Borislav Ivanov: a Lilov's add-on

[Cubeman]

I have watched all Lilov's videos and must admit that I am extremely suspicious of Borislav. One thing I have noted is that in those games of Borislav that he never really makes any blunders. I class blunder as a move that allows the opponent to change a losing position into a draw and an equal position into a win. This is still with the best 3 moves in the PV. I am thinking that if he is cheating with Houdini then he has set the Elo of the engine to a lower value than the maximum and this will explain the fluctuations of the moves when he chooses 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He could set it to play at 2700 or some other high value which he is confident of beating his opponent for that round. I don't have Houdini but thought if someone could retest his games at a different Elo setting for Houdini then we might see a 100% hit rate for the time used and move made.

[kinderchocolate]

I have watched all Lilov's videos and must admit that I am extremely suspicious of Borislav. One thing I have noted is that in those games of Borislav that he never really makes any blunders. I class blunder as a move that allows the opponent to change a losing position into a draw and an equal position into a win. This is still with the best 3 moves in the PV. I am thinking that if he is cheating with Houdini then he has set the Elo of the engine to a lower value than the maximum and this will explain the fluctuations of the moves when he chooses 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He could set it to play at 2700 or some other high value which he is confident of beating his opponent for that round. I don't have Houdini but thought if someone could retest his games at a different Elo setting for Houdini then we might see a 100% hit rate for the time used and move made.

I too think he's cheating otherwise there's no explanation why he took exactly 10s for every single move. The problem with the videos is that Lilov had assumed he must have used Houdini 3.0. This was a very strong but unreasonable assumption. But he didn't have to! He could have used the earlier Houdini or any other 100+ chess engines.

[Terry McCracken]

No doubt he's cheating, he's doing the impossible and can't explain how he does it.

I see people are having a hard time coming to grips with the obvious and has lead to another mega-thread.

[mwyoung]

I have watched all Lilov's videos and must admit that I am extremely suspicious of Borislav. One thing I have noted is that in those games of Borislav that he never really makes any blunders. I class blunder as a move that allows the opponent to change a losing position into a draw and an equal position into a win. This is still with the best 3 moves in the PV. I am thinking that if he is cheating with Houdini then he has set the Elo of the engine to a lower value than the maximum and this will explain the fluctuations of the moves when he chooses 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He could set it to play at 2700 or some other high value which he is confident of beating his opponent for that round. I don't have Houdini but thought if someone could retest his games at a different Elo setting for Houdini then we might see a 100% hit rate for the time used and move made.

I too think he's cheating otherwise there's no explanation why he took exactly 10s for every single move. The problem with the videos is that Lilov had assumed he must have used Houdini 3.0. This was a very strong but unreasonable assumption. But he didn't have to! He could have used the earlier Houdini or any other 100+ chess engines.

How do you know Ivanov took 10 seconds every move? If this is what convinces you Ivanov must be cheating. I would think before saying someone is guilty of cheating you would want to know for sure the correct times.

You are getting this from hearsay the 10 seconds every move.

There is no record of game times per move. Then you don't even get the testimony correct from the player.

Here is the testimony, but no game time record exist to verify any of his statement regarding any times per move.

Not 10 seconds every move. Testimony is 5 to 7 seconds a move and 3 seconds for the move to avoid repeating the position.



GM Georgiev statement as reported. "GM Kiril Georgiev: "Dear Alex, I am glad to know that there are young people like you and Valeri who are searching for the truth!"

"My game against Borislav Ivanov was played at ten minutes plus five second increment. He played very fast, which came as a big surprise to me. He spent between five and seven seconds per move, and never took more time on any of his moves during the game. For the whole game he was supporting his chin with his two hands. He was making his moves quickly and vigorously, displaying a high level of self-confidence at all times."

"He nevertheless had a lot of time on the clock – at the end of the game he had over seven minutes left! He didn’t stand up even once during the game. Our game was not broadcast over the Internet. It made a strong impression on me that at some point, when the position was repeated twice, he thought for about three seconds and diverted, avoiding a three-fold repetition! Best Regards, Kiril."

[Terry McCracken]

I have watched all Lilov's videos and must admit that I am extremely suspicious of Borislav. One thing I have noted is that in those games of Borislav that he never really makes any blunders. I class blunder as a move that allows the opponent to change a losing position into a draw and an equal position into a win. This is still with the best 3 moves in the PV. I am thinking that if he is cheating with Houdini then he has set the Elo of the engine to a lower value than the maximum and this will explain the fluctuations of the moves when he chooses 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He could set it to play at 2700 or some other high value which he is confident of beating his opponent for that round. I don't have Houdini but thought if someone could retest his games at a different Elo setting for Houdini then we might see a 100% hit rate for the time used and move made.

I too think he's cheating otherwise there's no explanation why he took exactly 10s for every single move. The problem with the videos is that Lilov had assumed he must have used Houdini 3.0. This was a very strong but unreasonable assumption. But he didn't have to! He could have used the earlier Houdini or any other 100+ chess engines.

