Chess System Tal II & Engine Style

[mclane]

windows version:




sorry but the pictures are really ugly.

believe me, you can setup a design/layout that looks very professional and is good for the serious chess player. only that the images i found in the internet look toyish.

CSTAL (the dos more than the windows version) shows lots o information, including the search tree printed as a graph.

[fern]

The DOS version, the first of CSTAL, is a marvel. I still play it in spite of the difficulties to make it run in XP. I love very much the face of that mosbnter making grimaces according the score.
Only thing I miss is the patch that I lost time ago and so I am running the faulty vesion.
May you send it to me if you have it?
Fernando

[wbseries]

Recently I purchased a copy of Purple Software's Chess Champion (Chess System Tal II, I believe). Below is a screenshot of the copyright information from the program.







I am interested in knowing if the folder layout and small opening book for this Chess Champion program is authentic to the original named Chess System Tal II.




When I open the Chess Champion directory the below screenshot is what I see:







And when I click on the 'Datafile' folder, one of the files in the folder is labelled 'OPENING.BOK' (shown in the below screenshot). I am assuming this to be the small gambit book.







But when I go back to the directory that the 'Datafile' folder is in and click on the 'Books' folder, I see the below:







And when I click on the 'Book' folder in the above screenshot I see this:







And lastly, when I click on the 'Book' folder in the above screenshot I see this:








Does the original Chess System Tal II have this directory structure? Is the OPENING.BOK file in the Datafile folder the gambit book? If so, what are all of the other bok files for? Something to do with a learning aspect of Chess System Tal II?



There was a 500+MB opening book on the install disc and I have copied that opening book to another harddrive partition.

[mclane]

this looks like CSTAL to me. the tiny book files seem to be learned positions or lines the program saved on disc.

can you replay this and look how YOUR program plays ?

http://f50.parsimony.net/forum200336/messages/8364.htm

i am interested in THIS position:

[d] r1bq1rk1/2p2ppp/p1n5/1p1pP3/nb1P4/1B3N2/PPQ2PPP/R1B1R1K1 w - - 0 14

my CSTAL plays Ng5 after a long time of thinking.
http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=ng5y3f.jpg

hardware was intel6300.

[wbseries]

The below graphic shows the analysis results for your position on this 1000MHz Pentium III. I only let the program analyze down to the depth you had shown in the graphic.






So the OPENING.BOK file in the Datafile folder is by itself the small gambit book?

[mclane]

to me this product looks very similar to ChessSystemTal, only without the name. purple software bought CSTAL from Whittington.

[wbseries]

For anyone interested I got the copy of Chess Champion through a seller on UK Amazon.


I have never purchased a copy of this but I am 99.99% sure that this version of Chess Champion put out by a company called Softkey is also going to be Chess System Tal II.


Here's one page with a description of the Softkey version. The publisher is noted as being Mindscape but I can see the word Softkey on the graphic of the box:


http://toysandgames.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/cp ... 77728.html



The thing I like about the above versions is that they include the big opening book. Unlike some sellers that are selling Chess System Tal II spinoffs without the big book.


The thing that stinks is that there are restrictions on where companies can ship/sell software. In other words UK Amazon will only ship software to most European countries. I was totally oblivious to this restriction on software shipping until about a month ago.



I'll go ahead and mention this. Someone on UK Ebay is selling (giving away) the first Chess System Tal. I would have jumped on this myself but the seller is only shipping within the United Kingdom. I think this would be the DOS version spoken of in this thread? And a patch would be needed to make the program whole?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Chess-System-Tal- ... dZViewItem

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Chess System Tal II as well as ChessGenius Classic 7 play in my division rating list,early results at the end of this summer

[mclane]

thank you.

