Collector's Corner..2007 Annual Physicals ..Continue..

[Robert Weck]

Hi Steve, Hi Mikey,

All that's left seems to be Saitek's "Expert Travel Chess Computer." Any opinions on this model?? Thanks...

regards
Mikey

The ETC and President have nearly identical programs (maybe slightly modified); President has a larger library (32000 positions vs. 6000 in the ETC)

So they both should be around 1980 SSDF-ELO.

A very good program with many options; the big weakness is its endgame!


best regards,
Robert

[Steve B]

Not all testing is fun and games
nay,sometimes hard, analytical work is needed to resolve conflicts of information or even lack of information

such was the case with the Three Smaller wooden boards Saitek released for sale

the first smaller wooden board was the Astral programmed by Julio Kaplan , released in 1986 and running on a 6301 processor with a rating of 1526 (SS):



so far so good ...however.. all was not to be so calm and quiet as we shall soon see..


the next smaller wooden board Saitek released was the Virtuoso in 1992 running on the H8 processor and with the manual indicating a 16 Mhz clock speed:



the last of the smaller wooden boards was the Capella released in 1998 and rated 1850(SS):





now it is believed by collectors worldwide that the Capella and Virtuoso are identical computers(even though released 6 years apart ) with only some small cosmetic differences .same program ,,and hardware and both programmed by Frans Morsch

however and herein was the problem..the Capella's manual indicated a clock speed of 10 Mhz!


it was bad enough that Saitek released virtually the same exact computer 6 years later but at a lower clock speed??

this was too much even for a hard core collector like me to believe so i set about testing this to see if it were true

as very few collectors want to actually open up a computer we have developed a standard test to compare clock speeds in two otherwise identical computers
creatively named the " Standard Clock Speed Test" it involves setting both computers to the INFINITE level and then playing a move that takes the computer out of book..once accomplished we then let the computer ponder a move closely watching how long each computer takes to reach a given ply (I.E.5-6ply)
obviously in this case the Virtuoso should be searching 60% faster
however since neither of these computers will show the depth search we then must follow its intended move and watch when the intended move changes

the earlier computers can be made to leave book early on usually with 1.a4 or 1.h4
Left handed collectors prefer of course A4 while "Righty" collectors insist on h4

as i am a lefty i set both computers to INFINITE and then set them to thinking on this position:

STANDARD CLOCK SPEED TEST(LEFTY)
[d] rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/P7/8/1PPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq a3 0 1

the Capella here ponders 1.Nf6 for 4 seconds then switches to d5 for 25 seconds then g6 for 25 seconds and then back to d5.
the Virtuoso also ponders 1.Nf6 then d5 then g6 and then back to d5 ..all in the Same EXACT time

clearly the clock speeds are the same!

now i cant say for certain if they are both 16 Mhz or both 10 Mhz but i am guessing that the manual for the Virtuoso(16 Mhz) was a misprint and they are both 10

XXX Hardcore Collecting Regards
Steve

[cornetmike]

Hi Steve, Hi Mikey,

All that's left seems to be Saitek's "Expert Travel Chess Computer." Any opinions on this model?? Thanks...

regards
Mikey

The ETC and President have nearly identical programs (maybe slightly modified); President has a larger library (32000 positions vs. 6000 in the ETC)

So they both should be around 1980 SSDF-ELO.

A very good program with many options; the big weakness is its endgame!


best regards,
Robert

Thank you, Robert! Now I'm even more eager to get the ETC. But I notice at Saitek's website there's no mention of the ETC. I hope the model hasn't been discontinued.

warm regards
Mikey

[mclane]

steve i have a problem with one of my dedicated units. i don't understand what is going on.

I am talking about the Mephisto Schachakademie...

or Talking chess academy.




in schachcomputer.info someone has played 35 games and the machine got an ELO there ~2000.

they say its a kind of morsch clone, between GK2000 or 2100.

my version also looks like that, from the info displays i would say so.

now i did 2 games versus nigel short, and the acedemy was wiped out and played chess ~ 1000 elo !

i looked into the OPTIONS to see if i had done any setting wrong, but it seems i have done anything right.

level 76 (according to my manual this is 40/120, it also plays this way)
sound from 2 to 1, the voice goes on my nerves.
coach OFF, all openings, opening rules all on, selectivity is also ON.

here the horrible games...




