But for a developer 8 ELO might represent a month of work. So we are coming from different worlds here.Graham Banks wrote:That falls into my category of minimal.Don wrote:It is not a fallacy, believe me as developers we are 100% aware of the issues and it's not a couple of ELO but something like 7 or 8 ELO for us and 2 or 3 for Stockfish I think.......Graham Banks wrote:Do we?Don wrote:......We know for sure that SSE4.2 helps some programs very little and others a lot......
I think that this is a fallacy. It makes minimal difference from what I've seen.
Stockfish 4
Moderator: Ras
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Don
- Posts: 5106
- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:27 pm
Re: Stockfish 4
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.
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syzygy
- Posts: 5801
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:56 pm
Re: Stockfish 4
Haswell's pext and pdep instructions might be as important for computer chess (but I still haven't seen any benchmarks). At the moment not very relevant, but soon it will be.zamar wrote:I think that the intention of Stockfish Team and what makes most sense (Take a look at Makefile!) is to provide three binaries:
x64-with-popcnt
x64-without-popcnt
x32
(+ x32-legacy, but this is almost irrelevant as this is only for VERY old hardware)
I think this is the most reasonable compromise between simplicity and optimization. I dislike the idea of specialized versions for different hardwares, but because popcnt is so important in computer chess, it makes sense to do an exception in this area...
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bnemias
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- Location: Albuquerque, NM
Re: Stockfish 4
I agree wrt. stockfish. The devs have chosen very good alternative implementations when needed. All of this is automatically chosen during compile, although the proper settings generally have to be sent to the makefile.Graham Banks wrote:Do we?Don wrote:......We know for sure that SSE4.2 helps some programs very little and others a lot......
I think that this is a fallacy. It makes minimal difference from what I've seen.
Reminds me of the age long argument over the value of tablebases in adding ELO to ratings.
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Dr.Wael Deeb
- Posts: 9773
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- Location: Amman,Jordan
Re: Stockfish 4
Are you saying that Graham is coming from outer spaceDon wrote:But for a developer 8 ELO might represent a month of work. So we are coming from different worlds here.Graham Banks wrote:That falls into my category of minimal.Don wrote:It is not a fallacy, believe me as developers we are 100% aware of the issues and it's not a couple of ELO but something like 7 or 8 ELO for us and 2 or 3 for Stockfish I think.......Graham Banks wrote:Do we?Don wrote:......We know for sure that SSE4.2 helps some programs very little and others a lot......
I think that this is a fallacy. It makes minimal difference from what I've seen.
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
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Modern Times
- Posts: 3771
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:02 pm
Re: Stockfish 4
It isn't even 8 Elo - 7-3 =4 or to be generous, 8-2 = 6.
But I still don't buy it. I have not seen any proof that Komodo benefits more than any other engines from popcount. It would need a huge amount of games to measure that with say 95% certainty.
But I still don't buy it. I have not seen any proof that Komodo benefits more than any other engines from popcount. It would need a huge amount of games to measure that with say 95% certainty.
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Graham Banks
- Posts: 44990
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- Location: Auckland, NZ
Re: Stockfish 4
Nanoo nanoo.Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:Are you saying that Graham is coming from outer spaceDon wrote:But for a developer 8 ELO might represent a month of work. So we are coming from different worlds here.Graham Banks wrote:That falls into my category of minimal.Don wrote:It is not a fallacy, believe me as developers we are 100% aware of the issues and it's not a couple of ELO but something like 7 or 8 ELO for us and 2 or 3 for Stockfish I think.......Graham Banks wrote:Do we?Don wrote:......We know for sure that SSE4.2 helps some programs very little and others a lot......
I think that this is a fallacy. It makes minimal difference from what I've seen.
gbanksnz at gmail.com
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Dr.Wael Deeb
- Posts: 9773
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:44 pm
- Location: Amman,Jordan
Re: Stockfish 4
Graham Banks wrote:Nanoo nanoo.Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:Are you saying that Graham is coming from outer spaceDon wrote:But for a developer 8 ELO might represent a month of work. So we are coming from different worlds here.Graham Banks wrote:That falls into my category of minimal.Don wrote:It is not a fallacy, believe me as developers we are 100% aware of the issues and it's not a couple of ELO but something like 7 or 8 ELO for us and 2 or 3 for Stockfish I think.......Graham Banks wrote:Do we?Don wrote:......We know for sure that SSE4.2 helps some programs very little and others a lot......
I think that this is a fallacy. It makes minimal difference from what I've seen.
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
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pohl4711
- Posts: 2834
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:25 am
- Location: Berlin, Germany
- Full name: Stefan Pohl
Re: Stockfish 4
The result of Stockfish 4 x64s in the LS-ratinglist is now online.
http://ls-ratinglist.beepworld.de
Stefan
(Perhaps you have to clear your browsercache or reload the website)
http://ls-ratinglist.beepworld.de
Stefan
(Perhaps you have to clear your browsercache or reload the website)
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Don
- Posts: 5106
- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:27 pm
Re: Stockfish 4
Or maybe I am.Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:Are you saying that Graham is coming from outer spaceDon wrote:But for a developer 8 ELO might represent a month of work. So we are coming from different worlds here.Graham Banks wrote:That falls into my category of minimal.Don wrote:It is not a fallacy, believe me as developers we are 100% aware of the issues and it's not a couple of ELO but something like 7 or 8 ELO for us and 2 or 3 for Stockfish I think.......Graham Banks wrote:Do we?Don wrote:......We know for sure that SSE4.2 helps some programs very little and others a lot......
I think that this is a fallacy. It makes minimal difference from what I've seen.
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.
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Henk
- Posts: 7251
- Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:31 am
Re: Stockfish 4
Better not talk about the closed world assumption.Don wrote:Or maybe I am.Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:Are you saying that Graham is coming from outer spaceDon wrote:But for a developer 8 ELO might represent a month of work. So we are coming from different worlds here.Graham Banks wrote:That falls into my category of minimal.Don wrote:It is not a fallacy, believe me as developers we are 100% aware of the issues and it's not a couple of ELO but something like 7 or 8 ELO for us and 2 or 3 for Stockfish I think.......Graham Banks wrote:Do we?Don wrote:......We know for sure that SSE4.2 helps some programs very little and others a lot......
I think that this is a fallacy. It makes minimal difference from what I've seen.