How do you know Ivanov took 10 seconds every move? If this is what convinces you Ivanov must be cheating. I would think before saying someone is guilty of cheating you would want to know for sure the correct times.

You are getting this from hearsay the 10 seconds every move.

There is no record of game times per move. Then you don't even get the testimony correct from the player.

Here is the testimony, but no game time record exist to verify any of his statement regarding any times per move.

Not 10 seconds every move. Testimony is 5 to 7 seconds a move and 3 seconds for the move to avoid repeating the position.



GM Georgiev statement as reported. "GM Kiril Georgiev: "Dear Alex, I am glad to know that there are young people like you and Valeri who are searching for the truth!"

"My game against Borislav Ivanov was played at ten minutes plus five second increment. He played very fast, which came as a big surprise to me. He spent between five and seven seconds per move, and never took more time on any of his moves during the game. For the whole game he was supporting his chin with his two hands. He was making his moves quickly and vigorously, displaying a high level of self-confidence at all times."

"He nevertheless had a lot of time on the clock – at the end of the game he had over seven minutes left! He didn’t stand up even once during the game. Our game was not broadcast over the Internet. It made a strong impression on me that at some point, when the position was repeated twice, he thought for about three seconds and diverted, avoiding a three-fold repetition! Best Regards, Kiril."

You really doubt he was cheating...that's risible!

[mwyoung]

I have watched all Lilov's videos and must admit that I am extremely suspicious of Borislav. One thing I have noted is that in those games of Borislav that he never really makes any blunders. I class blunder as a move that allows the opponent to change a losing position into a draw and an equal position into a win. This is still with the best 3 moves in the PV. I am thinking that if he is cheating with Houdini then he has set the Elo of the engine to a lower value than the maximum and this will explain the fluctuations of the moves when he chooses 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He could set it to play at 2700 or some other high value which he is confident of beating his opponent for that round. I don't have Houdini but thought if someone could retest his games at a different Elo setting for Houdini then we might see a 100% hit rate for the time used and move made.

I too think he's cheating otherwise there's no explanation why he took exactly 10s for every single move. The problem with the videos is that Lilov had assumed he must have used Houdini 3.0. This was a very strong but unreasonable assumption. But he didn't have to! He could have used the earlier Houdini or any other 100+ chess engines.

How do you know Ivanov took 10 seconds every move? If this is what convinces you Ivanov must be cheating. I would think before saying someone is guilty of cheating you would want to know for sure the correct times.

You are getting this from hearsay the 10 seconds every move.

There is no record of game times per move. Then you don't even get the testimony correct from the player.

Here is the testimony, but no game time record exist to verify any of his statement regarding any times per move.

Not 10 seconds every move. Testimony is 5 to 7 seconds a move and 3 seconds for the move to avoid repeating the position.



GM Georgiev statement as reported. "GM Kiril Georgiev: "Dear Alex, I am glad to know that there are young people like you and Valeri who are searching for the truth!"

"My game against Borislav Ivanov was played at ten minutes plus five second increment. He played very fast, which came as a big surprise to me. He spent between five and seven seconds per move, and never took more time on any of his moves during the game. For the whole game he was supporting his chin with his two hands. He was making his moves quickly and vigorously, displaying a high level of self-confidence at all times."

"He nevertheless had a lot of time on the clock – at the end of the game he had over seven minutes left! He didn’t stand up even once during the game. Our game was not broadcast over the Internet. It made a strong impression on me that at some point, when the position was repeated twice, he thought for about three seconds and diverted, avoiding a three-fold repetition! Best Regards, Kiril."

You really doubt he was cheating...that's risible!

I don't know if Ivanov is cheating. If Fide charges Ivanov with cheating and bans him, or the authorities charge him with fraud, and we see the evidence we may know.

I am with Fide and the police authorities on this. I have seen nothing compelling enough to say Ivanov should be banned for cheating, or charged with fraud at this time.

I have seen speculation and accusations, but no evidence yet of any standing.

[Terry McCracken]

I have watched all Lilov's videos and must admit that I am extremely suspicious of Borislav. One thing I have noted is that in those games of Borislav that he never really makes any blunders. I class blunder as a move that allows the opponent to change a losing position into a draw and an equal position into a win. This is still with the best 3 moves in the PV. I am thinking that if he is cheating with Houdini then he has set the Elo of the engine to a lower value than the maximum and this will explain the fluctuations of the moves when he chooses 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He could set it to play at 2700 or some other high value which he is confident of beating his opponent for that round. I don't have Houdini but thought if someone could retest his games at a different Elo setting for Houdini then we might see a 100% hit rate for the time used and move made.

I too think he's cheating otherwise there's no explanation why he took exactly 10s for every single move. The problem with the videos is that Lilov had assumed he must have used Houdini 3.0. This was a very strong but unreasonable assumption. But he didn't have to! He could have used the earlier Houdini or any other 100+ chess engines.

How do you know Ivanov took 10 seconds every move? If this is what convinces you Ivanov must be cheating. I would think before saying someone is guilty of cheating you would want to know for sure the correct times.

