Rybka 1.0 source code

[Rebel]

By all means move Rybka / Fruit / Loop / Ippo discussions to engine origins as long as it is open for everybody.

[JuLieN]

By all means move Rybka / Fruit / Loop / Ippo discussions to engine origins as long as it is open for everybody.

I'm glad we agree on this point, Ed

I believe (but only polls can really prove my intuition true or wrong) that most users are now bored with those topics. So this solution could solve this problem in a way satisfactory to everyone.

[michiguel]

By all means move Rybka / Fruit / Loop / Ippo discussions to engine origins as long as it is open for everybody.

If I am elected, I won't favor moving any thread that is on-topic. It creates lots of problems. [EDIT: This may need to be negotiated at the beginning of the moderation term and set a policy.]

I agree that flooding a forum with certain topics is spamming and should be avoided, but currently that is not a problem. As KH points out, there is only two threads, and BTW, they are the most read and visited. If the people are civil and do not spam, there is no reason to do anything. If all of the sudden we have dozen threads about this (or any other) single topic, I think that the threads should be locked as soon as they are open, and invite the people to keep things in two or three threads rather than bumping them to another subforum.

People sometimes get crazy and want to open their "own" thread just out of spite. That happened before and it was a huge mess. Those should be locked on the spot. Spam should not be allowed.

Miguel

[JuLieN]

By all means move Rybka / Fruit / Loop / Ippo discussions to engine origins as long as it is open for everybody.

If I am elected, I won't favor moving any thread that is on-topic. It creates lots of problems. [EDIT: This may need to be negotiated at the beginning of the moderation term and set a policy.]

I agree that flooding a forum with certain topics is spamming and should be avoided, but currently that is not a problem. As KH points out, there is only two threads, and BTW, they are the most read and visited. If the people are civil and do not spam, there is no reason to do anything. If all of the sudden we have dozen threads about this (or any other) single topic, I think that the threads should be locked as soon as they are open, and invite the people to keep things in two or three threads rather than bumping them to another subforum.

People sometimes get crazy and want to open their "own" thread just out of spite. That happened before and it was a huge mess. Those should be locked on the spot. Spam should not be allowed.

Miguel

With your system one has to evaluate things each time a new case appears. Don't you think it would be handier to have a simple rule that decides the matter once and for all? Also, there is still the question of the closed Engine Origins sub forum, that generated a lots of conspiracy theories on Rybka's side... So if one opens it there would be no reason to keep such threads in the general topics sub-forum. To make a parallel, people would complain if someone was posting a general topic in the programmers' section.

Anyway, this is NOT a crucial issue, and I wouldn't mind so much if it remained as it is. Still, I think it would be a progress, and furthermore it would be interesting to ask users' opinion through a poll.

[michiguel]

By all means move Rybka / Fruit / Loop / Ippo discussions to engine origins as long as it is open for everybody.

If I am elected, I won't favor moving any thread that is on-topic. It creates lots of problems. [EDIT: This may need to be negotiated at the beginning of the moderation term and set a policy.]

I agree that flooding a forum with certain topics is spamming and should be avoided, but currently that is not a problem. As KH points out, there is only two threads, and BTW, they are the most read and visited. If the people are civil and do not spam, there is no reason to do anything. If all of the sudden we have dozen threads about this (or any other) single topic, I think that the threads should be locked as soon as they are open, and invite the people to keep things in two or three threads rather than bumping them to another subforum.

People sometimes get crazy and want to open their "own" thread just out of spite. That happened before and it was a huge mess. Those should be locked on the spot. Spam should not be allowed.

Miguel

With your system one has to evaluate things each time a new case appears. Don't you think it would be handier to have a simple rule that decides the matter once and for all? Also, there is still the question of the closed Engine Origins sub forum, that generated a lots of conspiracy theories on Rybka's side... So if one opens it there would be no reason to keep such threads in the general topics sub-forum. To make a parallel, people would complain if someone was posting a general topic in the programmers' section.

Anyway, this is NOT a crucial issue, and I wouldn't mind so much if it remained as it is. Still, I think it would be a progress, and furthermore it would be interesting to ask users' opinion through a poll.

I am not against making EO public, but the fact is it is not up to us (so this could be really a moot discussion).

I just don't like on-topic threads that are moved. EO was designed for clone accusations, and the Rybka/Fruit issue goes beyond that. There are issues of policies and procedures that escape a simple clone topic. That belongs to the general forum, IMHO. In other words, I believe they should not be moved because they are on-topic, regardless of EO being public or not. Some threads could go to both subforums, in that case, the judgement of the OP should be respected (as long as the thread does not derail).

Miguel

[Don]

It's hard to get people to make these posts in the right place. I hope you realize that if you move the posts people are going to act like totally idiots and accuse you of violating their free speech and get all moral on you. I don't know if you have done this before or not, but I have. I just want to warn you (in case you don't already know) that it might not be what you think it will be.