[Event "40/120"]
[Site "SCW"]
[Date "2007.08.22"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Mephisto Akademie"]
[Black "Mephisto Nigel Short 10mhz"]
[ECO "A29"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. g4 d5 2. h3 e5 3. c3 h5 4. gxh5 Rxh5 5. Qb3 Nc6 6. Bg2
Nf6 7. Qa4 Bd7 8. Qc2 Bc5 9. Qb3 a6 10. a3 e4 11. Qa4 Rf5
12. f4 Nh5 13. h4 Ng3 14. Rh3 Bxg1 15. Kd1 Nd4 16. Qxd4
Bxd4 17. cxd4 0-1

[Event "40/120"]
[Site "SCW"]
[Date "2007.08.22"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Mephisto Nigel Short 10mhz"]
[Black "Mephisto Akademie"]
[ECO "C25"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Qh4 3. Nf3 Qh6 4. d4 Qf6 5. Nd5 Qd8 6. Nxe5
Bd6 7. Qg4 g6 8. Bf4 Na6 9. Bc4 h5 10. Qf3 Rh7 11. O-O-O c6
12. Ne3 Bxe5 13. dxe5 Qa5 1-0

i doubt that you could get 2000 ELO with this kind of playing "style".

something must be wrong. either the level 76 IS NO tournament-level,
as the manual says, but a FUN-level, or my machine is broken. but how?

can you reproduce the moves ?

also possible: 2 versions of the unit exist.
maybe one with creg barnes program (weak moves) and another with frans morsch engine (ELO 2000).

[Alainza]

Just a guess...

I remember a post (from Robert ?) explaining that some Morsch program had a bug and kept the "fun" option until you made a reset, i.e. even if you selected some normal level after having selected a "fun" level, the computer did not play at the indicated level.

I think that my Mephisto Chess Challenger has this bug because I saw it once or twice play such awful games.

So may by you should do a reset and try to replay the games ?

best regards,
Alain

[DD-OK]

I am not home so don't have the reference manual, but if I recall correctly, if you don't reset the machine with the reset switch, after having used one of the "fun" levels, it will stay in the crippled search mode of the fun level.

Well, I know this is true for the portable which I think is the same program, the travel expert.

Try it, nothing to lose.

(Sorry Alains post was not there when I wrote above response. Sounds like we have a winner).

[Steve B]

hi Thorsten

sorry but i do not own the Talking Chess Academy

Selective Search rates it at 1903 Elo so i agree something is wrong

Best
Steve

[mclane]

This would indeed explain it.

this is of course NOT written in the handbook/manual

ok. i do a reset at home and try again !
amazing feature ))

but this also means IMO that the talking chess academy has a MORSCH program, not a creg barnes engine (as Günter Rehburg claims in his CSS article) and that is maybe has the strength of the COSMOS (1980) who had the same fun-level-reset-bug. the ~2000 ELO after 35 games in the list of schachcomputer.info looks very close to the 1980.

[Robert Weck]

Hi Thorsten,

This would indeed explain it.

this is of course NOT written in the handbook/manual

ok. i do a reset at home and try again !
amazing feature ))

but this also means IMO that the talking chess academy has a MORSCH program, not a creg barnes engine (as Günter Rehburg claims in his CSS article) and that is maybe has the strength of the COSMOS (1980) who had the same fun-level-reset-bug. the ~2000 ELO after 35 games in the list of schachcomputer.info looks very close to the 1980.

could you maybe check some typical BT2450 positions and post the results here?

I only had the chance to check the first position and the (borrowed) Schachakademie did not find the correct answer within 15 mins! According to the list on .info, a GK2100 clone should have it in around 10 mins.

We tried to play identical games with a Cosmos, but no luck! So i doubt, it could be a GK2100 clone. Maybe GK2000? (but this would contradict to the "fun level" theorie, as the GK2000 is not known to have this bug)

In any case it deserves further investigation!


thank you!
Robert

[mclane]

thank you robert. as i said, my main goal was to have an opponent that FITS to my mephisto nigel short for playing some games.
i thought the schachakademie would make it because it had ~2000 elo (or less).

i will reset the machine and test it together with the nigel short.
and keep you all informed.

(first i had one machine never tested by myself, now i have 2

but correct me, the GK2100 also does not have those opening-rule functions to switch ON/OFF, or ?
the talking chess acedmy is unique concerning this strange feature that you can switch on/off some very important rules for the opening.

is there ANY morsch machine having this feature ? i doubt it.