Fascinating chess position

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderator: Ras

User avatar
Houdini
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:00 am

Re: Fascinating chess position

Post by Houdini »

Robert Flesher wrote:
Houdini wrote:
ernest wrote:
rabbits wrote:It certainly does Robert. I might have to get myself a faster computer
No need... Just let your test last longer.

Actually, with my Houdinis (1.5a, 2.0c) I dont'get Robert's result, and stay miserably with (-0.38) :(
You must run to around search depth 40 to find the solution.
My Houdini 2.0c is running now and shows the fail high at search depth 39, I'll post the PV once it's available.

Robert

Heya Robert, how did I originally get a solution so fast? Is it because I first played over the moves/solution doing my own analysis, but at the same time running Houdini in infinite analysis mode? Did Houdini remember/preserve this information in its hash tables, and therefore find the win so fast when I first ran it?
Yes, if you didn't clear the hash table the faster solution is probably coming from your previous analysis.

Here's the over-night solution with Houdini 2.0c run using 2 cores of a Core i5-750, 2048 MB of hash and 5-men EGTB:

Code: Select all

 36/76	22:46 	-0.40 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kd6 5.Ke3 Kc6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Nf6 10.Ke2 Kc8 11.Kd1 Ne4 12.Ke2 Kb7 13.Ke3 Kc7 14.Ke2 Kc6 (6.258.334.964) 4580  TB:15.555
 37/79	48:13 	-0.40 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kd6 5.Ke3 Kc6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Nf6 10.Ke2 Kc8 11.Kd1 Ne4 12.Ke2 Kb7 13.Ke3 Kc7 14.Ke2 Kc6 (13.467.815.150) 4655  TB:48.426
 38/79	65:50 	-0.40 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kd6 5.Ke3 Kc6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Nf6 10.Ke2 Kc8 11.Kd1 Ne4 12.Ke2 Kb7 13.Ke3 Kc7 14.Ke2 Kc6 (18.861.045.251) 4773  TB:90.515
 39/80	94:28 	-0.45++	1...Ne4 (27.481.386.878) 4848  TB:137.200
 39/80	99:47 	-0.58++	1...Ne4 (28.967.739.298) 4837  TB:139.012
 39/81	107:47 	-0.85++	1...Ne4 (31.183.986.007) 4821  TB:142.056
 39/86	167:40 	-1.77++	1...Ne4 (48.276.706.056) 4798  TB:195.176
 39/107	566:17 	-3.93 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Nd6 5.Ke3 Nb5 6.Bd2 Na3 7.Bc1 Nb1 8.Bb2 a3 9.Ba1 Kd6 10.Ke2 Kc6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 13.Bb2 axb2 14.Kxb1 Kf3 (174.462.208.370) 5134  TB:1.063.050
 40/107	572:42 	-3.93 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Nd6 5.Ke3 Nb5 6.Bd2 Na3 7.Bc1 Nb1 8.Bb2 a3 9.Ba1 Kd6 10.Ke2 Kc6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 13.Bb2 axb2 14.Kxb1 Kf3 (176.572.485.474) 5138  TB:1.068.660
 41/107	656:46 	-3.93 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Nd6 5.Ke3 Nb5 6.Bd2 Na3 7.Bc1 Nb1 8.Bb2 a3 9.Ba1 Kd6 10.Ke2 Kc6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 13.Bb2 axb2 14.Kxb1 Kf3 (205.033.518.151) 5202  TB:1.228.454
And here a run with 16 slower Opteron 6128 cores and 8192 MB of hash:

Code: Select all

 38/73	10:21 	-0.40 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Kd6 10.Ke2 Ke7 11.Ke3 Kf7 12.Ke2 Kf6 13.Ke3 Ke7 14.Ke2 Kd6 (11.558.765.811) 18606
 39/79	21:55 	-0.40 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Kd6 10.Ke2 Ke7 11.Ke3 Kf7 12.Ke2 Kf6 13.Ke3 Ke7 14.Ke2 Kd6 (25.567.792.456) 19438
 40/79	34:39 	-0.45++	1...Ne4 (41.299.370.423) 19863
 40/79	38:29 	-0.58++	1...Ne4 (44.663.542.087) 19335
 40/79	43:35 	-0.85++	1...Ne4 (49.404.840.161) 18885
 40/96	87:59 	-1.77++	1...Ne4 (91.771.622.892) 17382
 40/115	319:18 	-4.46++	1...Ne4 (327.315.943.696) 17084
 40/117	558:10 	-4.95 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Nd6 5.Ke3 Nb5 6.Bd2 Na3 7.Bc1 Nb1 8.Bb2 a3 9.Ba1 Kc6 10.Ke2 Kd6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 13.Bb2 axb2 14.Kxb1 Kf3 (572.623.854.098) 17098
 41/117	588:51 	-4.95 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Nd6 5.Ke3 Nb5 6.Bd2 Na3 7.Bc1 Nb1 8.Bb2 a3 9.Ba1 Kc6 10.Ke2 Kd6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 13.Bb2 axb2 14.Kxb1 Kf3 (608.685.080.528) 17227
The key to the solution is 6...Na3, 7...Nb1, 8...a3 followed by a King triangle.

Robert
Top
zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Fascinating chess position

Post by zullil »

zullil wrote:
ernest wrote:
zullil wrote:And don't try Stockfish.
Hi Louis,

Can you try Houdini?
No, sorry. I don't use Houdini. I'll try Critter, but I'm not hopeful.
Well, after hours Critter seems to be onto to something, but I need to terminate the search now. I haven't the time to analyze this now, but it appears to differ from the posted approach:

Code: Select all

39/130+ 493:22 368159248704 12436953  +4.58 Ne4 Ke2 Kd5 Ke3 Kd6 Ke2 Kc6 Kd1 a3 Ke2 Kc7 Ke3 Kd7 Ke2 Kc8 Ke3 Kc7 Ke2 Kc6 Kd1 Kd6 Ke2 Kd5 Ke3 Nd6 Kf2 Kc6 Ke3 Nc8 Bd2 Nb6 Kf2 Kd5 Ke2 Na4 Kf1 Kd6 Ke2 Kc6 Kf1 Kd5 Ke1 Nb2 Ke2 Nd3 Be3 Kd6 Kd2 Kc6 Kd1 Nb2+ Ke2 Kb7 Bc1 Kc7 Kf1 Na4 Bd2 Kc6 Ke2 Kd6 Kf1 Nb2 Ke1 Kc6 Be3 Nd3+ Kd2 Kd5 Ke2
Top
Robert Flesher
Posts: 1290
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am

Re: Fascinating chess position

Post by Robert Flesher »

Houdini wrote:
Robert Flesher wrote:
Houdini wrote:
ernest wrote:
rabbits wrote:It certainly does Robert. I might have to get myself a faster computer
No need... Just let your test last longer.

Actually, with my Houdinis (1.5a, 2.0c) I dont'get Robert's result, and stay miserably with (-0.38) :(
You must run to around search depth 40 to find the solution.
My Houdini 2.0c is running now and shows the fail high at search depth 39, I'll post the PV once it's available.

Robert

Heya Robert, how did I originally get a solution so fast? Is it because I first played over the moves/solution doing my own analysis, but at the same time running Houdini in infinite analysis mode? Did Houdini remember/preserve this information in its hash tables, and therefore find the win so fast when I first ran it?
Yes, if you didn't clear the hash table the faster solution is probably coming from your previous analysis.

