Questions for the FG about the organization of the election

[hgm]

hgm wrote

If you feel the need to shoot back (taking the law into their own hands)

see what you mean, but i used the words 'shooting' only in the meaning of American slang,

Of course. But invoking 'self defense' as an excuse for doing it shows it is a wrong metaphore. In real life the exception for self-defense exists in situations where there is a risk for irreversible damage to yourself, and a right to prevent that. As the term already suggests it is not an automatic right to counter-attack in order to administer the (possibly deserved) penalty.

[jefk]

rersponding, as this may of value for some other members as well (those sometimes being
viciously attacked without any apparent reason)

self defense' as an excuse for doing it shows it is a wrong metaphore

In a longer term dispute in some situations it imo can be a defensive strategy,
quoting something from the internet:
"Tit for tat is a strategy which, according to game theory, is the most effective choice for iterated games based on mutual cooperation or defection. Both players benefit if they cooperate, but one benefits and the other loses out if only they defect, and both lose out to a lesser extent if they simultaneously defect."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat
Note that i have quite some experience with internet discussions, in many other
discussion groups (other than chess) and found an assertive position works better than
letting functioning as a punch ball. sometimes depending on the sort of moderation, but
nevertheless. Usually not being over emotional, it usually worked for me, i even had some
people removed as member of an organization; not going to give you the gory details.
So i suggest not to to further lecture me on this issue , in fact i could be (would be
qualified) as a moderator here, but for some -also personal- reasons decided not
to volunteer as candidate (moderator).

Anyway for this forum with the current situation (an apparent disfunctional subculture
in some discord channels) i'll decide to choose my wordings carefully when i respond (not
reacting sometimes indeed is an option), and when complaining (report) to a moderator
do that openly, possibly in addition to the verbal public response. Maybe i'll also have
a look in one of this discord channels (eg engine programming) that could be fun

Meanwhile, the Tft strategy also has found not to be the very best:

and i'll see later if i can find some useful info out of this -rather theoretical-
getting someone to cooperate rather than continuing to be a piranha (or a shark)
seems to be the key, something maybe also for - future- moderators to consider
although many discussions in this thread imo alreadye have gone off-topic (quite far).

Which -again- is why i suggested to proceed with the elections, and then close this thread;
question to the FG (about the election
will either Ed or Chris, possibly after getting sufficient votes, remain as a moderator,
or are we going to get an entire new moderation 'team' (in the latter case i suggest
you wait for more candidates before going to start with the voting process.
(well that was quite on-topic again, wasn't it

[hgm]

"Tit for tat is a strategy which, according to game theory, is the most effective choice for iterated games based on mutual cooperation or defection. Both players benefit if they cooperate, but one benefits and the other loses out if only they defect, and both lose out to a lesser extent if they simultaneously defect."

That is a mathematical fact of no relevance here, as neither a moderated forum nor civilized societies are such a game. When the rules of the game are such that after a loss because of opponent defection you can invoke a higer power which then will invert the outcome, tit for tat becomes a highly inferior strategy, and defection even more costly.

[towforce]

...responding, as this may of value for some other members as well (those sometimes being viciously attacked without any apparent reason)...

They had this sussed out in 1830 (link): "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me". Reacting in any way to rudeness is feedback - and feedback encourages more of the behaviour. When people are rude to me, it means nothing - and I sleep like a baby at night.

[towforce]

Come on folks, two more - one of them someone whom people actually want, and we're good to go!

You worried, that they'll just appoint you without the need for any elections instead?

He'll still be given a week's interrogation in the "Questions for the candidate moderators" thread.

[jefk]

tf wrote

When people are rude to me, it means nothing

well i know such methods (attitude) mr Tf, being interested lately in (the modern version of) the
philosophy stoicism. But although not being a moderator, having been for around 30 yrs in this
forum, when being insulted, i may occasionally felt a need to educate such a
a)kid(*) b)bully c)piranha d) shark e)engine programmer f) hyena f)other
(choose as applicable; combination(s) are allowed).
As written before, i'm also only human. And it's not only math, such
methods may work sometimes in biology/sociology (**), as eg. shown in this documentary

(for those who got too much time )
at 6:40 they play chess
In addition, 'invoking a higher power' (quoting hgm); assuming he meant a moderator
and not a supernatural being , reporting to a mod may be asked for when someone really
is really crossing the line, but i hope i won't have to make a habit of this in this forum,
nor would i hope for (a) future moderator(s) that they would have to deal with such
issues on a daily basis.

(*) how do you think (the majority of) fathers would react when being told but a very young
(up till teenage) son to be a "f*king retard" ? (in whatever culture, a slap in the face or so
could be expected -or worse- I guess (but we can look it up, with Ai maybe ?

(**) although it's obviously advised to choose words carefully when responding to an
insult; or something perceived as such (it's not always crystal clear) in real life, i may ask eg.
after an insult something as 'can you repeat that' or simply 'what?'. But this is a written forum
and thus things are not always that simple. Although it would be a lot more simple if we
could stick to the topic (of a thread).

[LazySMP]

Mr. Pierce will come to the rescue

The problem with trying to be the bad guy is there’s always someone worse.

[shawn]

Dr Pierce is our only hope

[shawn]

you're getting annoying Andrew, i never called someone a nazi, i only asked him .
This is for the third time; can't you read. Nb and this was only after other grave insults from
others, after which this mr Andreas joined the party (of piranhas) and
made another idiotic insinuating insult (regarding my age).

Nevertheless, it would have been worth deleting, together with the original age-related insult. But in order to intervene things should first be brought to my attention. Such mutual mud-slinging is of no interest to anyone, and as we see here it will come back time after time.

It was moderated. Context, several discord members were bullying Jef and then Jef lashed out in return, I talked to Jef and he admitted his error and promised to do better, something you seldom see! Next I informed on discord Jef was given a warning.

Cases like this led to a change in the charter, bullying no longer allowed.

OK, then why are the moderators still bullying targeted members?

[hgm]

OK, then why are the moderators still bullying targeted members?

Because it is their task to target members that make trouble?

BTW, what is this business about your name? It appears you changed it. Into something rather unlikely. Since you are supposed to use your real name, it means that you either were violating the charter when you signed up, or that you are violating it now. You'd better have a good explanation for this.

You should realize that you are quite close to outstaying your welcome here. I have looked at your postings, and virtually none of those is about computer chess. Most of those appear to intend making trouble. So it seems you don't really belong here...