The Inside Story on Rybka

[playjunior]

Vasik will make what he thinks best and no one can change that....

"All engine authors are equal, but Vasik is more equal than the others".
Vasik! Vasik!

[rfadden]

Vasik will make what he thinks best and no one can change that....

Sorry but I don't believe that at all. Do you realize that before late 2005 Vas was just a regular guy like the rest of us and here's is why I'm saying that...

Back when I first started trying to figure out what was in Rybka I used a search to find all of Vas's posts here, going back years before. Man that was so cool! He was on here with ideas and people were treating him like a nobody (just like us) and he was giving these semi-wild ideas on the techniques he wanted to pursue, and franlky he sounded almost like me. I'm a creative type and he's creative...

So then after he really got famous I was noticing that he seemed to remain very down to earth. Like I mentioned previously his comments seemed understated and modest.

Also I have read postings on the Rybka forums from Vas and there he posts what he is thinking and he's like a regular guy. So if someone here offers the opionion that Vas will do only what he comes up with... I would say "No Way!" Vas is a member of the community and he listens to people and he's a really nice guy. I don't think success has gone to his head.

So my guess is that once the "Exact Details" of his Obfuscation are out in the open (and that's what I posted) then I think Vas will seriously consider updating the Rybka code.

Ok, another angle: let's say Vas is thinking how to sell copies of Rybka and how to keep the money coming in... As it gets around that there is a deliberate "thingy" inside every copy of Rybka well that's not good for business. I think he naturally will change this just so people won't say "you still got that bad thing inside Rybka?" and "why don't you remove that bad thing because I want to see an actual count of something real, and I want to see real depth."

Yes Vas is a very reasonable, smart, and nice guy, and he probably really doesn't like his own Obfuscation code, he probably wanted to remove it at some point but most likely he had no way to bring up the topic and then move on to a correct output.

So if we all let Vas know that "the jig is up" and we know the exact details of this Obfuscation, then he may get tired of this issue and then just start writing "straight" code.

I am a developer and I would "fret" over an obfuscation if I had put something like this in an early version of a system such as this. After a while I would just want a fresh start. Just get rid of the piece of poo that is still in every copy of Rybka... Especially do not copy the poo into version 3 of Rybka! Man... !

[Terry McCracken]

Vasik will make what he thinks best and no one can change that....

Sorry but I don't believe that at all. Do you realize that before late 2005 Vas was just a regular guy like the rest of us and here's is why I'm saying that...

Back when I first started trying to figure out what was in Rybka I used a search to find all of Vas's posts here, going back years before. Man that was so cool! He was on here with ideas and people were treating him like a nobody (just like us) and he was giving these semi-wild ideas on the techniques he wanted to pursue, and franlky he sounded almost like me. I'm a creative type and he's creative...

So then after he really got famous I was noticing that he seemed to remain very down to earth. Like I mentioned previously his comments seemed understated and modest.

Also I have read postings on the Rybka forums from Vas and there he posts what he is thinking and he's like a regular guy. So if someone here offers the opionion that Vas will do only what he comes up with... I would say "No Way!" Vas is a member of the community and he listens to people and he's a really nice guy. I don't think success has gone to his head.

So my guess is that once the "Exact Details" of his Obfuscation are out in the open (and that's what I posted) then I think Vas will seriously consider updating the Rybka code.

Ok, another angle: let's say Vas is thinking how to sell copies of Rybka and how to keep the money coming in... As it gets around that there is a deliberate "thingy" inside every copy of Rybka well that's not good for business. I think he naturally will change this just so people won't say "you still got that bad thing inside Rybka?" and "why don't you remove that bad thing because I want to see an actual count of something real, and I want to see real depth."

Yes Vas is a very reasonable, smart, and nice guy, and he probably really doesn't like his own Obfuscation code, he probably wanted to remove it at some point but most likely he had no way to bring up the topic and then move on to a correct output.

So if we all let Vas know that "the jig is up" and we know the exact details of this Obfuscation, then he may get tired of this issue and then just start writing "straight" code.

I am a developer and I would "fret" over an obfuscation if I had put something like this in an early version of a system such as this. After a while I would just want a fresh start. Just get rid of the piece of poo that is still in every copy of Rybka... Especially do not copy the poo into version 3 of Rybka! Man... !

Have you talked to Vas about this? Have you aired this in the Rybka forum?

If so what answers did Vas provide?

[Graham Banks]

So if we all let Vas know that "the jig is up" and we know the exact details of this Obfuscation, then he may get tired of this issue and then just start writing "straight" code.