Here's the over-night solution with Houdini 2.0c run using 2 cores of a Core i5-750, 2048 MB of hash and 5-men EGTB:

Code: Select all

 36/76	22:46 	-0.40 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kd6 5.Ke3 Kc6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Nf6 10.Ke2 Kc8 11.Kd1 Ne4 12.Ke2 Kb7 13.Ke3 Kc7 14.Ke2 Kc6 (6.258.334.964) 4580  TB:15.555
 37/79	48:13 	-0.40 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kd6 5.Ke3 Kc6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Nf6 10.Ke2 Kc8 11.Kd1 Ne4 12.Ke2 Kb7 13.Ke3 Kc7 14.Ke2 Kc6 (13.467.815.150) 4655  TB:48.426
 38/79	65:50 	-0.40 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kd6 5.Ke3 Kc6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Nf6 10.Ke2 Kc8 11.Kd1 Ne4 12.Ke2 Kb7 13.Ke3 Kc7 14.Ke2 Kc6 (18.861.045.251) 4773  TB:90.515
 39/80	94:28 	-0.45++	1...Ne4 (27.481.386.878) 4848  TB:137.200
 39/80	99:47 	-0.58++	1...Ne4 (28.967.739.298) 4837  TB:139.012
 39/81	107:47 	-0.85++	1...Ne4 (31.183.986.007) 4821  TB:142.056
 39/86	167:40 	-1.77++	1...Ne4 (48.276.706.056) 4798  TB:195.176
 39/107	566:17 	-3.93 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Nd6 5.Ke3 Nb5 6.Bd2 Na3 7.Bc1 Nb1 8.Bb2 a3 9.Ba1 Kd6 10.Ke2 Kc6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 13.Bb2 axb2 14.Kxb1 Kf3 (174.462.208.370) 5134  TB:1.063.050
 40/107	572:42 	-3.93 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Nd6 5.Ke3 Nb5 6.Bd2 Na3 7.Bc1 Nb1 8.Bb2 a3 9.Ba1 Kd6 10.Ke2 Kc6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 13.Bb2 axb2 14.Kxb1 Kf3 (176.572.485.474) 5138  TB:1.068.660
 41/107	656:46 	-3.93 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Nd6 5.Ke3 Nb5 6.Bd2 Na3 7.Bc1 Nb1 8.Bb2 a3 9.Ba1 Kd6 10.Ke2 Kc6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 13.Bb2 axb2 14.Kxb1 Kf3 (205.033.518.151) 5202  TB:1.228.454
And here a run with 16 slower Opteron 6128 cores and 8192 MB of hash:

Code: Select all

 38/73	10:21 	-0.40 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Kd6 10.Ke2 Ke7 11.Ke3 Kf7 12.Ke2 Kf6 13.Ke3 Ke7 14.Ke2 Kd6 (11.558.765.811) 18606
 39/79	21:55 	-0.40 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Kd6 10.Ke2 Ke7 11.Ke3 Kf7 12.Ke2 Kf6 13.Ke3 Ke7 14.Ke2 Kd6 (25.567.792.456) 19438
 40/79	34:39 	-0.45++	1...Ne4 (41.299.370.423) 19863
 40/79	38:29 	-0.58++	1...Ne4 (44.663.542.087) 19335
 40/79	43:35 	-0.85++	1...Ne4 (49.404.840.161) 18885
 40/96	87:59 	-1.77++	1...Ne4 (91.771.622.892) 17382
 40/115	319:18 	-4.46++	1...Ne4 (327.315.943.696) 17084
 40/117	558:10 	-4.95 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Nd6 5.Ke3 Nb5 6.Bd2 Na3 7.Bc1 Nb1 8.Bb2 a3 9.Ba1 Kc6 10.Ke2 Kd6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 13.Bb2 axb2 14.Kxb1 Kf3 (572.623.854.098) 17098
 41/117	588:51 	-4.95 	1...Ne4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Nd6 5.Ke3 Nb5 6.Bd2 Na3 7.Bc1 Nb1 8.Bb2 a3 9.Ba1 Kc6 10.Ke2 Kd6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 13.Bb2 axb2 14.Kxb1 Kf3 (608.685.080.528) 17227
The key to the solution is 6...Na3, 7...Nb1, 8...a3 followed by a King triangle.

Robert

Ok, that explains it! I tried an overnight search with Houdini 1.5, and it crashed. I guess I will have to purchase 2.0. :wink:
Top
rabbits
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Fascinating chess position

Post by rabbits »

Me too Robert.
Allan
Top
Waschbaer
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:27 pm

Re: Fascinating chess position

Post by Waschbaer »

Houdini 2 found a winning line really fast.

