ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

[APassionForCriminalJustic]

Kommodo 9 @ICGA but not Stockfish? How exciting... What do you think who will win?

Well, with the format of this tournament (1 game elimination), you never know. With a stroke of luck, maybe Pandix or Merlin could defeat Komodo. LOL.

One-game elimination? This tournament is sad. They make the computer-chess community look stupid.

As was pointed out above this was another misrepresentation by Lucas.

Yes I did just notice this.

[Gurcan Uckardes]

Another very interesting thread. ICGA is one my favorite discussion subjects like Rybka. Please write more and more.

[Ferdy]

Another very interesting thread. ICGA is one my favorite discussion subjects like Rybka. Please write more and more.

Nahh Rapidroid list is much better than icga and rybka combined .

[Peter Berger]

This is much less obvious to me than it is to you.

If i had to design a tournament strategy for Junior in an imminent ICGA event in case Stockfish participated I'd think of a draw in our game as a *very* desirable result, and in case this was achieved we would have to see who is able to score better against the opposition. I'd try to prepare a very drawish opening book against Stockfish and try as hard as I can to win every other game.

Stockfish would likely draw some other game too against one of the weaker opponents ( just as it doesn't try too hard to win in general) , and so it could be outdone.

Would Stockfish still be the favourite to win the tournament? It would be indeed IMHO. But it still is a chess entity with apparemt weaknesses despite its enourmous playing strength, and as it isn't aware of them ( yet ??) - they could also be used against it IMHO.

Anyway - as all of this is clearly none of my business I'll not engage in this dicussion further

Peter over and out.

[lucasart]

[quote="Michel"][quote="APassionForCriminalJustic"][quote="lucasart"][quote="Ralph Stoesser"]Kommodo 9 @ICGA but not Stockfish? How exciting... What do you think who will win? [/quote]
Well, with the format of this tournament (1 game elimination), you never know. With a stroke of luck, maybe Pandix or Merlin could defeat Komodo. LOL.[/quote]

One-game elimination? This tournament is sad. They make the computer-chess community look stupid.[/quote]

As was pointed out above this was another misrepresentation by Lucas.[/quote]
Ok. It's not as bad as I thought. But the format of the tournament is still a joke. Example in 2013:
* firstly people have to go to Japan for a week. That's a selection factor in itself, clearly aimed at favoring commercial engines (those desperate enough to feel the need to compete in this tournament)
* 6 participants. all patzers, by *modern* standards. Hiarcs and Junior being the top ones, easily 300 elo behind the top engines in rating lists.
* format was an all-play-all (twice): each engine plays 10 games. would be interesting to run some simulation to show the probability of an engine inferior by 100 elo winning this, 200 elo, and so on. With high draw rates, it must be pretty high… Probably why patzers participate: with a stroke of luck they get to usurpate the name "world chqmpion"
* engines use their own books, as many TB as they want. even hardware is unlimited. Jonny competed with a 2400 core cluster, whereas some people have only a normal computer to compete.

How can this farce call itself the "world championship" ?

[Michel]

Kommodo 9 @ICGA but not Stockfish? How exciting... What do you think who will win?

Well, with the format of this tournament (1 game elimination), you never know. With a stroke of luck, maybe Pandix or Merlin could defeat Komodo. LOL.

One-game elimination? This tournament is sad. They make the computer-chess community look stupid.

As was pointed out above this was another misrepresentation by Lucas.

Ok. It's not as bad as I thought. But the format of the tournament is still a joke. Example in 2013:
* firstly people have to go to Japan for a week.

It has already been pointed out that this is not really true. You only need a local operator which is trivial to organize. Nonetheless many engine authors seem to actually enjoy going in person to the tournament because of the social interaction it entails. It is similar to going to a conference. This being said I think the ICGA should indeed be more flexible on this point. Perhaps some people can talk to them? HGM, Ed Schroder, Marcel van Kervinck?

That's a selection factor in itself, clearly aimed at favoring commercial engines (those desperate enough to feel the need to compete in this tournament)
* 6 participants. all patzers, by *modern* standards.

Well that's precisely why we want SF and Komodo to participate!

Hiarcs and Junior being the top ones, easily 300 elo behind the top engines in rating lists.
* format was an all-play-all (twice): each engine plays 10 games. would be interesting to run some simulation to show the probability of an engine inferior by 100 elo winning this, 200 elo, and so on. With high draw rates, it must be pretty high… Probably why patzers participate: with a stroke of luck they get to usurpate the name "world chqmpion"

What you write is true for any sport. This is just entertainment.

* engines use their own books, as many TB as they want. even hardware is unlimited. Jonny competed with a 2400 core cluster, whereas some people have only a normal computer to compete.

Personally I consider it precisely one of the strong points of this tournament that the HW is unlimited. It would clearly favor Stockfish since it can use one of the many strong machines on fishtest. Moreover it might spark research into cluster versions of SF (like there used to be cluster Toga).

[Harvey Williamson]

* engines use their own books, as many TB as they want. even hardware is unlimited. Jonny competed with a 2400 core cluster, whereas some people have only a normal computer to compete.

Personally I consider it precisely one of the strong points of this tournament that the HW is unlimited. It would clearly favor Stockfish since it can use one of the many strong machines on fishtest. Moreover it might spark research into cluster versions of SF (like there used to be cluster Toga).

There are 2 tournaments. The WC on unlimited hardware and the WCSC on = hardware that is provided by the ICGA.

[Laskos]

This is much less obvious to me than it is to you.

If i had to design a tournament strategy for Junior in an imminent ICGA event in case Stockfish participated I'd think of a draw in our game as a *very* desirable result, and in case this was achieved we would have to see who is able to score better against the opposition. I'd try to prepare a very drawish opening book against Stockfish and try as hard as I can to win every other game.

Stockfish would likely draw some other game too against one of the weaker opponents ( just as it doesn't try too hard to win in general) , and so it could be outdone.

Would Stockfish still be the favourite to win the tournament? It would be indeed IMHO. But it still is a chess entity with apparemt weaknesses despite its enourmous playing strength, and as it isn't aware of them ( yet ??) - they could also be used against it IMHO.

Anyway - as all of this is clearly none of my business I'll not engage in this dicussion further

Peter over and out.

If there are 11 engines, 10 games each engine, and say 5 engines 200 Elo points weaker than SF at LTC and equal hardware, 4 engines 400 Elo weaker, then taking into account the hardware fluctuations and book fluctuations, SF has LESS than 50% to win WCCC.

[lucasart]

It would clearly favor Stockfish since it can use one of the many strong machines on fishtest.

Fishtest is not a SF cluster. It could be an interesting project, but clearly outside the scope of SF.

[Michel]

It would clearly favor Stockfish since it can use one of the many strong machines on fishtest.

Fishtest is not a SF cluster. It could be an interesting project, but clearly outside the scope of SF.

I guess I should have made that two sentences

(1) SF could use a strong fishtest machine to compete in the ICGA tournament.

(2) Participation in the ICGA tournament might stimulate research into cluster versions of SF (I do not see why that would be "out of the scope" of SF).