Interfacing the Novag Citrine

[sje]

White resigned on move 47, but play continued for testing purposes.

The Citrine will output "Mate In N" messages on its LCD display unit, but these aren't sent over the serial link to a controlling computer.

The nodes/second display was observed to have values in the 3,000 Hz to 12,000 Hz range with a middlegame average of about 4,500 Hz.

The pieces do not have to be physically moved during autoplay. However, if a cat happens to knock over a few, then the pieces must not be set up again in the starting array as this will cause the autoplay to be canceled and the game memory to be reset.

Code: Select all

[Event "Autoplay test"]
[Site "At home"]
[Date "2008.10.18"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Novag Citrine"]
[Black "Novag Citrine"]
[Result "0-1"]
[TimeControl "40/9000"] 

1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e4 e5 4. Nf3 exd4 5. Bxc4 Bb4+ 6. Bd2 Bxd2+ 7. Nbxd2 Nc6
8. O-O Qf6 9. e5 Qg6 10. Bb5 Ne7 11. Nxd4 O-O 12. N2f3 Nxd4 13. Qxd4 Bh3 14.
Nh4 Qg5 15. Qe4 Rad8 16. Rac1 c6 17. Bd3 g6 18. Kh1 Bg4 19. g3 Qh5 20. Rfe1 Rd7
21. Bc4 Rd2 22. Qe3 Rfd8 23. Qxa7 Nf5 24. Nxf5 Qxf5 25. e6 Qf3+ 26. Kg1 Bxe6
27. Bxe6 fxe6 28. Rc3 Qf6 29. Rb3 R8d7 30. Qb6 Rc2 31. a3 Rdd2 32. Rf1 c5 33.
Kh1 c4 34. Rb5 Rxf2 35. Rxf2 Rxf2 36. Kg1 Rf1+ 37. Kg2 Rb1 38. Kh3 c3 39. Qxb7
Rxb2 40. Qb8+ Kg7 41. Qa7+ Kh6 42. Qe3+ Kg7 43. Qa7+ Kf8 44. Qc5+ Kg8 45. Qc8+
Kg7 46. Qc7+ Kh6 47. Qc4 Rxb5 48. Qxb5 Qf5+ 49. Qxf5 exf5 50. g4 c2 51. gxf5
gxf5 52. a4 c1=Q 53. Kg3 Qg1+ 54. Kf4 Qg4+ 55. Ke3 f4+ 56. Kf2 Qh3 57. Kg1 Qe3+
58. Kh1 f3 59. h4 Qf2 60. a5 Qg2# 0-1

[Steve B]

The nodes/second display was observed to have values in the 3,000 Hz to 12,000 Hz range with a middlegame average of about 4,500 Hz.

are you sure about the 12000 nps figure?
i have played tons of games against the Le Citrine(either myself or against other dedicateds) and have never seen a count that high even in endgames with only K and pawns on the board
your 4500 NPS figure is quite accurate though

i wonder if this could somehow be a result of your interfacing with a PC?
i never do that of course so i guess its possible??

Startled Regards
Steve

[sje]

are you sure about the 12000 nps figure?

Yes, up to 12,000. I have seen figures of 11,000+ in simple endgames.

Try:

[d]4k3/8/8/4p3/4p3/8/8/4K3 w - - 0 1

Which in Novag-speak is: "Pcke1bpe4pe5ke8+".

Set the level to AN8 (16 ply, square e8) and watch the NPS display.

[Steve B]

Yes, up to 12,000. I have seen figures of 11,000+ in simple endgames.

Try:

[d]4k3/8/8/4p3/4p3/8/8/4K3 w - - 0 1

Which in Novag-speak is: "Pcke1bpe4pe5ke8+".