AMD PhenomII X6 1090T 3.2GHz

Neue Partie
8/8/2k1pn2/5p2/p1pP1Pp1/2P1K1P1/P7/4B3 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Houdini 2.0c Pro x64 Ana 8GB:

1...Se4 2.Ke2 a3 3.Ke3 Kd6 4.Ke2 Kd5 5.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 7/11 00:00:03 1kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 a3 3.Ke3 Kd6 4.Ke2 Kd5 5.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 8/11 00:00:03 2kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 9/11 00:00:03 4kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 10/14 00:00:03 4kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 11/14 00:00:03 6kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 12/14 00:00:03 9kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kb6 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd5 9.Ke3 Kd6 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 13/16 00:00:03 15kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kb6 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd5 9.Ke3 Kd6 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 14/20 00:00:03 27kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kb6 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd5 9.Ke3 Kd6 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 15/20 00:00:03 40kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kb6 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kb7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 16/20 00:00:03 63kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kb6 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kb7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 17/20 00:00:03 97kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kb6 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kb7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 18/25 00:00:03 154kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc6 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 19/30 00:00:03 250kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc6 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 20/30 00:00:03 407kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc6 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 21/35 00:00:03 580kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 22/35 00:00:03 894kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 23/41 00:00:03 1868kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 24/41 00:00:03 2530kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 25/42 00:00:03 5953kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 26/43 00:00:04 8441kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 27/48 00:00:04 13617kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 28/52 00:00:05 26289kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 29/55 00:00:09 69260kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 30/57 00:00:12 101mN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 31/57 00:00:18 172mN, tb=4
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 32/60 00:00:29 319mN, tb=17
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd5 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kb6 9.Ke3 Kc7 10.
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 33/65 00:00:46 521mN, tb=33
1...Se4
=/+ (-0.45 ++) Tiefe: 34/67 00:01:12 840mN, tb=62
1...Se4
=/+ (-0.58 ++) Tiefe: 34/67 00:01:17 902mN, tb=62
1...Se4
-/+ (-0.85 ++) Tiefe: 34/67 00:01:26 1012mN, tb=62

1...Se4
-+ (-1.77 ++) Tiefe: 34/80 00:02:18 1648mN, tb=302
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Sd6 5.Ke3 Sb5 6.Ld2 Sa3 7.Lc1 Sb1 8.Lb2 a3 9.La1 Kd6 10.
-+ (-4.25) Tiefe: 34/118 00:12:12 9101mN, tb=51262

1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Sd6 5.Ke3 Sb5 6.Ld2 Sa3 7.Lc1 Sb1 8.Lb2 a3 9.La1 Kd6 10.
-+ (-4.25) Tiefe: 35/118 00:12:46 9519mN, tb=53422
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Sd6 5.Ke3 Sb5 6.Ld2 Sa3 7.Lc1 Sb1 8.Lb2 a3 9.La1 Kd6 10.
-+ (-4.25) Tiefe: 36/118 00:14:59 11149mN, tb=59593
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Sd6 5.Ke3 Sb5 6.Ld2 Sa3 7.Lc1 Sb1 8.Lb2 a3 9.La1 Kd6 10.
-+ (-4.25) Tiefe: 37/118 00:17:31 13035mN, tb=68221
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Sd6 5.Ke3 Sb5 6.Ld2 Sa3 7.Lc1 Sb1 8.Lb2 a3 9.La1 Kd6 10.
-+ (-4.25) Tiefe: 38/118 00:20:16 15025mN, tb=74999
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Sd6 5.Ke3 Sb5 6.Ld2 Sa3 7.Lc1 Sb1 8.Lb2 a3 9.La1 Kd6 10.
-+ (-4.25) Tiefe: 39/118 00:24:17 18067mN, tb=81296
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Sd6 5.Ke3 Sb5 6.Ld2 Sa3 7.Lc1 Sb1 8.Lb2 a3 9.La1 Kd6 10.
-+ (-4.25) Tiefe: 40/118 00:36:30 27412mN, tb=128072
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Sd6 5.Ke3 Sb5 6.Ld2 Sa3 7.Lc1 Sb1 8.Lb2 a3 9.La1 Kd6 10.
-+ (-4.25) Tiefe: 41/118 00:50:46 38306mN, tb=189454
1...Se4
-+ (-4.43 ++) Tiefe: 42/118 01:38:47 76138mN, tb=508453
1...Se4
-+ (-4.78 ++) Tiefe: 42/118 02:55:21 136609mN, tb=1163737
1...Se4
-+ (-5.74 ++) Tiefe: 42/118 07:49:43 375361mN, tb=5103878

