What should Robert do? (read post first before you vote)

[jd1]

What exactly should I be wanting to end? All this is forum gibberish, quite far removed from the reality of engine development and marketing.

Then what are you doing here ?

You have chosen to participate in a community who value honesty as a great good when it comes to engine origins. You have chosen to lie about the origin of Houdini. Your choice. Fine. But don't insult the forum members for having a problem with your dishonesty.

Honesty matters because you got the first 3000 elo for free and that in a competitive field of chess programmers who write their own stuff from the ground up. Naturally their question is deservedly, this is about COMPETITION and the right to know what they are competing.

If you don't like the conscience of this community go elsewhere.

What remains is the question why you've created a thread about a perceived but pretty much non-existing ethical problem, and not about the very real LEGAL problem that Richard's recent actions have created.

You are hypocritical now, it was me quoting EU law on which you greedily anticipated. Furthermore you are bluffing taking this to court, not worth the money and the stress involved. Furthermore Richard is quite popular and such an action will backfire on you. You are intelligent enough to realize this hence I call it a bluff on your end. Else the ChessBase folks will explain it to you how this wafer thin market segment works.

Exactly, couldn't have said it any better!

Jerry

[Darkmoon]

As I see it, accusations without providing evidence are worthless and when given the chance by the initiative of Sven (June 2010) Vas failed again what he should have done in the first place when he made the Ippolit claim 8 months earlier.

By his refusal to do so the claim lost its right, perhaps even on a juridical base. So Ippolit is freeware. Everybody is free to start from it. Julien as a lawyer might want to shed his light on this.

Sure! Actually, by waiting too much, Vas only lost a part of his rights (in my country anyway). Since 2007, patent or brand infringement has a three-years prescription (it was ten years before, but I guess we had to change it for EU conformity). But copyright infringement, business dishonesty ("concurrence déloyale") or brand infringement when the brand is notorious are prescribed by five years... starting with (and here the law changed) "the titular of the (infringed) right knew or should have known" the facts infringing his rights (Art. 2224, Fr. Civil code). (before it was "since the harm started"). Note that the judges would be less understanding with a "professional of the field" taking too long to act (because he has less excuses not to notice the harm done to his rights). So, for copyright infringement (code theft, here) Vas can still act until 2014. That is... if he has a case.

Regarding Houdini, and IF Houdini started from public domain code, Robert Houdart did nothing illegal. Ethically wrong by not acknowledging the sources base of his engine, yes, but not illegal. (But I take that your poll bears ethical grounds, not legal grounds, and I too think that Robert Houdart should not deny Houdini's origin.) In the other hand, Richard Vida most probably broke criminal laws, maybe business law if his legal opponent can prove he is a competitor in the economical meaning of the word, and probably contract law if he broke Houdini's license (this I can't be sure, because I don't own Houdini myself). So if Richard Vida asks for all Robodini threads to be removed we will probably do that. (We, btw, never delete anything: all the removed posts/threads are put into a non-public archive.)

(BTW, I'm not a lawyer, I'm a jurist and a law teacher.)

Wouldn't the same criteria governing, student film makers, where

"If you fail to obtain all the necessary clearances, waivers, rights and permissions" the work is limited to “classroom” screenings only. That precludes showing at any film festival, public screening and on network or cable television – as well as other public venues. "

I hate to bring this up- but, 'Robodini', perhaps should have remained private as should have (gulp) Rybka 1.6.1.(?)! Clearly Robert, wasn't contacted and permission wasn't granted for public release.

"In brief, you must have permission to use what belongs to someone else – that is – their likeness, their personal property and their intellectual property."

[Lavir]

Are you addicted to ad-hominems or what? You were mentioning a link in the Hyper Threading discussion, which was totally off topic for the current issue.

It was just a mention to the fact that you post links without either reading them and without understanding of what they talk about. HT had NOTHING to do with it, it was just used as a mention to make you understand the point.

It is very weird that you took offense to me posting a link to the manual page of the SetAffinityMask function when somone asks me how to set affinity. And that it upsets you so much that you still feel compelled to mention it one month later is positively unhealthy...

I didn't mention anything of this, and then for what it concerns this point it was ME that pointed the affinity mask and you said that it was nonsense because "logical processes don't exist in HT" (LOL).

Oh well...

You felt your arguments on the topic at hand were so weak you needed a little character assasination to back it up?

I didn't need anything of the sort since it was just a mention of a single sentence in a post very long. I've explained all the points well enough and you, in fact, had nothing to say about it as it is obvious by the fact that you STILL continue turning and switching.

Don't worry, I have no intent to take up the discussion about HT with you again.

