Refutation of Theories From 4 Mousquetiers - Holy or not?

[Ovyron]

In short, there is no meaning.

If this is true why people keep replying to Rolf?

[bob]

Can anyone make a short description of Rolf's post.
English is not my mother language and I don't feel like reading it entirely.

He has a room full of monkeys typing 24 hours a day. When one types something that appears to make some sort of syntactical sense, he posts it here. In short, there is no meaning. It is just an attempt to keep a topic alive that he claims he wants to die, but really doesn't..

Sorry but this is wrong. Sure also the thread could well die but my concern is and always was how the underlying campaign against Vas/Rybka could be either lead into a serious scientific research in peace without insults and suppositions or the topic could be finished because also someone like you realisesd how damaging the whole is for computerchess, also in a sense that real talents are kept away from their own potentially super strong entities. But I already explained all that. You are a teacher and you can follow that like a big puzzle or a season in Americaqn football. You have a safe existence but these young or not so young guys should soon be able to make a living.

But exactly because you are a scientist and teacher, Bob, please decide if it couldnt be of help for all the lays, the interested and also other experts. if you would describe a process flow with different issues and possible decisions, and then giving the potentially maximum of what we could expect to come out of it all. Also in relation to the newest versions of the program if you have the first under the microscope.

Following what Dann has written, I have still hope that normally you must realise that practically not much will come out of it. So still another reason to make a decision, to halt this procedure. Fabien isnt interested much, so, where is the beef?

I know that this all was already thought through, also by you in debate with ChrisW. But again, couldnt you make a closing message with how you would describe the whole process how it could happen in real future?

Hey, one of my monkeys has bitten me. He was astonished about the good idea I was telling you.

I am going to say this only one more time. The "beef" is this: Competition is based on "fair play" and "playing by the rules". Nothing more, nothing less. If someone copied parts of another program, they become "clones" that can not participate in most CC events. It is also about fairness. Others develop strong engines without copying code. So if this case turns out to be a case of copying source, it _is_ a problem, whether you like it or not does not matter one scintilla. It is not about a person, or about anything other than playing by rules we have been using for almost 40 years...

Is it _really_ that hard to grasp the point. Whether or not I give someone permission to copy crafty, or whether or not I am bothered if someone copies crafty source without my permission is _not_ the point. Those of us involved in computer chess competition "get this". Those that are not, apparently "do not get it" for the most part...

Nothing I can do about that.

[bob]

In short, there is no meaning.

If this is true why people keep replying to Rolf?

Some apparently have a faint hope that we might one day set him straight on some of this stuff. You'd think we would know better after 10+ years of this nonsense...

[Graham Banks]

I am going to say this only one more time. The "beef" is this: Competition is based on "fair play" and "playing by the rules". Nothing more, nothing less. If someone copied parts of another program, they become "clones" that can not participate in most CC events. It is also about fairness. Others develop strong engines without copying code. So if this case turns out to be a case of copying source, it _is_ a problem, whether you like it or not does not matter one scintilla. It is not about a person, or about anything other than playing by rules we have been using for almost 40 years...

Is it _really_ that hard to grasp the point. Whether or not I give someone permission to copy crafty, or whether or not I am bothered if someone copies crafty source without my permission is _not_ the point. Those of us involved in computer chess competition "get this". Those that are not, apparently "do not get it" for the most part...

Nothing I can do about that.

Let's hope that some of the other "top" engines come under the same close scrutiny.

[bigo]

This will play out at its own pace, regardless of what is written, posted or demanded. Everyone just has to wait. Or else pitch in to help speed the process up.

The danger I see from my perspective as a social science expert is that because you hold open such a case the hurting of the reputation of Vas will go on with your assistance. And you want to justify it with your expertise as a computer scientist? Dont you see the legal and humanitarian aspect of the whole thing? Also what would this mean if you could show something in Rybka 1.0? You are potentialy damaging Rybka versions 3 and later. Is this intentional? Graham asked similar questions but nobody of the researchers gives answers. Is that sound application of compiling etc.? Also as a amost last question, were you surprised that the other players and also the organisers ICGA did NOT doubt the legal state of Rybka 3 playing there actually? What is your comment?

Let me repeat it in all clarity why people should ask the legitimacy of the activities of the 4 experts:

If they had started their examinations in private, also as a team, then it would have been fine, but to come here and at first alarming everybody and having no case yet, just assumptions and then going into closet to examine further gives the alarmed members a right to ask what they are really doing right now because the smear campaign without proving anything would call for public apologies and perhaps more.

So, everybody should realise that this is no longer a privacy thing of four innocent activists, no, it's now the period where something either must be found quickly or the whole campaign must be stopped for ever. Rybka 1.0 was three years ago, Bob, please get real. Thanks and Peace again.

Rolf you certainly seem to take the mask off these so-called scientists and expose them for what they really are, a bunch of jealous losers who realize they will never have half the talent of Vas and hate him because of it and we are led to believe this is just innocent scientific curiousity. Usually I have a heard time understanding you, but you came through this time clear and powerful! I've got a new respect for you.

Shalom!

[Terry McCracken]

Ok Enough! It's Time to Lock this Damn Thread!

[icander]

In short, there is no meaning.

If this is true why people keep replying to Rolf?

Some apparently have a faint hope that we might one day set him straight on some of this stuff. You'd think we would know better after 10+ years of this nonsense...

I gave up years ago.

[Tony Thomas]

If I were a mod, the thread would have been deleted as soon as it was posted. Is it me or is he trying to call Bob, Zach and CT Mosquitos. I doubt that anyone who has eaten a musketeer bar would spell it wrong.

[Tony Thomas]

Can anyone make a short description of Rolf's post.
English is not my mother language and I don't feel like reading it entirely.

He has a room full of monkeys typing 24 hours a day. When one types something that appears to make some sort of syntactical sense, he posts it here. In short, there is no meaning. It is just an attempt to keep a topic alive that he claims he wants to die, but really doesn't..

Bang!


Post of the century, we shall make a movie out of this idea..

[mclane]

In short, there is no meaning.

If this is true why people keep replying to Rolf?

would you like to see you or your friends beeing insulted without comment ?