Frayer's opinion expressed at the Rybka forum....

[Rolf]

If he was wronged, if his intellectual property was stolen, then he shouldn't rest until he achieves a legal remedy for that violation.

We are making progress. Now the next step for you. How do you make cyber terrorists satisfactionable? That's the problem. And now you can make fun again. Go out and play with the kids, Jerry.

[Rolf]

Vas's official spokesman says that Vas bought Fruit from Fabien very interesting, can I quote you?

IMO such personal stuff in an attempt to harm other members shouldnt be tolerated in the first place. SteveB could you look after the vicious kid, please. SteveB, I could also ask Williamson when he did last slap his grandmother. Perhaps that then would explain what heÄs doing here all the time.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Been thru this over and over. You will not find any code from fruit "in the public domain". Vas specifically mentioned PopCnt() and such, which are no problem to copy. But that is not _all_ that was copied. And the probability of something in Fruit being identical to something developed independently is simply too low to consider. For all the reasons given in earlier posts.

You are grasping at straws, and they are getting more and more improbable as you make lame attempts to justify what has happened. Won't work.

Cant you read properly? I asked you to prove that Vas didnt buy the code from Fabien! Prove it and stop handwaving.
I asked you to prove that the taken code existed only in the Fruit 2.1 code and nowhere else. Prove it w/o handwaving.

Vas's official spokesman says that Vas bought Fruit from Fabien very interesting, can I quote you?

Official spokeman my a$$ Harvey....the poor guy chats a little bit with Vasik here and there,a small conversation from time to time over the Skype and his wild imagination goes on and on....now he's telling us that Vasik has bought the Fruit source code from Fabien,what a crap
Dr.D

[Rolf]

..now he's telling us that Vasik has bought the Fruit source code from Fabien,what a crap
Dr.D

The kids are getting nervous right now. Because the whole forum was incapable of thinking this all through on their own. They worshipped Bob like holy. But Rolf brought science back into computerchess. (After 1997 now for the second time.)

Bob, what did you compare, uhum, you compared code. And where did it come from??? Uhum, it came from Fruit 2.1., uhum. And if not? How could you prove that the code you saw was PGL code???? Sorry, but the excuses, I had classes, wont do it now. You had weeks and weeks, you had months and months, you had years and years, Bob, to do a proper research, but you didnt. Because you examine what is laid before you, you do never ask if that is the only data that could be found. And now? If it's possible that Vas is innocent?

If then the whole Strelka Belka stuff was created in vain? If the Ippo, Robbo clone stuff was created in vain?

If the whole cooperation with cloners and thieves was in vain, Bob!

You told us for years that you could discover similarities of two codes. But, Bob, what does this mean, if you have no idea from what version of a program of a particular guy was analysed? If he had created 10 versions? What will you do if you wrongly accused Vas of stealing code from 2.1.?

[K I Hyams]

Rolf, You have done more damage

Please, what have I done and what should I do and who are you at all. And also, are you a talented corr player? If yes, what is your hardware strength? Please elaborate.

The readers of this site did not need to put up with weeks of you taking up the space on their computer screens with your selfish little fantasies. In addition, they probably don't want to read my comments about you. They are not interested in you, they are not interested in me and they are not interested in my opinions of you; they are interested in computer chess. In the unlikely event that you really want to know what I think, tell me and I will send you a PM. However, I would not advise it because you will not like what you read.

[Rolf]

Official spokeman my a$$ Harvey....the poor guy chats a little bit with Vasik here and there,a small conversation from time to time over the Skype and his wild imagination goes on and on....now he's telling us that Vasik has bought the Fruit source code from Fabien,what a crap
Dr.D

Sorry, if you dont follow me. What you call crap, is in truth just science. You make hypotheses, then you are trying to falsify, if you cant, then it's at least not yet false - the theory you researched. However a single contradiction, and the whole stuff is thrown over. Here the same with the Hyatt-Code-Comparison.

Bob examined two codes and found similarities. One code from Fabien, the other from Vas. Since the one came before the other, the conclusion is, that the second took the code. Now the point. The first code was GPL protected. But the second was not. Hyatt-Conclusion the author of the second code stole code from the first and violated the GPL.

Now the contradiction, trademark Rolf:

If you dont know exactly where the code in the second prog came from then you cant just claim, but it came out of the prog that I had to examine, because that is full crap.

And it is so easy. I did a little research and read about Fabien in late 2005. A guy somewhat insecure, with several options to chose. Once he gave a code for free, then he sold it, then he GPL'd it. But what is if Vas received code that was NOT GPL? And more, how could Bob examine the code without kknowing about the background of the different versions out of 2005?

Stealing code and violating the GPL are serious allegations. You cannot do this just like that.

So, all I did I asked Bob, if he had researched that. If he had, then his examination could still be valid, but if not, then the whole comparison of the two codes is crap. Because then the alleged origin Fruit 2.1. is irrelevant. The trap for Bob was in-built so to speak, because he has already admitted that he had NOT compared the two codes of the WHOLE progs but only pieces, extracts so to speak. But then it's completely impossible to make recursive conclusions, unless you know for sure that the version 2.1. is sort of unique. And that Fabien used a whole different coding in his other versions. But all this must be researched before something could be concluded. Also before the evil issue that a conclusion this way or that way allegedly allows to bash Vasik.

I can only hope, if this comparison by Hyatt is proved false, that then Bob fully apologizes to Vas and that we see them united as friends. But it should be clear that after such a hunting this will also have a financial component.

I wouldnt be surprised if not all members could follow my argumentation, especially after the huge discrimination against me, but at least scientists or students should be able to understand what I am talking about. And in my books it's also possible that a medical doctor had enough education to follow. Unless he's so confused by the daily artillery flames against me.