Really? Then I must be having an hallucination here because it seems you just did it.... again.

As I said then, you seem so ignorant on the subject that it would just be a waste of my time!

Whatever you want. If you say so it must be real. Sadly (or better luckily) weak imagination and reality are two separate things.

Apart from bragging, you don't seem to be much good for anything. What are your acheivements here, if I may ask?

I'm a well known writer and painter in my country. I have a PhD in literature and arts, a thesis in philosophy that is discussed in the university of Florence, I am one of the best known people in esoteric circles and I have done so many things in my life that you would dream about doing. Is it that enough for your ego? [Oh and please don't say I'm bragging; you asked, I replied]

But apart all this, you yet again didn't reply to my question (a very simple and direct one) and talked of things completely off-topic.

Is it possible that you cannot admit that you were wrong?

[Lavir]

Honesty matters because you got the first 3000 elo for free and that in a competitive field of chess programmers who write their own stuff from the ground up.

LOL

Is that meant to be comic?

Oh my god... the hypocrisy is seriously high in this place.

I would like you (or anybody else) to mention me a program that is on top 10 that has not taken everything it could from Ippo/Robbo or anywhere else when needed (it is not just because you change the implementation that the thing is suddenly different; everybody can do that).

[mar]

Honesty matters because you got the first 3000 elo for free and that in a competitive field of chess programmers who write their own stuff from the ground up.

LOL

Is that meant to be comic?

You have already shown your talent. I'm not here to amuse clowns so this is my last attempt.

Oh my god... the hypocrisy is seriously high in this place.

I would like you (or anybody else) to mention me a program that is on top 10 that has not taken everything it could from Ippo/Robbo or anywhere else when needed (it is not just because you change the implementation that the thing is suddenly different; everybody can do that).

It's a huge difference to start at -inf elo vs 3000 elo. But it's pointless to try to explain to you as you obviously don't understand that.
The list: Stockfish, Komodo, Hiarcs, Chiron.

[JuLieN]

[moderation]

Please refrain from personal attacks and, in general, aggressiveness. We said in our MPS that we would moderate such behaviors, and we will. This forum is a nice place where peaceful and adult discussions can now take place.

So, to any it may concern, please tune down, cool down, and focus on the topic, not personal issues.

[/moderation]

[JuLieN]

The list: Stockfish, Komodo, Hiarcs, Chiron.

You meant...

The list: Stockfish, Komodo, Hiarcs, Chiron, Gaviota, (...), Cheng 3, EveAnn, (...), Prédateur, Moron.

[mar]

[moderation]

Please refrain from personal attacks and, in general, aggressiveness. We said in our MPS that we would moderate such behaviors, and we will. This forum is a nice place where peaceful and adult discussions can now take place.

So, to any it may concern, please tune down, cool down, and focus on the topic, not personal issues.

[/moderation]

I apologize. I better stay out of these threads.

[JuLieN]

[moderation]

Please refrain from personal attacks and, in general, aggressiveness. We said in our MPS that we would moderate such behaviors, and we will. This forum is a nice place where peaceful and adult discussions can now take place.

So, to any it may concern, please tune down, cool down, and focus on the topic, not personal issues.

[/moderation]

I apologize. I better stay out of these threads.

I wrote the moderation post while you were writing yours, Martin: it is only a coincidence it was posted right after yours.

Although it of course has a general application.

[Rebel]

Honesty matters because you got the first 3000 elo for free and that in a competitive field of chess programmers who write their own stuff from the ground up.

LOL

Is that meant to be comic?

Oh my god... the hypocrisy is seriously high in this place.

I would like you (or anybody else) to mention me a program that is on top 10 that has not taken everything it could from Ippo/Robbo or anywhere else when needed (it is not just because you change the implementation that the thing is suddenly different; everybody can do that).

Fabio, as a non chess programmer I realize that it must be hard to sense what it takes to write a 3000 elo chess program from the ground up. If I would have the energy to study Ippo and friends I surely can add 100 elo points to my existing one and it still would be far below 3000.

You seem to be under the impression that taking ideas from open sources magically puts you on top, that's not so. Don recently put it very well.

http://74.220.23.57/forum/viewtopic.php?p=505505#505505

What's far more easy to do is take a 3000 elo open source and add a few of your own (better) ideas to it and gain some 25-50-75 elo with ease. Thereafter things become much more complicated. The credit of Robert is that he added much more than that.

In this competitive field taking the first 3000 elo for free is essential and by denying it an author indirectly is claiming he wrote the first 3000 elo all by himself which is a lie. Robert's contribution to computer chess is about 200 elo, not 3200. That matters.