I think this is very common on FICS but ICC (chessclub.com) is pretty aggressive about going after (C)heaters. So the incidence appears to be less there. Also human players seem to be bolder about cheating against engines than against other humans. But that's just in my own unscientific sample.
--Jon
Online Cheaters
Moderator: Ras
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jdart
- Posts: 4405
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:23 am
- Location: http://www.arasanchess.org
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bnemias
- Posts: 373
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:21 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM
Re: Online Cheaters
This question has a lot of issues:
1) There are a number of bots running who advertise themselves as such. I don't consider this cheating. I actually run a few of them, one 24/7 running MSCP as a guest on FICS.
I never run unadvertised bots that seek or respond to seeks. In fact, I go to great lengths these days to help prevent people from playing bots who don't want to. But you soon discover that if you want to run a bot, it's unavoidable to play some number of people who don't want to play bots. Their GUI isn't set up to easily filter out the seeks, if that's even possible, and some people don't read the messages the bot sends identifying itself. (In some cases, presumably because people have communication disabled due to rude behavior by guests.)
Consulting the logs is pretty funny though. The first thing you discover is that bots that advertise themselves as bots get all manner of rude comments compared to bots that don't. My natural reaction to that is maybe it's best to not advertise bots-- that way people won't get so irritated. I dunno. I generally think the truth is best, even though people get huffy about bots that are honest and not about bots that aren't.
2) There are several guest accounts running strong engines on good hardware 24/7 who don't advertise themselves as bots. I don't know if they are engaged in research, trying to convince people that FICS guests are all cheaters, or what, but one thing I've learned is that anything stronger than MSCP beats guests as easily as Rybka. So to invest in real hardware and software and use over 8 watts of power to beat guests is insanely overkill. But anyway, the effect here is there are always some bots running at FICS. They play a LOT of games combined, and so even though they represent a small minority (I'd say < 5% as per the poll), they encounter real people much more frequently than that. So this issue greatly influences how you vote.
3) I don't know about other servers besides FICS, but FICS could stand some policy changes to accommodate people who like running unrated engines. One problem I have is there's no way to run an unrated engine and easily allow people to filter out its seeks. About the best you can do is issue manual seeks and give a tell/kibitz that they are playing a bot. There simply aren't any good facilities for organizing play between unrated bots. And yet some registered bot owners get mad at you when you try to play them unrated. They apparently prefer to slaughter guests unrated (when as discussed above, they might as well be running gnuchess-- same result) than to play another bot unrated for testing purposes.
4) What I consider the real issue is people who use computers for assistance in their own games. That's a very different question than running bots, and also a very different number.
1) There are a number of bots running who advertise themselves as such. I don't consider this cheating. I actually run a few of them, one 24/7 running MSCP as a guest on FICS.
I never run unadvertised bots that seek or respond to seeks. In fact, I go to great lengths these days to help prevent people from playing bots who don't want to. But you soon discover that if you want to run a bot, it's unavoidable to play some number of people who don't want to play bots. Their GUI isn't set up to easily filter out the seeks, if that's even possible, and some people don't read the messages the bot sends identifying itself. (In some cases, presumably because people have communication disabled due to rude behavior by guests.)
Consulting the logs is pretty funny though. The first thing you discover is that bots that advertise themselves as bots get all manner of rude comments compared to bots that don't. My natural reaction to that is maybe it's best to not advertise bots-- that way people won't get so irritated. I dunno. I generally think the truth is best, even though people get huffy about bots that are honest and not about bots that aren't.
2) There are several guest accounts running strong engines on good hardware 24/7 who don't advertise themselves as bots. I don't know if they are engaged in research, trying to convince people that FICS guests are all cheaters, or what, but one thing I've learned is that anything stronger than MSCP beats guests as easily as Rybka. So to invest in real hardware and software and use over 8 watts of power to beat guests is insanely overkill. But anyway, the effect here is there are always some bots running at FICS. They play a LOT of games combined, and so even though they represent a small minority (I'd say < 5% as per the poll), they encounter real people much more frequently than that. So this issue greatly influences how you vote.
3) I don't know about other servers besides FICS, but FICS could stand some policy changes to accommodate people who like running unrated engines. One problem I have is there's no way to run an unrated engine and easily allow people to filter out its seeks. About the best you can do is issue manual seeks and give a tell/kibitz that they are playing a bot. There simply aren't any good facilities for organizing play between unrated bots. And yet some registered bot owners get mad at you when you try to play them unrated. They apparently prefer to slaughter guests unrated (when as discussed above, they might as well be running gnuchess-- same result) than to play another bot unrated for testing purposes.
4) What I consider the real issue is people who use computers for assistance in their own games. That's a very different question than running bots, and also a very different number.
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Steve B
- Posts: 3697
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:26 pm
Re: Online Cheaters
Interesting poll result
with 30 votes in (as i write) just as many feel that the incidence of cheating is 50% or greater as those that feel it is 5% or less
a wide difference of opinion
pretty much echoed in the comments to the thread as well with some members claiming cheating is almost non-existent while others say it is fairly common
it must have something to do with the time controls one normally plays at ..but i dont think it has anything to do with ones chess server of choice
50-50 Regards
Steve
with 30 votes in (as i write) just as many feel that the incidence of cheating is 50% or greater as those that feel it is 5% or less
a wide difference of opinion
pretty much echoed in the comments to the thread as well with some members claiming cheating is almost non-existent while others say it is fairly common
it must have something to do with the time controls one normally plays at ..but i dont think it has anything to do with ones chess server of choice
50-50 Regards
Steve