You are getting this from hearsay the 10 seconds every move.

There is no record of game times per move. Then you don't even get the testimony correct from the player.

Here is the testimony, but no game time record exist to verify any of his statement regarding any times per move.

Not 10 seconds every move. Testimony is 5 to 7 seconds a move and 3 seconds for the move to avoid repeating the position.



GM Georgiev statement as reported. "GM Kiril Georgiev: "Dear Alex, I am glad to know that there are young people like you and Valeri who are searching for the truth!"

"My game against Borislav Ivanov was played at ten minutes plus five second increment. He played very fast, which came as a big surprise to me. He spent between five and seven seconds per move, and never took more time on any of his moves during the game. For the whole game he was supporting his chin with his two hands. He was making his moves quickly and vigorously, displaying a high level of self-confidence at all times."

"He nevertheless had a lot of time on the clock – at the end of the game he had over seven minutes left! He didn’t stand up even once during the game. Our game was not broadcast over the Internet. It made a strong impression on me that at some point, when the position was repeated twice, he thought for about three seconds and diverted, avoiding a three-fold repetition! Best Regards, Kiril."

You really doubt he was cheating...that's risible!

I don't know if Ivanov is cheating. If Fide charges Ivanov with cheating and bans him, or the authorities charge him with fraud, and we see the evidence we may know.

I am with Fide and the police authorities on this. I have seen nothing compelling enough to say Ivanov should be banned for cheating, or charged with fraud at this time.

I have seen speculation and accusations, but no evidence yet of any standing.

He can't play GM chess, let alone better than the best that ever lived at any time in history. What do you need? A sign from God?

[BubbaTough]

What we are talking about is not someone cheating at chess on ICC Don.

Cheating at chess to win money is a crime...it is called fraud, and is a crime in every county that I know of.

I will stick to what I believe, I know communist and socialist and others have changing standards. I will stick to the US standard, before saying someone is guilty.

At this time Ivanov is free to play chess anywhere, and has not been charged with anything. I guess FIDE is giving their approval of Ivanov cheating also since the evidence against Ivanov is so clear cut...

Similar opinion expressed GM Veselin Topalov in his interview for chess-news.ru . Free translation . "There is in my country one person who is accused of cheating but no one can prove that. Accusing player of cheating because he is playing good is stupid"

http://chess-news.ru/node/12467
Rgds Hood.

The Topalov quote is kind of funny when you think about it. Didn't Topalov accuse Kramnik of cheating and supply # of moves played that were the same as Fritz as evidence during that whole toilet-gate scandal?

-Sam

[Hood]

What we are talking about is not someone cheating at chess on ICC Don.

Cheating at chess to win money is a crime...it is called fraud, and is a crime in every county that I know of.

I will stick to what I believe, I know communist and socialist and others have changing standards. I will stick to the US standard, before saying someone is guilty.

At this time Ivanov is free to play chess anywhere, and has not been charged with anything. I guess FIDE is giving their approval of Ivanov cheating also since the evidence against Ivanov is so clear cut...

Similar opinion expressed GM Veselin Topalov in his interview for chess-news.ru . Free translation . "There is in my country one person who is accused of cheating but no one can prove that. Accusing player of cheating because he is playing good is stupid"

http://chess-news.ru/node/12467
Rgds Hood.

The Topalov quote is kind of funny when you think about it. Didn't Topalov accuse Kramnik of cheating and supply # of moves played that were the same as Fritz as evidence during that whole toilet-gate scandal?

-Sam

You forgot to add that Kramnik has had many visits in the toilette during games. That is major fact.

[BubbaTough]

What we are talking about is not someone cheating at chess on ICC Don.

Cheating at chess to win money is a crime...it is called fraud, and is a crime in every county that I know of.

I will stick to what I believe, I know communist and socialist and others have changing standards. I will stick to the US standard, before saying someone is guilty.

At this time Ivanov is free to play chess anywhere, and has not been charged with anything. I guess FIDE is giving their approval of Ivanov cheating also since the evidence against Ivanov is so clear cut...

Similar opinion expressed GM Veselin Topalov in his interview for chess-news.ru . Free translation . "There is in my country one person who is accused of cheating but no one can prove that. Accusing player of cheating because he is playing good is stupid"

http://chess-news.ru/node/12467
Rgds Hood.

The Topalov quote is kind of funny when you think about it. Didn't Topalov accuse Kramnik of cheating and supply # of moves played that were the same as Fritz as evidence during that whole toilet-gate scandal?

-Sam

You forgot to add that Kramnik has had many visits in the toilette during games. That is major fact.

Yes, it it one of those external correlation issues that you and Topolav seem to be arguing so strongly against, kind of like the odd time management and the inconsistent results of Ivanov. Its possible Kramnik was cheating (I would guess not) and possible that Ivanov is not cheating (I would guess he is). But independent of the truth, I find the reasoning that in toilet-gate there was enough evidence for scandal, and in this case there is not, an entertaining supposition.

-Sam