Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann sues champion Magnus Carlsen, others for $100 million over cheating claim

[towforce]

It is so glaringly obvious that he cheated over the board and the issue is not "IF" ... it is "HOW".

I agree that people are arguing about this issue too much, but I'm afraid the evidence isn't strong enough to support the above statement: sometimes, things that some people thought "obvious" turn out to be wrong.

[gaard]

You guys are still at this ??? Hans Nieman is an absolute fraud and cheater and is a disgusting creep that has needs to be banned for life from any competitive chess tournament. It is so glaringly obvious that he cheated over the board and the issue is not "IF" ... it is "HOW". Focus should be on how he cheated and how to prevent such cheating in competitive chess. Creeps like him should be banned for life instead of having goupies that are infatuated with "bad boy syndrome" trying to make excuses for him. Even murderers on death row have fan bases so of course I am not surprised that here it is the same. So let's stop making excuses for this piece of shit and try to figure out how to best prevent such creeps from destroying competitive chess.

So much vitriol and hatred. Check your blood pressure and take a deep breath. When you have regained your composure, cross-reference the word 'obvious'. You will find that it does not mean what you think it means. Murderers? Remember to breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth.

[M ANSARI]

You guys are still at this ??? Hans Nieman is an absolute fraud and cheater and is a disgusting creep that has needs to be banned for life from any competitive chess tournament. It is so glaringly obvious that he cheated over the board and the issue is not "IF" ... it is "HOW". Focus should be on how he cheated and how to prevent such cheating in competitive chess. Creeps like him should be banned for life instead of having goupies that are infatuated with "bad boy syndrome" trying to make excuses for him. Even murderers on death row have fan bases so of course I am not surprised that here it is the same. So let's stop making excuses for this piece of shit and try to figure out how to best prevent such creeps from destroying competitive chess.

So much vitriol and hatred. Check your blood pressure and take a deep breath. When you have regained your composure, cross-reference the word 'obvious'. You will find that it does not mean what you think it means. Murderers? Remember to breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth.

Yes vitriol and hatred for cheating creeps that go around saying that "all these super GM's are actually terrible chess players" while using an engine to cheat. It takes a really narcissistic piece of shit person to be able to cheat and then say that. Creeps like that should be treated with disdain and disgust rather than having a bunch of groupies rally in their support and make excuses and cover for their behavior. I am sure he probably had a sad childhood and maybe was mistreated as a kid .... etc... etc. Even serial murderers have a fan base with groupies excitedly making excuses for them and actively speaking out for them. I however feel that people like that should be exposed and banned and eliminated from any competitive play. No honest player should have to deal with a POS like that.

[Robert Flesher]

+1

[Robert Flesher]

You guys are still at this ??? Hans Nieman is an absolute fraud and cheater and is a disgusting creep that has needs to be banned for life from any competitive chess tournament. It is so glaringly obvious that he cheated over the board and the issue is not "IF" ... it is "HOW". Focus should be on how he cheated and how to prevent such cheating in competitive chess. Creeps like him should be banned for life instead of having goupies that are infatuated with "bad boy syndrome" trying to make excuses for him. Even murderers on death row have fan bases so of course I am not surprised that here it is the same. So let's stop making excuses for this piece of shit and try to figure out how to best prevent such creeps from destroying competitive chess.

So much vitriol and hatred. Check your blood pressure and take a deep breath. When you have regained your composure, cross-reference the word 'obvious'. You will find that it does not mean what you think it means. Murderers? Remember to breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth.

Yes vitriol and hatred for cheating creeps that go around saying that "all these super GM's are actually terrible chess players" while using an engine to cheat. It takes a really narcissistic piece of shit person to be able to cheat and then say that. Creeps like that should be treated with disdain and disgust rather than having a bunch of groupies rally in their support and make excuses and cover for their behavior. I am sure he probably had a sad childhood and maybe was mistreated as a kid .... etc... etc. Even serial murderers have a fan base with groupies excitedly making excuses for them and actively speaking out for them. I however feel that people like that should be exposed and banned and eliminated from any competitive play. No honest player should have to deal with a POS like that.

+1

[CornfedForever]

So much vitriol and hatred. Check your blood pressure and take a deep breath. When you have regained your composure, cross-reference the word 'obvious'. You will find that it does not mean what you think it means. Murderers? Remember to breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth.

+1

[towforce]

So much vitriol and hatred. Check your blood pressure and take a deep breath. When you have regained your composure, cross-reference the word 'obvious'. You will find that it does not mean what you think it means. Murderers? Remember to breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth.

+1

+1

Leaving aside the important legal principle of "innocent until proven guilty", there is cheating, stealing and corruption going on all over the world: all but the most principled of people will, under some circumstances, be drawn into being dishonest for their own benefit. If you're going to get this upset each time you encounter this phenomenon, you're not going to have much happiness.

You could get a job or start a business which entails encouraging people to be more ethical: I would support this - I think the world would be better if people improved their standards of behaviour towards each other. Also, the people themselves would, in most cases, be happier on becoming better.

[MikeB]

I see this was filed in the United States. If a figure is in the public eye, the plaintiff must prove that a defendant made a defamatory statement with malice. That is, the defendant made the statement knowing it was false or with reckless disregard for whether it was true or false. That would appear to me to be a huge obstacle here. Clearly, the defendants had some evidence that there was possible cheating, so, in my opinion, it would never be considered reckless disregard as to whether it was true or false. This will go nowhere fast, ymmv.

[towforce]

I see this was filed in the United States. If a figure is in the public eye, the plaintiff must prove that a defendant made a defamatory statement with malice. That is, the defendant made the statement knowing it was false or with reckless disregard for whether it was true or false. That would appear to me to be a huge obstacle here. Clearly, the defendants had some evidence that there was possible cheating, so, in my opinion, it would never be considered reckless disregard as to whether it was true or false. This will go nowhere fast, ymmv.

From the above quoted text (which looks correct - link), Hans Niemann needs to show that {Carlsen and Chess.com} made statements about him "with reckless disregard for whether it was true or false".

Unless chess.com has compelling evidence that Hans has cheated a lot since he turned professional (obviously I don't personally know whether they have this or not), then it's very clear that they have met the criteria for defamation.

Where it could get murky: complete speculation on my part, but it could get tricky if chess.com used cheating detection, but genuinely hadn't realised that their own cheating detection algorithms are highly inaccurate. In that case, they would have defamed him, but they wouldn't have done so with reckless disregard. However, this defence could be attacked by showing that people had told chess.com that their algorithms are faulty.

[dkappe]

I see this was filed in the United States. If a figure is in the public eye, the plaintiff must prove that a defendant made a defamatory statement with malice. That is, the defendant made the statement knowing it was false or with reckless disregard for whether it was true or false. That would appear to me to be a huge obstacle here. Clearly, the defendants had some evidence that there was possible cheating, so, in my opinion, it would never be considered reckless disregard as to whether it was true or false. This will go nowhere fast, ymmv.

It’s not just a defamation suit. There are five parties named in the suit. The claims are as follows (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 08.1.0.pdf):

Niemann asserts the following claims against Defendants: (1) slander; (2) libel; (3) unlawful group boycott under the Sherman Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1, et. seq.; (4) tortious interference with contract and business expectancies; and (5) civil conspiracy.

No idea what discovery shows or if it gets thrown out or goes to trial.