(W, 20.12.2011)
Top
zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Fascinating chess position

Post by zullil »

Waschbaer wrote:Houdini 2 found a winning line really fast.
Parallel search is non-deterministic. Perhaps you got "lucky." If you can, search the same position several times, each time with a clear hash table. Let us know if these searches also result in really fast solutions.
Top
Jouni
Posts: 3907
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm
Full name: Jouni Uski

Re: Fascinating chess position

Post by Jouni »

In second position "ply-champion" finds solution:

Analysis by Stockfish 111026 64bit:
...
1...Nd6 2.Be1 Ne4 3.Ke2 Kd6 4.Kd1 Ke7 5.Kc2 Kd7 6.Kb2 Kc6 7.Ka3 Kb5 8.Kb2 Nd6 9.Kc1 Kb6 10.Kd1 Kc6 11.Kd2 Kd7 12.Kc2 Kc8 13.Kc1 Kb7 14.Kd2 Kc6 15.Ke2 Ne4 16.Ke3 Kd5
-/+ (-0.76) Depth: 49/64 00:00:19 55432kN
1...Na3 2.Bc1 Nb1 3.Bb2 Kc6 4.Ke2 a3 5.Ba1 Kd6 6.Ke3 Kd5 7.Ke2 Ke4 8.Kf2 Kd3
-/+ (-0.84 ++) Depth: 50/65 00:00:29 81469kN
1...Na3 2.Bc1 Nb1 3.Bb2 Kc6 4.Ke2 a3 5.Ba1 Kd6 6.Ke3 Kd5 7.Ke2 Ke4 8.Kf2 Kd3
-/+ (-0.92 ++) Depth: 50/65 00:00:31 86028kN
1...Na3 2.Bc1 Nb1 3.Bb2 Kc6 4.Ke2 a3 5.Ba1 Kd6 6.Ke3 Kd5 7.Ke2 Ke4 8.Kf2 Kd3
-/+ (-1.05 ++) Depth: 50/65 00:00:35 97949kN
1...Na3 2.Kf2 Ke4 3.Ke2 Nb1 4.Be1 a3 5.Kf1 Kd3
-/+ (-1.23 ++) Depth: 50/65 00:00:40 108mN
1...Na3 2.Bc1 Nb1 3.Bb2 Kc6 4.Ke2 a3 5.Ba1 Kd6 6.Ke3 Kd5 7.Ke2 Ke4 8.Ke1 Kd3
-+ (-1.50 ++) Depth: 50/65 00:00:51 135mN
1...Na3 2.Ke2 Nb1 3.Be1 Ke4 4.Kf2 Kd3
-+ (-1.91 ++) Depth: 50/65 00:00:57 150mN
1...Na3 2.Ke2 Nb1 3.Be1 Ke4 4.Kf2 Kd3
-+ (-2.52 ++) Depth: 50/65 00:01:39 253mN
1...Na3 2.Ke2 Nb1 3.Be1 Ke4 4.Kf2 Kd3
-+ (-3.43 ++) Depth: 50/65 00:02:16 331mN

Jouni
Top
ernest
Posts: 2059
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:30 pm

Re: Fascinating chess position

Post by ernest »

