Wesley So Forfeited In U.S. Championship Round 9

[syzygy]

No, I would not have asked the arbitrator to disqualify my opponent. I don't think this is what happened in this case either or am I wrong on this point?

It is what happened, indeed.

How about getting your facts straight?

Haven't you already outed yourself as someone who is neither involved nor has any actual experience? Why does someone like you have to make such a noise?

How does lack of tournament experience prevent me from getting my facts straight, doing some research, given actual arguments, making logical sense? Answer: it does not.

[AdminX]

What exactly, Reported his opponent, or asked that he be Disqualified? My understanding is that all he did was report him.

He is not an idiot, nobody goes to the arbiter and says: Disqualify him! of course not, you report the "crime" and the arbiter takes the required action or what he thinks is required. Please, let's not be naive.

I am not being naive, that honor belongs to Wesley So, he had been getting away with it for so long that he probably thought nothing like this would ever come from it. Sought of like playing russian roulette with a loaded revolver.

[gordonr]

I have been playing tournament chess for 35 years, not at top level, obviously. Never, really never has anything like what you describe happened.

I've played over-the-board chess for about 25 years, not top level either. All my opponents have respected the "no notes" rule so I've not seen anything like it either and I don't want to see a trend starting because some GM is given special treatment.

[Dann Corbit]

Quite so.
I see no reason why anything written down during game play that does not rely upon outside sources should be frowned upon.

Over-the-board chess is a challenge of mental abilities. It's not like some math exam where if I'm poor at mental arithmetic it's fine because I can do my working on paper.

The notes came from his brain. If they came from a computer or a book, that would be different. I suppose that talking out loud is not allowed (can't say I know the answer) but this seems less distracting than talking out loud. In essence, that it exactly what Mr. So did.

And there will be disputes over whether a note was written during or before the game. Or what if during a team match, my team mate sitting at the next board decides to write a note that is actually for my benefit? Who can prove that it wasn't for his own use?

By examination of the note.
Perhaps with teammates, it makes sense. Mr. So had no teammate writing notes sitting next to him, so I think this concept does not apply.

No notes is the only workable rule.

If the contents of the notes are damning, then I can see enforcement of the rule. I have to admit that this response is the most logical argument against taking notes that I have heard.

If you are a chess player who plays Fide games and writing down notes during game play really bothers you then that is one vote for the punishment and for the rule, and it means it is more likely that I am wrong that this bothers Fide players.

[chessico]

I've played over-the-board chess for about 25 years, not top level either. All my opponents have respected the "no notes" rule so I've not seen anything like it either

Nobody does it. But when people who have never played chess want to take over the debate this simple fact gets distorted out of proportion and the general audience gets a totally wrong impression.

[Dann Corbit]

Aside:
Does anyone really believe that the rule as interpreted here is a good idea? If so, I would like to know why.

Reasons for the rule have been given many times already in this thread. You're not going to be convinced, which is fine.

Visualizing boards? I can visualize them a thousand times faster in my head than writing them down. I should hope that my opponent starts drawing boards.

Eh you mean the reason for not allowing to work out calculations on paper? That's simple, in OTB chess you're supposed to do everything in your head with no other help than the board position in front of you. Why is that so? Why does a knight move like a knight?

Look up the FIDE rules. There a lots and lots of little rules that could have been different, but they are what they are. There is a 50-move rule and not a 51-move rule, etc.

Mr. So did not do any chess calculations on paper. If he did so, playing against me, it would not bother me in the least. To tell the truth, I would think it was really funny.

That it would (apparently) bother you is really strange to me. Perhaps it bothers you for the single reason that it appears to be breaking a rule. I find it hard to believe it would bother you for any other reason.

Could you play better chess by using an pen and a paper?

[syzygy]

Aside:
Does anyone really believe that the rule as interpreted here is a good idea? If so, I would like to know why.

Reasons for the rule have been given many times already in this thread. You're not going to be convinced, which is fine.

Visualizing boards? I can visualize them a thousand times faster in my head than writing them down. I should hope that my opponent starts drawing boards.

Eh you mean the reason for not allowing to work out calculations on paper? That's simple, in OTB chess you're supposed to do everything in your head with no other help than the board position in front of you. Why is that so? Why does a knight move like a knight?

