c3 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 e7-e5 d4xe5 Nf6-d7 Nb1-d2 Nb8-c6 e2-e4 d5xe4 Nd2xe4 Nd7xe5 Nf3xe5 Nc6xe5 Qd1-e2 Bc8-g4 f2-f3 Bg4xf3 g2xf3 c7-c6 Ke1-d1
29/32 00:23 100,952k 4,363k +13.52 d2-d4 d7-d5 c2-c3 Ng8-f6 Nb1-d2 e7-e5 d4xe5 Nf6-g4 Ng1-h3 Ng4xe5 Nh3-f4 c7-c6 Nd2-b3 Bf8-e7 e2-e4 d5xe4 Nf4-h5 g7-g6 Nh5-g7+ Ke8-f8 Bc1-h6 Bc8-g4
30/37 00:29 127,340k 4,284k +13.57 d2-d4 d7-d5 c2-c3 Ng8-f6 Nb1-a3 e7-e5 d4xe5 Nf6-e4 Na3-c2 Nb8-c6 f2-f3 Bf8-e7 f3xe4 d5xe4 Bc1-f4 a7-a6 a2-a3 g7-g5 Bf4-e3 g5-g4 Be3-f4 e4-e3 Nc2xe3
31/41 00:46 194,265k 4,145k +13.45 d2-d4 d7-d5 Nb1-a3 Ng8-f6 c2-c3 Nb8-c6 Ng1-f3 a7-a6 Na3-c2 Bc8-g4 a2-a3 Bg4xf3 e2xf3 e7-e6 b2-b4 Bf8-e7 Ra1-a2 Ke8-d8 Bf1-e2 g7-g5 g2-g3 h7-h6 Ra2-b2 Nc6-a7 a3-a4
32/49 01:06 271,304k 4,060k +13.65 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 Bc8-f5 c2-c3 Nf6xd5 Ng1-f3 e7-e6 Nb1-d2 Bf8-e7 a2-a3 Nd5-f6 Ra1-a2 c7-c6 Qd1-e2 Nf6-g4 Nd2-c4 Ng4xf2 Qe2xf2 Bf5-b1 Ra2-a1 Bb1-f5 Bc1-f4 Nb8-d7 Ra1-d1 Nd7-b6 Nc4-d6+ Be7xd6
33/46 01:24 338,135k 4,004k +13.57 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 Bc8-f5 a2-a3 e7-e6 d5xe6 f7xe6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-e7 Ng1-f3 a7-a6 Bf1-e2 Nf6-e4 Nc3xe4 Bf5xe4 Bc1-e3 Nb8-d7 O-O Nd7-f6 Rf1-e1 Be7-d6 c2-c4
34/53 02:03 484,092k 3,920k +13.55 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 Bc8-f5 c2-c4 e7-e5 a2-a3 e5xd4 Nb1-d2 d4-d3 Nd2-b3 Ke8-d8 Ng1-f3 Bf5-g4 Bf1xd3 Bg4xf3 Qd1xf3 Bf8-d6 Ke1-f1 Bd6-e5 Bc1-d2
35/53 02:28 576,963k 3,877k +13.67 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 Bc8-f5 a2-a3 e7-e6 c2-c4 c7-c5 Nb1-c3 c5xd4 Qd1xd4 Bf8-e7 Ng1-f3 Nf6-g4 Qd4xa7 Nb8-d7 Qa7-a8+ Be7-d8 c4-c5 Ng4xf2 Qa8-a4 Nf2-d3+ Bf1xd3 Bf5xd3 Bc1-e3 Bd8-f6 O-O-O Bf6xc3 Rd1xd3
36/54 03:42 824,010k 3,700k +13.63 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 Bc8-f5 Qd1-e2 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 Ke8-d8 d5xe6 f7xe6 a2-a3 Bf5-g4 d2-d4 Nb8-c6 Bc1-e3 Nc6-e7 Ra1-d1 Ne7-d5 Be3-d2 Bf8-d6 Nc3-a4 Bd6-f4 Bd2xf4 Nd5xf4 Qe2-e3 Bg4xf3
37/59 05:08 1,117,924k 3,629k +13.69 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 Bc8-f5 Qd1-e2 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 Ke8-d8 d5xe6 f7xe6 a2-a3 Bf5-g4 d2-d4 Nb8-c6 h2-h3 Bg4xf3 Qe2xf3 h7-h6 Bc1-e3 Bf8-d6 Bf1-d3 a7-a6 Qf3-d1 Nc6-e7 Ke1-f1 Nf6-d5 Qd1-f3 Nd5xe3+ Qf3xe3 Bd6xa3 b2xa3 Ne7-d5 Nc3xd5 e6xd5
