rybka 1.0 and plaggerism: has the case been compiled yet

[Rolf]

BTW I also lived in Surabaya for over 50 years. Since when is "oops" a prove, Peter Aloysius? And and. <lol>

P.S. Please read again my message or you would gonna miss what I have really written in edit mode. <g>

[slobo]

Here are few ideas that you can easily memorize(without talking about code).
1)average between opening and endgame evaluation.
2)evaluating mobilities based on number of squares that the piece can go into them.
3)giving higher weight for mobility of minor pieces.

People can clearly memorize more than it and they can also memorize code patterns(without memorizing the exact source).

ummm, isn't that common sense? Are you gonna say that queen should valued higher than knight is based on Fruit too? Is queen valued 900, rook 500, knight and bishop 300, based on Fruit too?

You can say that if somebody memorize code patterns he is not allowed to use them.
I will express no opinion about it but you have no way to prove that rybka started from fruit if this is what you try to convince us.

I believe that memorizing every line of fruit is clearly impossible for humans but nobody claims that it happened and even some similiar codes that you posted were clearly not identical.

Uri

What I say is, IF, someone find a lot of similiarities code between Fruit and Rybka, folks here WILL say that Vas able to memorize the whole fruit source code, or just coincidence, or variable names is different, or whatever ridiculous reason to defend Rybka.

Well, they did that already.
See : http://64.68.157.89/forum/viewtopic.php ... =&start=20

There's no way they let Rybka and Strelka get verdict as not original, whatever the evidences are, since they were too strong.

And by the way, I DO NOT try to convince you that Rybka is based on Fruit. I just DO NOT like the way you defend Rybka, I don't like all ridiculous reason you made just to defend Rybka, and I don't like personal attack to Bob, Christophe, and other decompiler.

I hope that you wont gonna gonna emotionally overheated because if you consider for a moment what you actually have in your "hands", you dont gonnagonna accuse and insult someone as a proven culprit, am I right? Because Uri gave you some minor importent little small reasons how that we actually know - also could be interpreted. But you sounded as if you wanted that we all would gonna into smear activities against Vas simply because you have decided that you would never ever gonna give Vas a fair chance of a fair debate.

Let me tell you and also all of your allies who are thinking along a similar track: you all are basically making a verdict on "facts" whose interpretation is ambiguous but not forcedly the only possible one could gonna make. Hence in such a case you can ask questions, you can repeat it if you couldnt understand, but you are not allowed to turn the question on its head as if all who are patiently waiting on better evidence would have mean intentions to defend a proven culprit, more, to praise such a culprit as a holy man. What you simply are missing, that is the logic, why someone is held innocent as long as he wasnt proven guilty. What you also confuse is that your questions and insults against many here is by no means gonna establish proof and verdict. What you do is a sort of daydreaming and hoping that your dreams are gonna become true.

Thanks Uri, for stating the selfunderstood logical rational of the case.

Oops, sorry Rolf. I forgot that it was YOU who made up all ridiculous reason to defend Rybka.

And now you just simply keep saying "innocent until proven guilty" no matter how many prove presented.

Yes, I aware of principle "innocent until proven guilty". But, If it is a trial to Vas, You folks doing whatever you can to keep the prove away, you folks made personal attack to someone who trying to present a prove, you folks keep rejecting a prove without actually looking.

Is that fair? You don't want a fair trial, and now you say "innocent until proven"?

Good argumentation.
IMHO Rybka´s author did nothing wrong from the moral standpoint.
From the ethical stanpoint, however, he should pay some money to Fruit´s author for using some Fruit´s ideas and codes.

[Rolf]

Well done Slobo! Moral nothing wrong but Ethic unless money flows... Makes sense.

[bob]

most probably, whatever prove they gonna have, no matter how convincing it, you guys still reject it.

I think people will be responsive to the evidence. You are making an assumption here..