Look up the FIDE rules. There a lots and lots of little rules that could have been different, but they are what they are. There is a 50-move rule and not a 51-move rule, etc.

Mr. So did not do any chess calculations on paper. If he did so, playing against me, it would not bother me in the least. To tell the truth, I would think it was really funny.

You're again mixing up things. You asked why one is not allowed to work calculations out on paper. That is the question I answered.

Look, this affair has about 1000 ways of looking at it. If you fire a question from 1 direction, you'll always be able to fire at the answer from another direction.

[Dann Corbit]

Do thousands of players really recognize the validity of this rule?
(Note that I recognize my dissension counts for zero votes, since I do not play in Fide events).
I shall be astonished if a majority of chess players would be annoyed at an opponent writing something down during game play.

Do you realise you are mixing up things here.

No.
I do not know what I have mixed up.

[michiguel]

... For example, I can note how many candidate moves I found at the root position so that I don't forget them once I start looking at each candidate move in depth. If I spot a subtle threat by my opponent, I note it down so that I can remember to make sure my final chosen move deals with it. Etc.

What if I'm struggling to visualise a long line of moves? Surely noting where the pieces are half way along the line would be helpful? Can I draw a diagram?

If some notes are allowed, it becomes impossible for every arbiter to consistently and fairly apply what is allowed or not. It opens a can of worms for all kinds of problems.

I have been playing tournament chess for 35 years, not at top level, obviously. Never, really never has anything like what you describe happened. And i don't remember any reported case, either, although if we look hard enough we will probably find someone who has done it, almost certainly a beginner or weak player.
That's not a can of worms you open, there, it's a non-existing problem.
(That's why I think it is not such a bad idea to have a certain experience in what one is talking about).

The fact that you did not observe it is because nobody will dare to do it. Weird, really weird. The rule and its spirit is very old and precedes the use of computers. That is, you cannot use mental crutches, you cannot do anything that is distracting. It is really shocking that a GM attempted this, but after hearing that So said that "Akobian wanted a gift point" I am starting to wonder about his personality. Either something is wrong or he is a spoiled brat (reminds me the "eccentricities" of Fischer). Neither of those two things are expected from a player like him.

Miguel

[Dann Corbit]

Aside:
Does anyone really believe that the rule as interpreted here is a good idea? If so, I would like to know why.

Reasons for the rule have been given many times already in this thread. You're not going to be convinced, which is fine.

Visualizing boards? I can visualize them a thousand times faster in my head than writing them down. I should hope that my opponent starts drawing boards.

Eh you mean the reason for not allowing to work out calculations on paper? That's simple, in OTB chess you're supposed to do everything in your head with no other help than the board position in front of you. Why is that so? Why does a knight move like a knight?

Look up the FIDE rules. There a lots and lots of little rules that could have been different, but they are what they are. There is a 50-move rule and not a 51-move rule, etc.

Mr. So did not do any chess calculations on paper. If he did so, playing against me, it would not bother me in the least. To tell the truth, I would think it was really funny.

You're again mixing up things. You asked why one is not allowed to work calculations out on paper. That is the question I answered.

Look, this affair has about 1000 ways of looking at it. If you fire a question from 1 direction, you'll always be able to fire at the answer from another direction.

Tell the truth:
On playing OTB, will using a pen to write down notes as you play make you play any better?

Now, maybe I think about chess strangely, and other people would benefit greatly from a pen and a paper.

And an opponent using pen and paper to help them think not bothering me may be at odds with the majority of the population.

To my way of thinking, the rule is stupid because I would not care if my opponent wrote down notes. But if it would bother other people who actually play in these tournaments, the likely the rule does make sense.

I just have a very hard time visualizing that it could actually give any sort of advantage to the person doing it. It seems logical to me that the rule is supposed to be against using prepared notes, rather than writing them on the spot.

But if I am wrong and this really bothers other chess players, then I am wrong.

I can also understand why some chess players would not like it simply because it is in violation of a rule.

I am not making any claims to say that Mr. So did not violate a rule.
I am only saying that the rule is stupid.