Debian 7

[sje]

I'm still working on switching over my Linux boxes, in each case installing everything from scratch. In the past when I used Ubuntu, the whole version upgrade vs re-install never worked quite right. Slow, too.

Having a gigabit switched LAN helps. Also, Dropbox (at https://www.dropbox.com/ free for 2 GB cloud storage) for ensuring critical files are the same for hardware reaching all the way back to old hardware, both Intel and PowerPC. Successfully running Dropbox along with the MilkyWay@Home BOINC client on each machine (including Macs) helps prove that nothing is messed up too badly.

I haven't read much about the Linux kernel changes from 2.6.32 to 3.2.0, but I assume that good things have happened. The main idea here is to not be left behind when third party software suppliers release upgrades dependent upon new kernel versions.

[mhull]

I don't have a problem with windowing systems, that has made it quite nice since I typically have many things open on my display. But it just keeps getting heavier and heavier without end. You KNOW something is wrong if you cannot even run the operating system unless you have massive hardware but the operating system should GET OUT OF THE WAY so that you can run applications.

Lubuntu is non-heavy. Configuration for peculiar hardware would be the only hassle because the GUI-config tools are less refined, being light. But once you get past that, it's smooth sailing and you're getting the latest ubuntu upgrades and patches.

[nepossiver]

I haven't looked at Debian 7, but does it have the option to run MATE? I've been using that since I switched to Linux Mint 13 and have been very happy. It' similar to Gnome 2.x except improved and it's just been getting better with the last few releases.

Mate is not on Debian repos yet, but their developers are submitting it to Debian. On Debian 7, you just have to follow Mate's install instructions and add its repos:

http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download

Mate is more than similar to Gnome 2, it is a fork.

[nepossiver]

Debian 7 was released three weeks ago and it includes the new Linux 3.2 kernel. See http://www.debian.org/ for details.

The 3.2 kernel is new only in Debian years, it is (if I am not mistaken) from January 2012. Current kernel is 3.8 or 3.9. Anyway, Debian aims to be stable, not bleeding edge.

[sje]

The 3.2 kernel is new only in Debian years, it is (if I am not mistaken) from January 2012. Current kernel is 3.8 or 3.9. Anyway, Debian aims to be stable, not bleeding edge.

And that is very much a good idea.

A story:

Back about a dozen years ago, I bought a dual Pentium 3 Intel rack mount unit with dual drives. It came with some kind of Windows server, which I immediately deleted so that I could install Red Hat Linux. Well, the box had this goofy pseudo-RAID firmware which had to activate BEFORE the usual BIOS boot sequence. And for some reason, the machine didn't handle CD-ROM booting or USB booting, so I had to make a special floppy boot disk on a separate machine. With a lot of effort and some good luck, I was able to get Red Hat up and running.

But the update process was a real pain and a few years later Red Hat ended its support for freeloaders like me and I think they ended its support of the goofy pseudo-RAID as well. And try as I might, I couldn't get any other Linux to install properly. So for about seven years, the rack mount got NO updates at all. I finally trashed it a couple of years ago.

Tip: Never buy a machine with oddball boot requirements.

[nepossiver]

When I installed Linux mint, I choose cinnamon blindly. But I wondered about MATE. Do you have an opinion about the comparison?
Miguel

Cinnamon was a bit unstable on an old laptop, but it is stable on a recent (i5 laptop from 2012) model. I use Mate on this old laptop, and it is rock-solid stable. I've used Linux Mint Debian Edition since its release, but just moved away from it and use almost plain Debian testing - I think I have only Firefox and flash plugin from Mint repos.

Both provide the "classic" desktop experience, but Cinnamon of course is much prettier. Cinnamon has a search integrated into its start menu, which is handy. Mate is plain old Gnome 2 (not under the hood, where development has been replacing old Gnome code), which I've used for many years and like.

Cinnamon still depends on some on some Gnome 3 libraries, and as it has a smaller dev team, it doens't catch up with gnome 3 development speed - latest Cinnamon (1.8 I believe) is incompatible with latest Gnome 3 (3.8). If you stick to Linux Mint, no problem, as they control the repository, but it is a potential problem for other distros.

I am happy with both, the integrated search on the start menu is a plus for Cinnamon, small memory footprint a plus for Mate.

[sje]

I have a small notebook with a relatively limited vertical pixel span and it appears that some of the Linux application GUI designers never tested their stuff with such displays. It's hard to set parameters in a dialog box when the bottom third of the box is inaccessible.

A recurring problem, particularly with network interface configuration, is the inability to get it working right with anything other than a plain DHCP setup on plain wired hardware. The configuration files have to be adjusted manually and then the regular configuration dialog gets confused with no way of telling who is at fault. There are may reports on the web from others who've had the same problems as me.

Still, Linux is far superior to Microsoft Hell. And Apple's walled garden approach becomes less attractive every day. This is why I contribute close to 10 GB of Linux distribution torrent upload daily.

[Don]

I have a small notebook with a relatively limited vertical pixel span and it appears that some of the Linux application GUI designers never tested their stuff with such displays. It's hard to set parameters in a dialog box when the bottom third of the box is inaccessible.

Wow, you are using a GUI? Just kidding

You can actually do a lot in linux using just a terminal, you have several virtual terminals of course and you can use "screen" or other utilities to open up as many others as needed. I think there is even some that will give multiple terminals in one display using curses!

When I was at MIT we had a die-hard Unix type that wouldn't use a GUI at all and he was highly productive (in a computer science department) and one of the top students. And he didn't avoid using a browser either, he used Lynx for browsing the web.

A recurring problem, particularly with network interface configuration, is the inability to get it working right with anything other than a plain DHCP setup on plain wired hardware. The configuration files have to be adjusted manually and then the regular configuration dialog gets confused with no way of telling who is at fault. There are may reports on the web from others who've had the same problems as me.

Still, Linux is far superior to Microsoft Hell. And Apple's walled garden approach becomes less attractive every day. This is why I contribute close to 10 GB of Linux distribution torrent upload daily.

[Marek Soszynski]

While we're discussing OSs, we mustn't overlook Jim Ablett's Linux Chess Distro: http://jimablett.net63.net/chess_755/chess-distros.html

[sje]

One of the cool things about Debian is its support for older hardware. It's interesting that Debian will run on Apple's PowerPC boxes, none of which have been made in the past seven years and some of which date back sixteen years.

Apple themselves regularly mark as "obsolete" (i.e., unsupported) any hardware that's more than five years old. In some cases, the latest software updates won't run on machines less than three years old.