I can see 19 threads on my latest screen and 2 refer to the “injustices” that may or may not have been inflicted on Rajlich. If I go back a page, I can see 20 threads and only I refers to the matter and if I go back 2 pages, I can see one thread referring to the issue from the 20 threads that appear and that one comes from the troll. Consequently, it is not clear to me why anyone using flat view would complain. If the complaints are coming from those who use thread view, obvious solutions are available.

If, in spite of those facts, it is felt necessary to move such threads to Engine Origins, some of the heat would be taken out of the (moot) issue of whether or not such action amounts to a serious suppression of free speech if Engine Origins was made visible to non-members.

That seems reasonable to me, but I remember at least 3 times in the last year or two that someone just thought the idea of moving "their" post was a crime against humanity.

[Adam Hair]

By all means move Rybka / Fruit / Loop / Ippo discussions to engine origins as long as it is open for everybody.

If I am elected, I won't favor moving any thread that is on-topic. It creates lots of problems. [EDIT: This may need to be negotiated at the beginning of the moderation term and set a policy.]

I agree that flooding a forum with certain topics is spamming and should be avoided, but currently that is not a problem. As KH points out, there is only two threads, and BTW, they are the most read and visited. If the people are civil and do not spam, there is no reason to do anything. If all of the sudden we have dozen threads about this (or any other) single topic, I think that the threads should be locked as soon as they are open, and invite the people to keep things in two or three threads rather than bumping them to another subforum.

People sometimes get crazy and want to open their "own" thread just out of spite. That happened before and it was a huge mess. Those should be locked on the spot. Spam should not be allowed.

Miguel

With your system one has to evaluate things each time a new case appears. Don't you think it would be handier to have a simple rule that decides the matter once and for all? Also, there is still the question of the closed Engine Origins sub forum, that generated a lots of conspiracy theories on Rybka's side... So if one opens it there would be no reason to keep such threads in the general topics sub-forum. To make a parallel, people would complain if someone was posting a general topic in the programmers' section.

Anyway, this is NOT a crucial issue, and I wouldn't mind so much if it remained as it is. Still, I think it would be a progress, and furthermore it would be interesting to ask users' opinion through a poll.

I am not against making EO public, but the fact is it is not up to us (so this could be really a moot discussion).

I just don't like on-topic threads that are moved. EO was designed for clone accusations, and the Rybka/Fruit issue goes beyond that. There are issues of policies and procedures that escape a simple clone topic. That belongs to the general forum, IMHO. In other words, I believe they should not be moved because they are on-topic, regardless of EO being public or not. Some threads could go to both subforums, in that case, the judgement of the OP should be respected (as long as the thread does not derail).

Miguel

As long as EO is closed from public view, then moving threads from the General forum to EO will be a sensitive subject. IMHO, no thread should be moved there. If the OP started the thread in the General forum, then he/she wanted it to be read by all. As long as it was informative and did not devolve into a flame war, there is no reason to do anything to it.

However, if EO were open, then movement would be less controversial and so moving a thread to there would be a matter of appropriate housekeeping.

Adam

[bob]

(To both sides).

Hopefully, the next moderation team will keep all those crazy threads were they belong: in the engines origin subforum.

Because right now, this is boring the vast majority of people and turning people against each others.

Lots of people are leaving the scene. Two years ago, a Talkchess election would gather more than 200 votes. Now it's about 70 voters only. You even drove away important people of the community like Dann Corbit

Both sides are acting irrationally because this has become personal. You'll never solve this problem with this kind of useless threads. If you REALLY want to solve the problem, use the enormous amount of time you're wasting in these endless threads in a more useful way: write a complete report will all the arguments, pros and cons.

August 2007 - 168 voters
November 2007 - 159 voters
May 2008 - 137 voters
November 2008 - 137 voters
June 2009 - 146 voters
January 2010 - 197 voters
June 2011 - 113 voters (first team election - only one team)
January 2011 - 66 voters (second team election - only one team)
July 2011 - 73 voters (third team election - only one team)

Tells a story really.

What? That only an idiot will drive down to the local voting location to vote for an unopposed candidate that wins by default?

[bob]

I believe the original complaint by Fabien was early July.

Thank you Bob.

So just a couple of days after the Rybka verdict.

Fabien keeps you busy

I can't recall all the specifics. The topic was broached in April. But we obviously were not going to open another investigation until the current one was closed... It became a formal request once the panel report was submitted, the decision announced, and the case closed by the ICGA.

[Rebel]

I believe the original complaint by Fabien was early July.

Thank you Bob.

So just a couple of days after the Rybka verdict.

Fabien keeps you busy

I can't recall all the specifics. The topic was broached in April. But we obviously were not going to open another investigation until the current one was closed... It became a formal request once the panel report was submitted, the decision announced, and the case closed by the ICGA.

It will be interesting how the ICGA is going to handle this since one of its key members is involved. It's now 8 months after, it's not decided yet which independent body is going to research the Loop case?