Set the level to AN8 (16 ply, square e8) and watch the NPS display.

ok will verify your result soon

right now i have my latest acquisition occupying the very valuable real estate on my desk and i am close to a brilliant mate resulting from a "Tal "Like Sacrificial attack

the Ultra Rare..
CXG Sphinx Supra:


Mikhail Sends His Regards
Steve

[sje]

Another position, the famed "computers will never solve this endgame from Fine's BCE":
[d]8/k7/3p4/p2P1p2/P2P1P2/8/8/K7 w - - 0 1

Which to the Citrine via the serial link is: Pcka1pa4pd4pf4pd5bpa5pf5pd6ka7+

The Citrine reports NPS numbers in the 8 KHz range. However, after completing its "infinite" level (actually, only 16 ply), the Citrine gets the wrong answer (1. Kb2 instead of 1. Kb1) and so only draws.

I remember the old Super Constellation that I seem to recall had a rather deeper 24 ply search limit. I would set up an endgame position and let it run all weekend without having it terminate its search due to a depth limit.

[Steve B]

ok i can verify your results
Le Citrine zoomed right to 13 ply and was smokin 11500+ NPS at the analysis level
I also tested it on another level (30 SEC/MOVE) just to be certain with the same results

it is a bit of a pain having to first set up all of the pieces and then remove them one by one by hand in order to set up a position
there really needs to be a "clear board" function for position setups

Btw.. I happen to be a proud owner of one of those enlongated cables for the Display unit which i of course thank Sir Bryan Whitby for

Trust ..But Verify Regards
Steve

[sje]

it is a bit of a pain having to first set up all of the pieces and then remove them one by one by hand in order to set up a position
there really needs to be a "clear board" function for position setups

Btw.. I happen to be a proud owner of one of those enlongated cables for the Display unit which i of course thank Sir Bryan Whitby for

Yes, the Citrine manual interface has a few quirks. But with the serial link, position set up is easy.

Without using a serial link, I suppose one could construct a physical template of 32 small magnets glued to some stiff poster board that could immediately force the Citrine to a "new game" state.

One nice touch with the Citrine: with manual play, after the machine moves just pick up its king and put it back down on the same square; this tells the machine to switch sides.

[sje]

Back in the mid 1980s, the Super Constellation was reported to be the first dedicated chess computer to be able to handle the KBNK endgame and to do this at five seconds per move. Back then, this was quite an accomplishment.

Here's how the Citrine, SC's descendant, does the job:
[d]4k3/8/8/8/8/8/8/2B1K1N1 w - - 0 1

Code: Select all

[Event "Autoplay"]
[Site "At home"]
[Date "2008.10.18"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Novag Citrane"]
[Black "Novag Citrane"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Setup "1"]
[FEN "4k3/8/8/8/8/8/8/2B1K1N1 w - - 0 1"]

1. Kd2 Kf7 2. Bb2 Ke6 3. Ne2 Kd6 4. Bd4 Kc6 5. Ke3 Kd6 6. Ke4 Kc6 7. Ng3 Kd6 8.
Be5+ Kc6 9. Kd4 Kb5 10. Nf5 Kb4 11. Bd6+ Kb3 12. Kd3 Kb2 13. Nd4 Kc1 14. Kc3
Kd1 15. Bg3 Kc1 16. Nf5 Kb1 17. Be5 Ka2 18. Kb4 Kb1 19. Ne3 Ka2 20. Ka4 Kb1 21.
Kb3 Kc1 22. Bc3 Kb1 23. Bd2 Ka1 24. Nc2+ Kb1 25. Na3+ Ka1 26. Bc3# 1-0

Interestingly, on Black's first move the Citrine saw what was coming and resigned.

[pgeorges]

Btw.. I happen to be a proud owner of one of those enlongated cables for the Display unit which i of course thank Sir Bryan Whitby for

Steve

Hi,

Could you please give details on this cable ? Is it something home made or bought somewhere ?

Pascal Georges

[Steve B]

Btw.. I happen to be a proud owner of one of those enlongated cables for the Display unit which i of course thank Sir Bryan Whitby for

Steve

Hi,

Could you please give details on this cable ? Is it something home made or bought somewhere ?

Pascal Georges

Entirely home made by member here Bryan Whitby as far as i know
you might want to PM him to find out how to make one
Sir Bryan (as we collectors call him) makes a hobby out of improving chess computers cosmetically
his latest garden shed creation:
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 10&t=23844

Longer is better regards
Steve