here a few examples how CSTAL (DOS) played 1995

[Event "Revange for Paderborn 95"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "XXXX2"]
[Black "CSystem Tal"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. e4 b6 2. d4 Bb7 3. Bd3 e6 4. Ne2 c5 5. c3 d5 6. exd5 Qxd5 7. Nf4 Qd7 8. dxc5
Bxc5 { oh - this is of course a position CSTal likes very much!} 9. O-O Nf6 10. Re1 O-O 11. c4 e5 12. Nh3 Rd8 13. Be2 Qc8 {oops - white gets into trouble....} 14. Nd2 Bxg2 { ! Ha ! played with a score of 3.63 !! and from the first second of the search-process !! Standard Tal-move ....you could see the flickering in Martins' eyes when I told him Tals evaluation-....} 15.
Kxg2 e4 16. Qc2 Qf5 {as discussion started if this sac was accurate. Evaluation of XXXX2 said: no this sac was stupid....} 17. Nf1 Nc6 18. Ng3 Qc8 19. Nxe4 { chess system tal says: this move was bad, no we can hit back... } Nxe4 {cstal evaluation is +1.63} 20. Qxe4 Re8 21. Qd3
Nb4 { many moves have gone since the first sac. Nothing is forced. But this is the problem: a search based program can only defend against something, that can be SEEN in the tree. Here nothing can be seen, therefore XXXX2 is not overprotecting much. + 0,76 evaluation} 22. Qd1 {evaluation +0,79 after this move. Chess System Tal feels well in this position because it knows about the fact that the king is exposed heavily and it is just a few steps to die here, other programs counting material would see it different} Qf5 23. Bf3 Nc2 {+1,12} 24. Rxe8+ Rxe8 25. Bd2 Nxa1 {CSTals eval says +1,73 } 26. Qxa1 Qg6+ {and still the problem is : the king is exposed. Moves and moves have gone, but the main problem that was build with Bxg2 is on the board. CSTal increases evaluation to +2.68 and higher because another defending piece - the queen on a1 - is far away from the main-point of the game} 27. Ng5 {horizont}
h6 {CSTal says +3,09} 28. h4 Qd3 {+4,47 !!} 29. Qc1 hxg5 {+4,42} 30. hxg5 Re5 {found late, before Rd8 was considered with 5.03, now Re5 was played with +5,80} 31. Bh5 {Martin still cannot believe, I guess.} Qe4+ {+8,51 says CSTal.}32. f3 Qh4 {+7,93} 33. f4 Re4 34.
Qh1 Qf2+ {Martin must have nerves like iron CSTal says +10,48 pawns} 35. Kh3 Rd4 36. Qa8+ {no lost game without revange-check! CSTal says +12,62 and plays...} Bf8 37. Bxf7+ Kxf7 38. Qb7+ Be7 {+13,77 pawns up and here Martin has enough... } 0-1

Wasn't this an unbelievable game ???


We discussed much in Den Haag. I met Don Daily, who is a nice guy working on the CILK-CHESS project. I guess this program has more chances ever to win against Kasparov than any other program.

Don Daily likes to implement chess-knowledge into his parallel-program. Although he had only a small notebook with him, we played some games, I wanted to know about cilk-chess - of course - and the best way to find out about a program is to watch the games, and watch the evaluations and main-lines.

[Event "?"]
[Site "15'game"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "1"]
[White "CSTal v231"]
[Black "Cilkchess 1CPU"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Ndb5 {+0,50} d6 7. Bg5 {+0,39} a6 8.
Na3 b5 9. Bxf6 {+0,25} gxf6 10. Nd5 {+0,20} f5 11. Bd3 {first seconds CSTal considered about Bxb5, I was very nervous. NONONO I tried to hypnotize it} Be6 12. Qh5 {of course here we come again in a kind of position Tal likes more... +0,95} Bg7 13. O-O f4 14. c4 {+1,02} bxc4
15. Bxc4 {+1,39} O-O 16. Rac1 Rb8 17. b3 {cstal did not decided to eat with Bxa6} Qa5 18. Nb1 Kh8 19. Nbc3 f5 20. Rfd1 {temptation here was Ne7 Bxc4 and difficult stuff. I don't know why Rook-move came in the end...} Bd7 21.
Rd2 fxe4 22. Nxe4 {+2,40} Bf5 23. Ndc3 Nd4 24. Ng5 {+2,05} Bg6 25. Qh3 Bf6 26. Nge4 Bxe4 27.
Nxe4 d5 28. Nxf6 {+2,61} Rxf6 29. Bd3 Rf7 30. Rcd1 {+1,62} Rg8 31. Qh5 Rfg7 32. Bxh7 {+4,41 !! It looks that cilk has overseen some tactical stuff that is TAL's favourite job: fishing threads arround the king....never try to do king-attack stuff with cstal as opponent.} Rxg2+ 33.
Kh1 {+6,81} Rg1+ 34. Rxg1 Rxg1+ 35. Kxg1 Qxd2 {cstal evaluated finally +7,42 main-line says:Bd3+ Kg7 Qxe5+ Kf7 Qxd5+ Ke7 Qc5+ Ke6 Qb6+ Kd5 Bc4+ Ke5 Qc7+ Kf6 Qf7+ Ke5 Qe7+ Kf5 ...and strange stuff} 1-0

What a funny position on board!

As you now see Rolf, CSTal is almost always good for a spectacular sac or a promising undercover-job.
Here comes another sacrificial game....