J

in this case, surely not. You guys gonna defend Rybka and Strelka at all cost. Saying it's just purely coincidence, or vas able to memorize all Fruit source code, the decompiler just jealous, or whatever creative reason that might come into your mind.

See people reaction here? Personal attack to Bob, Christophe, Zach, and others?

Rybka is not identical to fruit so no need to memorize everything.
Memorizing some patterns may explain similiarity.

If you read and understand fruit then you can clearly remember some ideas even if you write from scratch.

Here are few ideas that you can easily memorize(without talking about code).
1)average between opening and endgame evaluation.
2)evaluating mobilities based on number of squares that the piece can go into them.
3)giving higher weight for mobility of minor pieces.

People can clearly memorize more than it and they can also memorize code patterns(without memorizing the exact source).


You can say that if somebody memorize code patterns he is not allowed to use them.
I will express no opinion about it but you have no way to prove that rybka started from fruit if this is what you try to convince us.

I believe that memorizing every line of fruit is clearly impossible for humans but nobody claims that it happened and even some similiar codes that you posted were clearly not identical.

Uri

It is _way_ beyond time to stop this line of reasoning. Why don't you take some free-source programs, and look to see how much similarity you find? See if you find identical arrays of evaluation constants. Large blocks of code that are identical. Even an identical bug here and there. You keep saying it is very likely. You should be able to prove that, there are dozens of programs to choose from, so the similarities should be rampant if your supposition is anywhere near reality...

[bob]

There was no absolute proof that Vas copied anything.
Bill

Bill, Im surprised at you. You know full well that in this smear campaign truth is completely irrelevant. Innuendos are considered a success. The idea was only to drag Vas' name and reputation thru the mud. And if it had not been for the wiseness and expertise of Chris Whittington- that is exactly what would have happened. This thing needs to die a calm and peaceful death and just fade away like an old soldier.

Best,

So once again, you return, with nothing useful to say at all, and use some form of clairvoyance to read the minds of others so that you can categorically state exactly what their intentions were/are...

Things will unfold at the pace they unfold at, not at the pace you want...

[slobo]

Well done Slobo! Moral nothing wrong but Ethic unless money flows... Makes sense.

Yes, because moral is linked to social rules and laws.
Ethic is linked to what we are.

Who makes money flows is Rybka´s author,
so, if it is his system of values, then he should share his money flow
with the author whose ideas, and codes, he is using.

[Graham Banks]

Wrong lion Terry.

[Kaj Soderberg]

Hey guys,

Great pictures, and i mean it.
However, it remains to be seen if Vas did not violate rules with the first version of Rybka.
And now relax all, it only has to do with the first steps of the magnificent, and again i mean it, Mighty Fish.
Vas will not suffer any real harm, and anyway, he is a superb programmer, The Man at this time.
It is a question of principle and obeying law and order.
Cornerstones of civilization.
I do not want to harm Vas, but acting blind by the masses is not a virtue.
Gesundes Volksempfinden does not work.
Time to say how things are, say sorry and shake hands, and move on.

Cheers,

Kaj

[geots]

There was no absolute proof that Vas copied anything.
Bill

Bill, Im surprised at you. You know full well that in this smear campaign truth is completely irrelevant. Innuendos are considered a success. The idea was only to drag Vas' name and reputation thru the mud. And if it had not been for the wiseness and expertise of Chris Whittington- that is exactly what would have happened. This thing needs to die a calm and peaceful death and just fade away like an old soldier.

Best,

So once again, you return, with nothing useful to say at all, and use some form of clairvoyance to read the minds of others so that you can categorically state exactly what their intentions were/are...

Things will unfold at the pace they unfold at, not at the pace you want...

When i try to describe what is spewing from your mouth- it gets deleted by one of your dear friends. I guess the truth hurts, Lord Hyatt.

[Zach Wegner]

Personal attacks are still not tolerated. Most likely this post will get deleted as well if someone complains. Keep it civil.