Albert Silver wrote:Uri Blass wrote:Peter Skinner wrote:It is a clone. Do you honestly believe he took "ideas" from Ippolit, Crafty, Stockfish and wrote a 3200 engine from scratch in a few months?
Please tell me you aren't that blind to the fact of what Houdini is? If so, I have a hell of a deal on a bridge with a prime location in San Fransisco. Some would call it a "Golden" opportunity. Interested?
Peter
I do not believe that based on ideas from Ippolit,Crafty and stockfish he wrote a 3200 engine from scratch in a few months but we do not know when he started but only when he released the first version and these things may be different.
It is possible that he started some years ago to learn from crafty and from Glaurung and started to write his engine in 2006.
I do not claim that Houdini is not a derivative of Ippolit(I do not know) but you need a better argument to convince me that it is a derivative of Ippolit(I prefer the word derivative and not a clone when there is a clear strength improvement even if 99% of the code is the same).
Uri
Osipov declared it a clear Ippolit derivative, albeit with a number of changes especially at the eval level, after RE-ing it. Since you say you don't *know*, what do you sincerely *believe*? I ask because I find these declarations of not knowing because the person doesn't have irrefutable proof to be the most insincere cop-out there is. It is an excuse to look away even though the person actually believes one thing, but hides behind the "
don't know with irrefutable proof" declaration, which (no offense meant to you Uri) is pathetic.
Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt Houdart has put in a lot of work to achieve the improvements he did, which is another argument altogether, but I completely believe that he started with IPPO and that it is the foundation of 99% of its strength.
I have no doubt about what you are saying Albert. However, there is alot of evidence that Rybka was created the same way. The evidence clearly shows that Rybka 1.0 used alot of Fruit code. Then as time went on Rybka evolved and much changed.So we could use this same arguement, and say Rybka can be considered a Fruit derivative. The point being, it seems the way that Rybka and Houndini were given life are the same. Both used code and ideas from another engine(s).
However, there is a huge difference! Robert was honest and forthcoming with the origins of Houdini, explaining that he used other engines and their ideas. On the contrary, in his interview, when Vas was asked if Fruit played any role in the creation of Rybka , he answered clearly, NO! ( not verbatim). This of course is, "bullshit", and says lots about the man. Only after the BB report and Zak's report surfaced did he change his tune about parts of Fruit being used.
So with time one could postulate that Houndini will also evolve and be far more original. What most poeple have forgotten is this is about computer "CHESS", the emphasis on chess. And setting origins aside, and looking at the results of CHESS, Houndini is wiping his ass, with all the rest.
Paranoid