38/56 06:07 1,323,260k 3,598k +13.60 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 Bc8-f5 Ng1-f3 Nf6xd5 a2-a3 e7-e6 c2-c4 Nd5-f6 Nb1-c3 Nf6-e4 Ra1-a2 Ne4xc3 b2xc3 Nb8-d7 c4-c5 c7-c6 Rh1-g1 Bf8-e7 g2-g4 Bf5-g6 Ra2-b2 b7-b5 Rg1-g3 h7-h6 Rg3-h3 a7-a6 a3-a4 Be7-f6 Nf3-g1 h6-h5 g4-g5 Bf6-e7 f2-f4 Nd7xc5 a4xb5 a6xb5 Rb2-a2 Nc5-e4
39/59 09:38 2,025,793k 3,502k +13.78 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6 d2-d4 Bc8-f5 a2-a3 c7-c6 Bc1-f4 Nb8-d7 d5xc6 b7xc6 Nb1-c3 Nf6-d5 Bf4-d2 e7-e6 Nc3-e2 Nd5-f6 Bd2-a5 Nf6-e4 Ne2-g3 Ne4xg3 h2xg3 Bf8-d6 c2-c4 Bf5-g6 Ng1-f3 Nd7-f6 c4-c5 Bg6-e4
40/60 14:13 2,904,383k 3,404k +13.67 e2-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 e7-e6 d5xe6 Bc8xe6 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-e7 a2-a3 Ke8-f8 Ng1-f3 Kf8-g8 Bf1-e2 h7-h6 Ra1-b1 Nf6-d5 Be2-d3 c7-c5 Nc3-e2 Nb8-c6 d4xc5 Be7xc5 Ke1-f1 Nd5-b4 a3xb4 Nc6xb4 Bc1-d2 Nb4xd3 c2xd3 Be6-f5 Rb1-c1 Bf5xd3 Rc1xc5 b7-b6 Rc5-c3
41/57 24:05 4,635,735k 3,207k +13.60 e2-e4 e7-e5 d2-d3 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-c5 Bc1-d2 d7-d6 h2-h3 Bc5-b4 g2-g4 h7-h6 Ra1-c1 c6-c5 f2-f3 Nb8-c6 Ke1-f2 Nc6-d4 Rh1-h2 Bc8-d7 Kf2-e1 Bb4-a5 a2-a3 g7-g5 Bd2-e3 b7-b6 Be3-d2 Ba5xc3 b2xc3 Nd4-e6 h3-h4 Nf6-g8 h4xg5 h6xg5
42/55 27:02 5,158,293k 3,179k +13.70 e2-e4 e7-e5 d2-d3 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-c5 a2-a3 d7-d5 e4xd5 c6xd5 c4xd5 Bc8-d7 Ng1-e2 Nf6-g4 d3-d4 e5xd4 Ne2xd4 Ke8-f8 b2-b4 Bc5-b6 Ra1-a2 Kf8-g8 f2-f3 a7-a5 d5-d6 Bb6xd4 Qd1xd4 Bd7-e6 Ra2-b2 Nb8-d7
43/65 30:44 5,800,956k 3,145k +13.71 e2-e4 e7-e5 d2-d3 c7-c6 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-c5 Bc1-d2 d7-d6 h2-h3 Bc5-b4 Ng1-e2 Bb4xc3 Ne2xc3 c6-c5 Bd2-e3 Nb8-c6 Ra1-b1 Ke8-e7 a2-a3 h7-h6 b2-b4 c5xb4 a3xb4 a7-a6 Qd1-c1 Bc8-e6 Rh1-g1 Nc6-d4 c4-c5 d6xc5 b4xc5 Be6-b3 Rb1-b2 a6-a5 c5-c6 b7xc6
44/60 32:00 6,020,270k 3,134k +13.67 e2-e4 e7-e5 d2-d3 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-c5 Bc1-d2 Bc5-d4 Ra1-c1 d7-d6 h2-h3 c6-c5 g2-g3 Nb8-c6 Rh1-h2 h7-h6 Nc3-a4 Bc8-d7 a2-a3 g7-g5 Bf1-e2 Ke8-f8 Ke1-f1 Bd7-e6 b2-b4 Kf8-g7 b4-b5 Nc6-e7 Na4-c3 Bd4xc3 Bd2xc3 b7-b6
45/67 44:13 8,195,098k 3,089k +13.56 e2-e4 e7-e6 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 d2-d3 Nb8-c6 h2-h4 d7-d5 e4xd5 e6xd5 Nc3xd5 Bf8-d6 c2-c3 h7-h6 Nd5-e3 Ke8-f8 h4-h5 Ng8-e7 Bf1-e2 Ne7-f5 Ne3-f1 Kf8-g8 Bc1-d2 Bc8-e6 Rh1-h3 Be6-d5 g2-g4 Bd5-g2 g4xf5 Bg2xh3 Ng1xh3 c5-c4 d3-d4 Nc6xd4
