Texel 1.05

[Sedat Canbaz]

Hi Sedat,

Little correction:
Houdini 1.0 based on Robbodini to 99% after all messages I am reading from other programmers (Thinker, Critter programmers, others). Enough proofs are public at this time and later ...

Code from Igorit are cleaning by Robbodini programmer Norman Schmidt. Norman added some own ideas at this time.

Houdini 1.0 is a clone from Robbodini!

Unclear is in my opinion from which one are the further Houdini improvements, maybe from Robert, maybe not.

The history of computer chess in questions of clones is allways the same. People using a work by others, do it with others sources too and in the most cases no own ideas added! Unclear in case of Houdini but after all what the Critter programmer wrote in Rybka forum and here I can't build an other opinion.

In my opinion you are right with Critter 1.6a. Most improvments from Critter 1.6a based on Houdini 1.5. Latest interesting Critter Version is in my opinion version 0.90!

Sorry, but I can't build an other opinion about it after all Information (a lot comes by mail from programmers which explain a bit).

Best
Frank

Please let us not start a clone discuss in the nice Texel thread. We can discuss by mail if you like or in the Orgin selection.

Hello Frank,

We talked a lot about these origins issues in 2014, right ?)


Ok...just my 2 cents more over this issue,
Critter, Bouquet, Blackmamba, Vitruvius, Houdini, Robbodini, Robbolito, Equinox, Naum, Ivanhoe, Strelka, the older versions of Gull/Fire etc ...
are based mainly on Ippollit !! and now is coming another classic question: Ippolit is original or not ???


In my eyes,
Ippolit is clone of Rybka 3

And now,
For me is very important the strength and of course the stability too,

Plus I've noticed in my previous and recent testings,
(in case of comparing all IPPOs)
Only the author of Houdini managed to make much stronger than Rybka (approx. 150 - 200 Elo)
I have to say for Robert Houdart's engine: Houdini and the others !)
Note also that so far I did not noticed by Houdini 4 to forfeits on time
Soon I will publish which original engines are buggy...in case of time forfeits
And very sad that in your eyes: Rybka, Houdini are clones
Another strange thing is that, in your opinion: IPPOLIT is original, sorry here I have different view than you

But however,
I like your way/the fight against cloning...!!
You and Me (plus a few chess friends more) are one of the people,
Who prefer testing one of the most original chess engines, thanks for that, for the support...


Best,
Sedat

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Sedat,

so we have the same opinion in most of cases


Yes, think so ... Igorit could based on decompiled Rybka. Rybka used ideas, comes by Fruit.

But in my opinion we have to see the work Norman gave the Igorit code with own ideas. Could be see what Norman do with Fire today ... other style as the older Fire versions, really again a famous work he do and in my opinion a very good programmer.

Naum is unclear in my opinion. No proofs ... same style Rybka have but compare Rybka with Naum ... to many differents in my opinion. Same playing style could be a bit random, I don't know. I am looking a lot in the style of the last Naum 4.6. All is OK with Naum, should be tested in my list too.

Interesting what you wrote, like that!

Computer Chess in 2014 and 2015 is on a good way!!
All is OK and our programmers do really a good work for all of us.

But the best news at the Moment ...
Dan and Jim are back ... newer version of Cheng, newer version of Texel. So many good news for the start of the year 2015. Some new and strong developments are on the way.

Rybka is history, other engines are the future of computer chess.