Waschbaer wrote:Houdini 2 found a winning line really fast.
I think you were very lucky (and probably I am being very unlucky on this 1st long try...)!
After 22 hours (Core2 Duo @3GHz), I only get :(
8/8/2k1pn2/5p2/p1pP1Pp1/2P1K1P1/P7/4B3 b - - 0 1
Analysis by Houdini 2.0c w32 Nlm:
............
1...Kd5 2.Bf2 Ne4 3.Be1 Kc6 4.Ke2 a3 5.Ke3 Kd5 6.Ke2 Kd6 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kc7 9.Ke3 Kd7 10.Ke2 Nf6 11.Kf2 Kc6 12.Ke2 Kd6 13.Ke3 Ne4 14.Ke2 Kd5 15.Ke3 Kd6 16.Ke2
=/+ (-0.40) Depth: 39/89 03:08:40 40892mN, tb=9022
1...Kd5 2.Bf2 Ne4 3.Be1 Kc6 4.Ke2 a3 5.Ke3 Kd5 6.Ke2 Kd6 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kc7 9.Ke3 Kd7 10.Ke2 Ke7 11.Ke3 Kd6 12.Ke2 Kd5 13.Ke3 Kd6 14.Ke2
=/+ (-0.40) Depth: 40/89 06:05:21 79612mN, tb=23241
1...Kd5 2.Bf2 Ne4 3.Be1 Kc6 4.Ke2 a3 5.Ke3 Kd5 6.Ke2 Kd6 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kc7 9.Ke3 Kd7 10.Ke2 Ke7 11.Ke3 Kd6 12.Ke2 Kd5 13.Ke3 Kd6 14.Ke2
=/+ (-0.40) Depth: 41/89 12:41:22 166607mN, tb=56566
1...Kd5 2.Bf2 Ne4 3.Be1 Kc6 4.Ke2 a3 5.Ke3 Kd5 6.Ke2 Kd6 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kc7 9.Ke3 Kd7 10.Ke2 Ke7 11.Ke3 Kd6 12.Ke2 Kd5 13.Ke3 Kd6 14.Ke2
=/+ (-0.40) Depth: 42/89 13:36:39 178901mN, tb=63669
Top
Waschbaer
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:27 pm

Re: Fascinating chess position

Post by Waschbaer »

You were right, but Houdini 2 is still very fast in finding a winning line.

I rebooted the system and after a delay of 15 minutes I started Houdini.

After startup the engine went for a different line, but it got the right line again after 1 min 45 secs




Neue Partie
8/8/2k1pn2/5p2/p1pP1Pp1/2P1K1P1/P7/4B3 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Houdini 2.0c Pro x64 Ana 8GB:

1...Se4 2.Ke2 a3 3.Ke3 Kd6 4.Ke2 Kd5 5.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 7/11 00:00:00 1kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 a3 3.Ke3 Kd6 4.Ke2 Kd5 5.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 8/11 00:00:00 2kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 9/13 00:00:00 3kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 10/13 00:00:00 4kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 11/13 00:00:00 6kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc6 5.Ke3 Kd6 6.Ke2 Kd5 7.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 12/15 00:00:00 11kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd5 9.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 13/17 00:00:00 18kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd5 9.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 14/17 00:00:00 27kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd5 9.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 15/19 00:00:00 42kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Kd6 10.Ke2
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 16/21 00:00:00 68kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Kc6 10.Ke2 Kd5 11.Ke3 Kc6 12.Ke2
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 17/21 00:00:00 107kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Ke7 10.Ke2 Ke8 11.Ke3 Kd8 12.Ke2 Kd7 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 18/25 00:00:00 164kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Ke7 10.Ke2 Kd6 11.Ke3 Kc6 12.Ke2 Kd5 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 19/27 00:00:00 237kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Ke7 10.Ke2 Kd6 11.Ke3 Kc6 12.Ke2 Kd5 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 20/32 00:00:00 366kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Ke7 10.Ke2 Kf8 11.Ke3 Kf7 12.Ke2 Ke8 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 21/32 00:00:00 558kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Ke7 10.Ke2 Kf8 11.Ke3 Kf7 12.Ke2 Ke8 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 22/38 00:00:00 879kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Ke7 9.Ke3 Kf7 10.Ke2 Kf6 11.Ke3 Ke7 12.Ke2 Kf8 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 23/39 00:00:00 1544kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Ke7 9.Ke3 Kf7 10.Ke2 Kf6 11.Ke3 Ke7 12.Ke2 Kf8 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 24/40 00:00:00 2101kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Ke7 9.Ke3 Kf7 10.Ke2 Kf6 11.Ke3 Ke7 12.Ke2 Kd7 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 25/43 00:00:00 4062kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc6 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke2 Ke7 9.Ke3 Kf7 10.Ke2 Kf6 11.Ke3 Ke7 12.Ke2 Kd7 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 26/45 00:00:00 7321kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Kd6 10.Ke2 Ke7 11.Ke3 Kf7 12.Ke2 Kf8 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 27/47 00:00:01 11932kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Kd6 10.Ke2 Ke7 11.Ke3 Kf7 12.Ke2 Kf8 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 28/49 00:00:01 20482kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Ke7 10.Ke2 Kd7 11.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 29/49 00:00:03 38517kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Ke7 10.Ke2 Kd7 11.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 30/55 00:00:04 53425kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Ke7 10.Ke2 Kd7 11.Ke3
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 31/55 00:00:07 93418kN
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Ke7 10.Ke2 Kf8 11.Ke3 Kf7 12.Ke2 Kf8 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 32/61 00:00:14 183mN, tb=3
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kc7 3.Ke3 a3 4.Ke2 Kc8 5.Ke3 Kd7 6.Ke2 Kc7 7.Ke3 Kc6 8.Ke2 Kd7 9.Ke3 Ke7 10.Ke2 Kf8 11.Ke3 Kf7 12.Ke2 Kf8 ...
=/+ (-0.40) Tiefe: 33/61 00:00:23 301mN, tb=3
1...Se4
=/+ (-0.45 ++) Tiefe: 34/63 00:00:41 552mN, tb=14
1...Se4
=/+ (-0.58 ++) Tiefe: 34/63 00:00:45 606mN, tb=14
1...Se4
-/+ (-0.85 ++) Tiefe: 34/63 00:00:53 710mN, tb=14
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Sd6 5.Ke3 Sb5 6.Ld2 Sa3 7.Lc1 Sb1 8.Lb2 a3 9.La1 Kd6 10.Ke2 Kc6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 ...
-+ (-1.67) Tiefe: 34/77 00:01:45 1406mN, tb=109
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Sd6 5.Ke3 Sb5 6.Ld2 Sa3 7.Lc1 Sb1 8.Lb2 a3 9.La1 Kd6 10.Ke2 Kc6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 ...
-+ (-1.67) Tiefe: 35/77 00:01:53 1510mN, tb=116
1...Se4
-+ (-1.76 ++) Tiefe: 36/82 00:03:07 2499mN, tb=744
1...Se4
-+ (-1.94 ++) Tiefe: 36/90 00:04:47 3839mN, tb=1852
1...Se4
-+ (-2.35 ++) Tiefe: 36/90 00:07:37 6180mN, tb=3984
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Sd6 5.Ke3 Sb5 6.Ld2 Sa3 7.Lc1 Sb1 8.Lb2 a3 9.La1 Kd6 10.Ke2 Kc6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 ...
-+ (-2.47) Tiefe: 36/92 00:11:01 8978mN, tb=6425
1...Se4 2.Ke2 Kd6 3.Ke3 Kd5 4.Ke2 Sd6 5.Ke3 Sb5 6.Ld2 Sa3 7.Lc1 Sb1 8.Lb2 a3 9.La1 Kd6 10.Ke2 Kc6 11.Kd1 Kd5 12.Kc2 Ke4 ...
-+ (-2.47) Tiefe: 37/92 00:13:36 11156mN, tb=8415

(W, 20.12.2011)
Top
ernest
Posts: 2059
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:30 pm

Re: Fascinating chess position

Post by ernest »

Waschbaer wrote:You were right, but Houdini 2 is still very fast in finding a winning line.
Amazing, depth 34!!!

In Houdini 2.0c Pro x64 Ana 8GB, what do you mean with "Ana"?
Top

Return to “Computer Chess Club: General Topics”