David Dahlem wrote:I agree, Dr. D. I would like to see some proof or evidence instead of claims and accusations.
Regards
Dave
This is not the Rybka Forum. Whatever you want, I would ask for it there.
Well, yes, but ... i've seen a lot of accusations "here", and they may have some merit, but i've seen no evidence or proof. From all i've read here, it seems to be unclear what would constitute proof.
Regards
Dave
What would constitute proof for you David? I mean just you. I know what does it for me. Many things of which the following is just one tiny little thing. You remember Vladimir Yelin don't you?
Remember we spoke about him? It was a long time ago (not in a forum) I seem to recall. Now see this......
Q. IPPOLIT pursues previous ships?
A. True, with KAISSA, Crafty, Fruit/Toga/Rybka/Strelka, etc. Yet beyond solely saponification from predescendants.
Kaissa? Why Kaissa? Kaissa was closed source and by Vladimir Yelin. Alex said that the UCI parser was very similar to that of Kaissa. Do you know something? There are also the time loses.
Here is Frank Quisinsky writing somewhere else......
If I remember me on times we developed Patriot, Vladimir made the same mistakes with ponder and time controls. The older Patriot versions losed on times, cann't playing - or later correct playing - with ponder = on. Two facts more !!
Of course there are the politics as well. I think we can safely say that Vladimir was not a Republican.
Interesting no? Now if Vladimir Yelin was the one who made Ippolit, would you trust it?
Anyway, as Dann says you could always mail the "author". To put a sticky here in CCC is a ludicrous suggestion. Best laugh I've had all day.
Christopher
I believe that Vladimir yelin has not enough talent to develop ippolit.
Modifying programs with existing source code is relatively easy and it is not the same as modifying programs without source.
Can you use the exe of Crafty(without looking at the source code) to generate C code that can play chess different than Crafty?
I simply have no idea how to do it and the task of generating your own engine seems to be easier for me.
David Dahlem wrote:I agree, Dr. D. I would like to see some proof or evidence instead of claims and accusations.
Regards
Dave
This is not the Rybka Forum. Whatever you want, I would ask for it there.
Well, yes, but ... i've seen a lot of accusations "here", and they may have some merit, but i've seen no evidence or proof. From all i've read here, it seems to be unclear what would constitute proof.
Regards
Dave
What would constitute proof for you David? I mean just you. I know what does it for me. Many things of which the following is just one tiny little thing. You remember Vladimir Yelin don't you?
Remember we spoke about him? It was a long time ago (not in a forum) I seem to recall. Now see this......
Q. IPPOLIT pursues previous ships?
A. True, with KAISSA, Crafty, Fruit/Toga/Rybka/Strelka, etc. Yet beyond solely saponification from predescendants.
Kaissa? Why Kaissa? Kaissa was closed source and by Vladimir Yelin. Alex said that the UCI parser was very similar to that of Kaissa. Do you know something? There are also the time loses.
Here is Frank Quisinsky writing somewhere else......
If I remember me on times we developed Patriot, Vladimir made the same mistakes with ponder and time controls. The older Patriot versions losed on times, cann't playing - or later correct playing - with ponder = on. Two facts more !!
Of course there are the politics as well. I think we can safely say that Vladimir was not a Republican.
Interesting no? Now if Vladimir Yelin was the one who made Ippolit, would you trust it?
Anyway, as Dann says you could always mail the "author". To put a sticky here in CCC is a ludicrous suggestion. Best laugh I've had all day.
Christopher
I believe that Vladimir yelin has not enough talent to develop ippolit.
Modifying programs with existing source code is relatively easy and it is not the same as modifying programs without source.
Can you use the exe of Crafty(without looking at the source code) to generate C code that can play chess different than Crafty?
I simply have no idea how to do it and the task of generating your own engine seems to be easier for me.
Werewolf wrote:This has already been done on the Rybka site, Vas has said it is a clone!
Statements or proofs ?
When Rybka 3 will be a free source code the experts will be able to do an accurate comparison.Until now every very strong free engine can be suspected and every strong commercial chess engine will be an honest one ! Without any proof.
Dann Corbit wrote:Have you bothered to send an email to the Engine X authors and ask them?
I guess that such a request will clear up the confusion in a jiffy.
Cute,but not funny at all....
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
Werewolf wrote:This has already been done on the Rybka site, Vas has said it is a clone!
Aha,so I see that you are spelling the holly words:
Vas said it's a clone....
I say I don't believe Vas anymore....
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
David Dahlem wrote:I agree, Dr. D. I would like to see some proof or evidence instead of claims and accusations.
Regards
Dave
This is not the Rybka Forum. Whatever you want, I would ask for it there.