Best
Frank

[Jouni]

Here Texel is better than Komodo and SF :

[d]2k5/3P4/8/8/8/8/1r5p/R3K3 b Q - 0 1

Analysis by Komodo 8 64-bit:

1...Kxd7??
-+ (-250.00) Depth: 31 00:00:00 343kN, tb=53961

Analysis by Stockfish 030115 64:

1...Kxd7??
-+ (-123.52) Depth: 42/3 00:00:01 1459kN, tb=57454

Analysis by Texel 1.05 64-bit:

1...Kd8!! 2.0-0-0 Rg2 3.Re1 Rg1 4.Kc2 Rxe1 5.Kc3 h1Q 6.Kd2 Kxd7 7.Kd3 Qf3+ 8.Kd4 Re4+ 9.Kc5 Qc3+ 10.Kb5 Rb4+
-+ (-#25) Depth: 12 00:00:01 1526kN, tb=72186

[Sedat Canbaz]

Hello Frank,

Yes...in most cases we have same view )!

Ok...if we will follow your way of thinking,
I mean, if Rybka will be counted as clone of Fruit

Then, all rest top engines (Stockfish, Komodo, Senpai, Protector etc) should be counted as Rybka clones

Because,
All of these top authors took many ideas from IPPOLIT (Rybka)

Just saying...


Best,
Sedat

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Sedat,

that is right but you have to see each time the own ideas from our programmers. I am sure Vas added some own ideas in Rybka, maybe the Houdini programmer too.

With Fruit new ideas find the way in so many other engines. That is OK, but I await that the programmers gave us this information in the readme files. That is all.

Before Fruit others gave important ideas ...
But to copy to 99% an engine and to say all is my own engine isn't right (Houdini programmer do).

That the reason that so many others lost interest. What we have today is the work by a lot of persons, but each good programmer should be able to added own ideas. That is the different!

We are discuss in a thread with a perfect example ... TEXEL!
Often I am thinking on the Yace programmer, very sympathical programmer ... means often I am thinking Peter and Dieter could be brothers. Both have so many interesting ideas ...

Best
Frank

[Sedat Canbaz]

Hello Frank,

Of course,
Each programmer should be able to add own ideas as well
Oh yes, Yace ls belonging to one of the most original engines

BTW,
I have a simple question (if Rybka and Houdini are clones)
1) Then why Rybka is approx. 400-500 Elo stronger than Fruit
2) And why Houidini is approx. 150-200 Elo stronger than IPOOLIT ?
3) Plus why Rybka 4.1 and Houdini 4 never forfeit on time at 3 Min/Game ?
4) Why many of the rest original and clone engines forfeits on time ?


Continuing...

Ok...I see that you like checking the ReadMe files, good...
But I highly doubt that you find detailed honest information from all programmers
For example, ask please the top programmers (in your next interviews):
- Did you take/copy ideas from Ipppolit or not ?
And then really I wonder...how many will tell us the true ))
Actually is not required interviews...you can check now their readme files
And tell us later...what they wrote in the readme files... )?

For now its Ok..and I will preffer to relay on Don's Sim tool results )
As afar as possible, I will prefer testing those engines, which are below than 55% similarity
Exception for Houdini, because is more than 100 Elo stronger...
Plus also the Elo calculation programs are another very good detectors too, which will help me... ))
Also the Programers views and CCRL's ponder hits are very important data too


Thats all

Best,
Sedat

[Xann]

Hello Frank,
...

Can you two hijack another thread (preferably your own)?

Thanks for Peter,

Fabien.

[Marek Soszynski]

The linux executable require a fairly recent 64-bit linux distribution to run. To compile your own linux version, see the readme.txt file.

Thank you for your engine.

I run Linux on my 64-bit PC (SSE3 not SSE4.2).

texel64old.exe runs okay via Wine.

My own Linux compile - simply "make" - runs much faster than texel64old.exe but on the other hand it doesn't report/access tablebases.

You provide several other executables. Couldn't you do a texel64old as well?

[velmarin]

Hello Frank,
...

Can you two hijack another thread (preferably your own)?

Thanks for Peter,

Fabien.

Thanks for trying to sanity.
And thank Peter and Texel a beautiful and instructive work.

[IWB]

...I hope to see Texel in top 10 someday as we badly need something fresh in those waters.

It seems there is a good chance that this wish will be granted sooner than later!!!

Bye
Ingo