I am a developer and I would "fret" over an obfuscation if I had put something like this in an early version of a system such as this. After a while I would just want a fresh start. Just get rid of the piece of poo that is still in every copy of Rybka... Especially do not copy the poo into version 3 of Rybka! Man... !

I'm not a programmer, but my point of view is that as long as an engine author isn't trying to hide anything illegal, then how he writes his or her code is his or her business and nobody else's.
As long as the finished product plays good chess and preferably gives the thinking lines and evaluation, isn't that all that should really concern us?
Just my opinion of course.

Regards, Graham.

[Bill Rogers]

First of all the guys that are complaining about Rybak are just acting like little kids who want the lolly pops. Vas created a superior program. The one that they are examining are his Beta release and they have no idea what is in his new version or what he does but he has a superior program which no one can deny.
If I were Val I would tell these little malcontents to go home to thier mommies and play with their own toys.
In my own program if someone suggested a way to make it stronger or play better I might listen but to have someone tell me to do something like what these kids are implying should be done, I would just teill them to go to H..l. What I put in my program or how I program it is my business and none of theirs. If they don't like it then go play with someones else programs.
Vals hasn't replied to their comments because he it to polite but don't ask me to respond the same way. They only thing you are doing is yelling like a little kid trying to get attention. Grow up.

[Albert Silver]

So, in a nutshell, the Inside Story is your 'revelation' that the node count is wrong, and the solution is for him to release Rybka 1.2f with this fixed?

Deep.

Albert

[geots]

First of all the guys that are complaining about Rybak are just acting like little kids who want the lolly pops. Vas created a superior program. The one that they are examining are his Beta release and they have no idea what is in his new version or what he does but he has a superior program which no one can deny.
If I were Val I would tell these little malcontents to go home to thier mommies and play with their own toys.
In my own program if someone suggested a way to make it stronger or play better I might listen but to have someone tell me to do something like what these kids are implying should be done, I would just teill them to go to H..l. What I put in my program or how I program it is my business and none of theirs. If they don't like it then go play with someones else programs.
Vals hasn't replied to their comments because he it to polite but don't ask me to respond the same way. They only thing you are doing is yelling like a little kid trying to get attention. Grow up.

Damn, i like your style of getting straight to the point. (You and I would get along well)


Best,

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

First of all the guys that are complaining about Rybak are just acting like little kids who want the lolly pops. Vas created a superior program. The one that they are examining are his Beta release and they have no idea what is in his new version or what he does but he has a superior program which no one can deny.
If I were Val I would tell these little malcontents to go home to thier mommies and play with their own toys.
In my own program if someone suggested a way to make it stronger or play better I might listen but to have someone tell me to do something like what these kids are implying should be done, I would just teill them to go to H..l. What I put in my program or how I program it is my business and none of theirs. If they don't like it then go play with someones else programs.
Vals hasn't replied to their comments because he it to polite but don't ask me to respond the same way. They only thing you are doing is yelling like a little kid trying to get attention. Grow up.

Damn, i like your style of getting straight to the point. (You and I would get along well)


Best,

Yeah,me too and I feel his avatar thrilling through my brain at the same time

[rfadden]

The node count is totally bugus, the NPS is bogus and the Depth that the program shows on each line of output is deliberately wrong. Add 2 to the depth of each line of output.

Vas could switch to his own internal correct node counts in a few seconds, and then all following versions of Rybka would be correct.

About fixing old versions... ok just forget that... whatever...

[rfadden]

First of all the guys that are complaining about Rybak are just acting like little kids who want the lolly pops. Vas created a superior program. The one that they are examining are his Beta release and they have no idea what is in his new version or what he does but he has a superior program which no one can deny.
If I were Val I would tell these little malcontents to go home to thier mommies and play with their own toys.
In my own program if someone suggested a way to make it stronger or play better I might listen but to have someone tell me to do something like what these kids are implying should be done, I would just teill them to go to H..l. What I put in my program or how I program it is my business and none of theirs. If they don't like it then go play with someones else programs.
Vals hasn't replied to their comments because he it to polite but don't ask me to respond the same way. They only thing you are doing is yelling like a little kid trying to get attention. Grow up.

The obfuscation code seems to be in every version of Rybka.

This is basically a lie written in software. I'm a professional developer from way back and I'm saying Rybka is my favorite program of all time. I'm also a customer and I would like this wonderful product to stop continuing to include the lie that has been encoded in the program since the 1.0 beta version (the beginning for Rybka).

I haven't been here complaining about Rybka in the past. I kept this secret for two years, man... I have waited patiently.

I've been on CCC since nearly the beginning but I haven't posted in years.

What's that about a lolipop? No, I'm on a diet.

Ha!