Well, yes, but ... i've seen a lot of accusations "here", and they may have some merit, but i've seen no evidence or proof. From all i've read here, it seems to be unclear what would constitute proof.
Regards
Dave
What would constitute proof for you David? I mean just you. I know what does it for me. Many things of which the following is just one tiny little thing. You remember Vladimir Yelin don't you?
Remember we spoke about him? It was a long time ago (not in a forum) I seem to recall. Now see this......
Q. IPPOLIT pursues previous ships?
A. True, with KAISSA, Crafty, Fruit/Toga/Rybka/Strelka, etc. Yet beyond solely saponification from predescendants.
Kaissa? Why Kaissa? Kaissa was closed source and by Vladimir Yelin. Alex said that the UCI parser was very similar to that of Kaissa. Do you know something? There are also the time loses.
Here is Frank Quisinsky writing somewhere else......
If I remember me on times we developed Patriot, Vladimir made the same mistakes with ponder and time controls. The older Patriot versions losed on times, cann't playing - or later correct playing - with ponder = on. Two facts more !!
Of course there are the politics as well. I think we can safely say that Vladimir was not a Republican.
Interesting no? Now if Vladimir Yelin was the one who made Ippolit, would you trust it?
Anyway, as Dann says you could always mail the "author". To put a sticky here in CCC is a ludicrous suggestion. Best laugh I've had all day.
Christopher
Well,I am quite happy that You've laughed so much....honestly....
But the more laughable is the fact that I see people warshiping a piece of software and it's maker and are ready to believe anything he wants them to believe in without bothering himself to respect them and give them clear answers when a major issue like this surface the computer chess scene....
Have fun with your new religion....
Dr.D
Last edited by Dr.Wael Deeb on Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
Leto wrote:The proof is that the strength is at least similar to that of Rybka 3. The likelyhood of releasing a brand new engine that just happens to be about as powerful as the strongest closed-source engine without stealing code from that engine is practically impossible.
Creating a chess program is a very complex procedure, most people can't do it. It's hard to believe that unknown programmers somehow managed to make an engine about as powerful as Rybka 3 less than a year after Rybka 3's release, and even harder to believe that these mystery programmers don't want to get paid for it.
Perhaps they don't want to get paid for it because they know any money they'd get would be dirty money.
Alright,I agree....let the author of the strongest chess engine speak up and tell us the truth....how the source code was stolen,what is exactly the situation of the new released stolen engine,etc....
Empty words from a bunch of blind sect followers won't do the trick....no more....
The silence of Vasik Rajlich,yet again,is annoying not say unrespectful for his fans and clients....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
Leto wrote:The proof is that the strength is at least similar to that of Rybka 3. The likelyhood of releasing a brand new engine that just happens to be about as powerful as the strongest closed-source engine without stealing code from that engine is practically impossible.
Creating a chess program is a very complex procedure, most people can't do it. It's hard to believe that unknown programmers somehow managed to make an engine about as powerful as Rybka 3 less than a year after Rybka 3's release, and even harder to believe that these mystery programmers don't want to get paid for it.
Perhaps they don't want to get paid for it because they know any money they'd get would be dirty money.
They're anonymous because they're breaking the law and probably haven't got the guts to say who they are. However, despite the trail of deception, I imagine there are ways to eventually expose the culprits. I know that some are working on it and making progress, so stay tuned. You might be shocked.
One thread that is starting to make sense to me,coming from a close friend of mine....thanks Graham
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
The silence of Vasik Rajlich,yet again,is annoying not say unrespectful for his fans and clients....
It was made very clear in the Rybka forum it is a clone, there's even a sticky about. They don't allow discussion, which is understandable, given that every Ippolit download can hurt Rybka sales.
Calling an author (which does identify himself, unlike the cloner) a liar and then demanding that he explain in a way that you can understand (which is nontrivial and would take quite some time) just exactly how you know the engine is a clone (which will unavoidably pinpoint some key tricks/differences in Rybka) is UNRESPECTFUL OF YOU, not Vasik.
Why is it the job of the honest author whose work as stole to meticulously explain how the thief did what he did (thereby perhaps helping other thieves)?
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Well,I am quite happy that You've laughed so much....honestly....
But the more laughable is the fact that I see people warshiping a piece of software and it's maker and are ready to believe anything he wants them to believe in without bothering himself to respect them and give them clear answers when a major issue like this surface the computer chess scene....
Have fun with your new religion....
Dr.D
It was the same with Strelka. No matter what anyone says people are just going to do what suits them. In the very first post about Strelka you were all told what it was and it's origins. That did not stop long and very boring threads like this.
As to hero worship of Vas? No. I believe what I see and if I need to be reassured about it, I ask various people who probably know even better than me.