46/60 48:10 8,889,941k 3,075k +13.62 e2-e4 e7-e6 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 d2-d3 Nb8-c6 h2-h4 d7-d5 e4xd5 e6xd5 Nc3xd5 Bf8-d6 c2-c3 h7-h6 Nd5-e3 Ke8-f8 h4-h5 Ng8-e7 Bf1-e2 Ne7-f5 Ne3-f1 Kf8-g8 Bc1-d2 Bc8-e6 Rh1-h3 Kg8-h7 Ra1-c1 Be6-d7 g2-g4 Nf5-e7 d3-d4 c5xd4 c3xd4 Nc6xd4 Rh3-d3 Nd4xe2 Qd1xe2 Bd7-b5
47/68 54:32 10,063,569k 3,075k +13.68 e2-e4 e7-e6 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 d2-d3 Nb8-c6 h2-h4 Bf8-e7 g2-g4 d7-d5 a2-a3 d5-d4 Nc3-e2 Ng8-f6 g4-g5 Nf6-g4 Ra1-b1 f7-f5 Bf1-g2 Bc8-d7 Rh1-h3 Be7-d6 e4xf5 Nc6-e7 f5xe6 Bd7xe6 Bc1-f4 Ng4-e5 Rh3-g3 Ne7-f5 c2-c3 c5-c4 d3xc4 Nf5xh4 Bg2-e4 Be6xc4 Ne2xd4
48/62 1:06:27 12,063,480k 3,026k +13.65 e2-e4 e7-e6 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 d2-d3 Bf8-e7 g2-g4 d7-d5 a2-a3 Nb8-c6 h2-h4 d5-d4 Nc3-e2 Ng8-f6 Ne2-g3 g7-g6 g4-g5 Nf6-h5 Ng3xh5 g6xh5 f2-f4 b7-b5 Rh1-h3 c5-c4 d3xc4 b5xc4 Bf1xc4 Ke8-f8 Rh3-b3 Nc6-a5 Qd1xd4 Kf8-g8 Rb3-b8 Na5xc4 Rb8xc8+ Be7-f8 Rc8xc4 e6-e5 Qd4xe5
49/70 1:37:45 17,548,058k 2,992k +13.58 e2-e4 e7-e6 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 d2-d3 Nb8-c6 h2-h4 d7-d5 e4xd5 Nc6-d4 d5xe6 Bc8xe6 Nc3-e2 Bf8-d6 Ne2-f4 Be6-d7 c2-c3 Nd4-c6 Nf4-d5 Ke8-f8 h4-h5 h7-h6 Bf1-e2 Ng8-f6 Bc1-f4 Bd6xf4 Nd5xf4 Kf8-g8 Ra1-c1 Nc6-e7 d3-d4 c5xd4 Qd1xd4 Bd7-g4 Qd4-d8+ Kg8-h7 Be2xg4 Nf6xg4 Qd8xe7
50/66 2:49:13 29,703,813k 2,926k +13.62 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d3 d7-d5 c2-c3 d5xe4 d3xe4 Nb8-c6 Nb1-d2 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 e6-e5 a2-a4 Bf8-e7 Bf1-c4 Nc6-a5 Bc4-b5+ Ke8-f8 b2-b4 Na5-c6 Bb5-c4 Bc8-g4 Ke1-f1 h7-h6 h2-h3 Bg4xf3 Qd1xf3 Kf8-g8 Bc4-d3 Be7xb4 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Ra1-a3 b7-b5 a4xb5 Nb4xd3 Ra3xd3 c7-c5 b5xc6/ep Kg8-h7 Nd2-c4
51/53 2:52:53 30,380,410k 2,929k +13.60 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d3 d7-d5 c2-c3 Bf8-e7 Ng1-f3 d5xe4 d3xe4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-d2 Nb8-c6 a2-a4 e6-e5 Bf1-c4 Nc6-a5 Bc4-b5+ Ke8-f8 b2-b4 Na5-c6 Bb5-c4 Kf8-g8 Ra1-a2 Bc8-g4 Qd1-b3 Nc6-d8 Qb3-c2 Nd8-c6 Ra2-b2 Bg4xf3 Nd2xf3 h7-h6 g2-g3 a7-a6 Qc2-e2 Be7xb4 c3xb4 Nc6-d4 Nf3xd4 e5xd4
52/65 3:09:08 33,212,700k 2,927k +13.62 e2-e4 e7-e6 d2-d3 d7-d5 c2-c3 Bf8-e7 Ng1-f3 d5xe4 d3xe4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-d2 Nb8-c6 a2-a4 e6-e5 Bf1-c4 a7-a6 h2-h3 h7-h6 Qd1-e2 Ke8-f8 b2-b4 Kf8-g8 Ra1-a2 Be7xb4 c3xb4 b7-b5 Bc4xf7+ Kg8xf7 Ra2-a3 a6-a5 a4xb5 a5xb4 Ra3-d3 Kf7-g8 b5xc6 Kg8-h7 Nf3xe5 Bc8-a6 Qe2-e3 Ba6xd3 Ne5xd3 Kh7-h8