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "2"]
[White "CSystem Tal"]
[Black "Cilk-chess 1CPU"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bg5 a6 8.
Na3 b5 9. Nd5 {+0,49} Qa5+ 10. Bd2 {+0,62} Qd8 11. Nxf6+ Qxf6 12. Be3 Be6 13. Nxb5 {oh no - here it comes, +0,17 for this tiny little sac} axb5 14.
Bxb5 Kd7 {here the king is there where we wanted him to be...} 15. Qd2 {+2,51} Qg6 16. f3 {+2,46} Be7 17. a3 {+1,24} f5 18. Bxc6+ {+3,06} Kxc6 19. exf5 Bxf5 20. g4 {+0,88 ugh - its not easy to fight against cilk-chess. Score goes up and down...}
Be6 21. O-O-O {but Tal is watching us in heaven and sometimes sending HELPING hands...} Ra4 22. f4 {sometimes you must give a pawn to bluff, and sometimes to fool the opponent} Bxg4 {Ha ! Bluff worked!!} 23. Qd5+ {+2,39 the bishop e6 made anything so safe in blacks area, now, having taken the poisened pawn, the game turns into the right direction, so that IN THE END the sac on b5 was alright - he - only joking here...} Kc7 24. Bb6+ {another piece is thrown in his mouth. Will he eat it too ?? +0,60 fail-high. Thats indeed the game of the feeding Tal.} Kxb6 25. Qb3+ Kc7 26. Qxa4
Qh6 27. Qa7+ { +2,20 and Tal feeling in his element....} Kd8 28. Qb8+ {+2,22} Bc8 29. Kb1 {not to forget the king-safety. +3,02 for this little move...} exf4 30. Rhe1 {+4,16} Re8 31. Qb6+ {+10,02 Just a few little moves and the game is over...} Kd7 32. Qa7+ {+9,10}
Kd8 33. Qa5+ {+9,75} Kd7 34. Qb5+ {don't worry, we will not give check-check-check and draw like in Paderborn against the spanish program, we fixed this bug !! } Kd8 35. Rd3 Bg4 36. Qb8+ {cannot tell you evaluation, must be mate announced or something....} Kd7 37. Qb7+ Kd8 38. Rc3 1-0


You see, with chess system tal the boring days of computerchess are over.

We will never see games where no side of the players have an idea, this is the step into funny games....

Of course it is much more complicated to win with black....

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Cilk-chess 1CPU"]
[Black "CSystem Tal"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d5 3. c4 c6 4. e3 e6 5. Bd3 Nbd7 6. O-O dxc4 7. Bxc4 Bd6 {-0,41} 8.
Nc3 Nb6 9. Bd3 O-O 10. e4 Be7 11. Bg5 Ng4 {-0,80} 12. Bxe7 Qxe7 13. h3 Nh6 14. Rc1 Rd8
15. Re1 e5 {-0,47} 16. dxe5 Kh8 {+0,03} 17. Re3 Be6 18. Re2 Qb4 {-0,02} 19. Rd2 Qa5 20. b3 Nd7 21. Be2
Nxe5 {-0,16 } 22. Nxe5 Rxd2 23. Nxf7+ {he cilk - we are Tal, not you !!} Nxf7 24. Qxd2 Rd8 {-0,26} 25. Qe3 a6 26. f4 Qb4 27. Kh2
Qe7 {the programs are fishing arround, nothing special...CSTal tries to activate it's queen. A queen needs a king to mate...} 28. g3 Qf6 29. e5 Qh6 30. h4 Qg6 {-0,90, CSTal is not satisfied with the position. Will Cilkchess win this game?} 31. b4 Nh6 {0,00 ! Tal feels something coming} 32. Qb6 {Ha - I told Don that this is brilliant! Now CSTal feeds Cilk with UNIMPORTANT pawns. The Bronstein-method of handling with computerchess. Don laughed, but maybe he did not believed it right here ?} Rd2 {+0,53 CSTal on it's way making a win!} 33. Qxb7 {unimportant pawn number 1. +1,18 says CSTal. } Qd3 34.
Qa8+ Ng8 {+1,34} 35. Qxc6 {unimportant pawn number 2} Bg4 {+2,03 and Tal in good mood! 3 pawns less but having an attack...} 36. Qg2 Bxe2 {+2,80} 37. Nb1 Rb2 {+2,88} 38. a3 Qe3 39. Re1 Ra2 40. h5
Nh6 41. Qa8+ Ng8 42. Qg2 Qd3 {+2,91} 43. Nc3 Qxc3 {+2,16} 44. Rxe2 Rxa3 45. e6 {+2,38} Ne7 46. Rc2 Qf6 {+1,94}
47. Qa8+ Ng8 48. Qe4 Qd8 49. Qe2 Ra1 {+2,17} 50. h6 {Hu - the trouble comes nearer ! Good to know that Tal works also to defend own king-position, not only to attack with it....+2,13} Qd5 51. hxg7+ Kxg7 52. Qg4+ Kh8 53.
Kh3 h5 {+4,44} 54. Qg6 Rh1+ {+4,48} 55. Rh2 Qf3 {+2,97} 56. Qc2 Rg1 {+3,93} 57. Qg6 Qf1+ {+4,39} 58. Kh4 Qxf4+ {+4,09} 59. gxf4
Rxg6 60. f5 Rg4+ {+1,05} 61. Kxh5 Nf6+ {+1,19} 62. Kh6 Rg3 63. Rh1 Ng8+ 64. Kh5 Kg7 {+1,91} 65. Kh4 Rg2
66. Rf1 Kf6 {+4,14} 67. Kh3 Rb2 68. Rf3 Rxb4 69. Ra3 Rb6 70. Ra5 Ne7 71. Kg4 Nc6 {+4,75} 72.
Ra4 a5 {+5,15} 73. Re4 Rb4 {+6,69} 74. Kg3 Rxe4 {+19,79} 0-1

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Thanks for the games Thorsten,the games of these 2 programs are played manualy,but this will not stop me