But anyway, no need to hastily make conclusions. Science needs time and we have all the time in the world to clarify this.
But let's stop to discriminate and scapegoat single members. Let's give us all a fair chance to express our opinions or scientific knowledge.

All the best to Deeb and all others, Rolf

[Alexander Schmidt]

Been thru this over and over. You will not find any code from fruit "in the public domain". Vas specifically mentioned PopCnt() and such, which are no problem to copy. But that is not _all_ that was copied. And the probability of something in Fruit being identical to something developed independently is simply too low to consider. For all the reasons given in earlier posts.

You are grasping at straws, and they are getting more and more improbable as you make lame attempts to justify what has happened. Won't work.

Cant you read properly? I asked you to prove that Vas didnt buy the code from Fabien! Prove it and stop handwaving.
I asked you to prove that the taken code existed only in the Fruit 2.1 code and nowhere else. Prove it w/o handwaving.

Vas's official spokesman says that Vas bought Fruit from Fabien very interesting, can I quote you?

Official spokeman my a$$ Harvey....the poor guy chats a little bit with Vasik here and there,a small conversation from time to time over the Skype and his wild imagination goes on and on....now he's telling us that Vasik has bought the Fruit source code from Fabien,what a crap
Dr.D

It's not crap, it's possible. At the beginning Fabien was very suspicious about Rybka beeing a Fruit clone. Later he did not talk about it anymore. Maybe he and VR found a solution.

I said this several times before, and Rolf attacked me hard for it. Now he says the same. If he wouldn't be so annoying, I would love this kind of real life comedy

[slobo]

Official spokeman my a$$ Harvey....the poor guy chats a little bit with Vasik here and there,a small conversation from time to time over the Skype and his wild imagination goes on and on....now he's telling us that Vasik has bought the Fruit source code from Fabien,what a crap
Dr.D

Sorry, if you dont follow me. What you call crap, is in truth just science. You make hypotheses, then you are trying to falsify, if you cant, then it's at least not yet false - the theory you researched. However a single contradiction, and the whole stuff is thrown over. Here the same with the Hyatt-Code-Comparison.

Bob examined two codes and found similarities. One code from Fabien, the other from Vas. Since the one came before the other, the conclusion is, that the second took the code. Now the point. The first code was GPL protected. But the second was not. Hyatt-Conclusion the author of the second code stole code from the first and violated the GPL.

Now the contradiction, trademark Rolf:

If you dont know exactly where the code in the second prog came from then you cant just claim, but it came out of the prog that I had to examine, because that is full crap.

And it is so easy. I did a little research and read about Fabien in late 2005. A guy somewhat insecure, with several options to chose. Once he gave a code for free, then he sold it, then he GPL'd it. But what is if Vas received code that was NOT GPL? And more, how could Bob examine the code without kknowing about the background of the different versions out of 2005?

Stealing code and violating the GPL are serious allegations. You cannot do this just like that.

So, all I did I asked Bob, if he had researched that. If he had, then his examination could still be valid, but if not, then the whole comparison of the two codes is crap. Because then the alleged origin Fruit 2.1. is irrelevant. The trap for Bob was in-built so to speak, because he has already admitted that he had NOT compared the two codes of the WHOLE progs but only pieces, extracts so to speak. But then it's completely impossible to make recursive conclusions, unless you know for sure that the version 2.1. is sort of unique. And that Fabien used a whole different coding in his other versions. But all this must be researched before something could be concluded. Also before the evil issue that a conclusion this way or that way allegedly allows to bash Vasik.

I can only hope, if this comparison by Hyatt is proved false, that then Bob fully apologizes to Vas and that we see them united as friends. But it should be clear that after such a hunting this will also have a financial component.

I wouldnt be surprised if not all members could follow my argumentation, especially after the huge discrimination against me, but at least scientists or students should be able to understand what I am talking about. And in my books it's also possible that a medical doctor had enough education to follow. Unless he's so confused by the daily artillery flames against me.

But anyway, no need to hastily make conclusions. Science needs time and we have all the time in the world to clarify this.
But let's stop to discriminate and scapegoat single members. Let's give us all a fair chance to express our opinions or scientific knowledge.

It is you who are a crap.
The principal problem is Vasic´s lieing about using Fruit code.
Whether it was legal or illegal, is the second problem.

[Harvey Williamson]

Vas's official spI could also ask Williamson when he did last slap his grandmother.

So you admit that you think you are the spokesman. I think you deserve A Wrist slap.

[bob]

I can't speak for Dr. Hyatt, but I'd really be interested in getting some of those same answers from Vas regarding his accusation that RobboLito/Ippolit is a clone. You're getting a little shrill, Rolf. Jeremy

You compare apples with beans. Vas as businessman _has_ spoken what was necessary and that was it.

Vas has said Robo* is a clone, and absolutely nothing else. That is _not_ "what is necessary" to convince anyone of anything.

Try to challenge him in court. Everything else would be only for the competitors. However here what I asked is in Bob's own perception something of science. And therefore the questions are allowed of how Bob reflected this, how he discarded that etc. Your little plot doesnt work. BTW this is also the reason why Bob doesnt understand why Vas "isnt" speaking. He _has_ spoken and that's it. And on Playchess the clones are _not_ playing. Now I'm not running around and calling others shrill who just dont get it. Let's remain civilized. And let's not overload the importance of such internet places. Decisive for real life with real importance are Courts and the Law.

Claiming that a program is a clone is not significant unless proof is offered. The onus is on the accuser to prove it is a clone, not on the accused to prove it is not.