This Wing Gambit is so Strong that Not even Stackfish ...............

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Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: This Wing Gambit is so Strong that Not even Stackfish ...............

Post by Chessqueen »

Uri Blass wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:38 am
Chessqueen wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:55 am
Graham Banks wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:50 am White should really be looking at openings that have a reasonable win percentage.
But if you as a human are playing a player that is known to know how to play the Sicilian Defense very well, you should be considering an alternative to take him out of preparation :roll:
The problem is that the opponent does not have to accept the gambit.

After 1.e4 c5 2.b4 black can play also d5 or e5 with probably a draw with correct play.
Yes but according to stockfish it is still playable with no advantage to Black, and the main reason for human to select this Sicilian Wing Gambit is to take your opponent who usually knows most Sicilian variations by heart out of preparation, and when your opponent does not knows those wing lines as well as you do you have the advantage over him :roll:

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.01.07"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish-windows-2022-x86-64-avx2"]
[Black "Stockfish-windows-2022-x86-64-avx2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3535"]
[ECO "B20"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[Time "01:04:15"]
[Variation "Wing Gambit, 1.e4 c5 2.b4"]
[WhiteElo "3535"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "22"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]


1. e4 c5 2. b4 e5 3. b5 {(b4-b5) +0.03/37 42} Nf6 4. Nc3 Be7 {(Bf8-e7
Bc1-b2 d7-d5 e4xd5 Nf6xd5 Nc3xd5 Qd8xd5 a2-a4 Qd5-e4+ Qd1-e2 Qe4xc2 Bb2xe5
O-O Be5xg7 Rf8-e8 Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3
d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+
Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-a1) 0.00/47 116} 5. Bb2
{(Bc1-b2 d7-d5 Nc3xd5 Nf6xd5 e4xd5 Qd8xd5 a2-a4 Qd5-e4+ Qd1-e2 Qe4xc2
Bb2xe5 O-O Be5xg7 Rf8-e8 Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3
Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1
Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-a1) 0.00/46 19} d5
{(d7-d5 Nc3xd5 Nf6xd5 e4xd5 Qd8xd5 a2-a4 Qd5-e4+ Qd1-e2 Qe4xc2 Bb2xe5 O-O
Be5xg7 Rf8-e8 Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3
d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+
Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/49 22} 6. exd5 {(e4xd5
Nf6xd5 Nc3xd5 Qd8xd5 a2-a4 Qd5-e4+ Qd1-e2 Qe4xc2 Bb2xe5 O-O Be5xg7 Rf8-e8
Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O
a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4
Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/48 24} Nxd5 {(Nf6xd5) -0.03/38 26} 7. Nxd5
{(Nc3xd5 Qd8xd5 a2-a4 Qd5-e4+ Qd1-e2 Qe4xc2 Bb2xe5 O-O Be5xg7 Rf8-e8 Bg7-c3
Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5
Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4
Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/45 37} Qxd5 {(Qd8xd5 a2-a4 Qd5-e4+ Qd1-e2
Qe4xc2 Bb2xe5 O-O Be5xg7 Rf8-e8 Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3
Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2
Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/48 32} 8. a4
{(a2-a4 Qd5-e4+ Qd1-e2 Qe4xc2 Bb2xe5 O-O Be5xg7 Rf8-e8 Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3
Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5
a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+
Kd2-c2) 0.00/49 32} Qe4+ {(Qd5-e4+ Qd1-e2 Qe4xc2 Bb2xe5 O-O Be5xg7 Rf8-e8
Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O
a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4
Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/49 21} 9. Qe2 {(Qd1-e2 Qe4xc2 Bb2xe5 O-O Be5xg7
Rf8-e8 Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6
O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8
c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-c1+ Kc2-d2) 0.00/51 28} Qxc2 {(Qe4xc2
Bb2xe5 O-O Be5xg7 Rf8-e8 Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3
Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1
Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/52 18} 10. Bxe5
{(Bb2xe5 O-O Be5xg7 Rf8-e8 Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3
Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2
Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/51 46} O-O
{(O-O Be5xg7 Rf8-e8 Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3
Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1
Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-c1+ Kc2-d2) 0.00/51
41} 11. Bxg7 {(Be5xg7 Rf8-e8 Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3
Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2
Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-c1+ Kc2-d2
Rc1-d1+) 0.00/52 22} Re8 {(Rf8-e8 Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2
Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+
Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/51
20} 12. Bc3 {(Bg7-c3 Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3
d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+
Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/52 26} Bd7 {(Bc8-d7 Qe2-f3
Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5
a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+
Kd2-c2) 0.00/53 30} 13. Qf3 {(Qe2-f3 Be7-f6+ Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3
d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+
Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/54 44} Bf6+ {(Be7-f6+
Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5
Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2)
0.00/57 27} 14. Be2 {(Bf1-e2 Bf6xc3 Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5
Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4
Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-c1+ Kc2-d2 Rc1-d1+) 0.00/56 50} Bxc3 {(Bf6xc3
Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2
Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/58 22} 15.
Qxc3 {(Qf3xc3 Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+
Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-c1+
Kc2-d2 Rc1-b1) 0.00/57 21} Qxc3 {(Qc2xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5
Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2
Ra1-b1 Kd2-c2 Re1-c1+ Kc2-d2) 0.00/59 29} 16. dxc3 {(d2xc3 a7-a6 O-O-O
a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4
Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-a1) 0.00/59 23} a6 {(a7-a6 O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5
Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2
Ra1-b1 Kd2-c2 Re1-c1+ Kc2-d2) 0.00/58 60} 17. O-O-O {(O-O-O a6xb5 Be2xb5
Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2
Ra1-b1 Kd2-c2 Re1-c1+ Kc2-d2) 0.00/58 22} axb5 {(a6xb5 Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5
Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2)
0.00/59 83} 18. Bxb5 {(Be2xb5 Bd7xb5 a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+
Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-b1 Kd2-c2) 0.00/68 55} Bxb5 {(Bd7xb5 a4xb5
Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2)
0.00/80 44} 19. axb5 {(a4xb5 Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8
c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/62 78} Ra1+ {(Ra8-a1+ Kc1-c2 Re8-e1
Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-a1) 0.00/63 108} 20.
Kc2 Re1 {(Re8-e1 Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/56
27} 21. Rd8+ {(Rd1-d8+ Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/58
21} Kg7 {(Kg8-g7 Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/61 17} 22. Rxb8
{(Rd8xb8 c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/62 28} c4 {(c5-c4 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+
Kd2-c2) 0.00/58 9} 23. Kd2 {(Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-c1+ Kc2-d2) 0.00/52
53} Rad1+ {(Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-a1 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+) 0.00/58 53} 24. Kc2
{(Kd2-c2 Rd1-a1 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/54 3} Rc1+ {(Rd1-c1+ Kc2-d2
Rc1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-c1+) 0.00/59 5} 25. Kd2 {(Kc2-d2 Rc1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-c1+
Kc2-d2) 0.00/59 93} Rcd1+ {(Rc1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-b1 b5-b6 Rb1-a1 Kc2-b2
Re1-b1+ Kb2-c2 Rb1-e1) 0.00/59 22} 26. Kc2 {(Kd2-c2 Rd1-b1 Kc2-d2) 0.00/53
2} Rc1+ {(Rd1-c1+ Kc2-d2) 0.00/54 2} 27. Kd2 {(Kc2-d2) 0.00/64 56} Rb1
{(Rc1-b1 Rb8xb7 Rb1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-a1 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+) 0.00/55 7} 28. Rxb7
{(Rb8xb7 Rb1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-a1 Kc2-d2) 0.00/56 4} Rbd1+ {(Rb1-d1+ Kd2-c2
Rd1-a1 Kc2-d2) 0.00/61 20} 29. Kc2 {(Kd2-c2 Rd1-c1+ Kc2-d2 Rc1-d1+) 0.00/58
37} Ra1 {(Rd1-a1 Kc2-d2 Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2) 0.00/59 12} 30. Kd2 {(Kc2-d2
Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-c1+ Kc2-d2) 0.00/49 3} Rad1+ {(Ra1-d1+ Kd2-c2 Rd1-c1+
Kc2-d2) 0.00/48 3} 31. Kc2 {(Kd2-c2 Rd1-c1+ Kc2-d2) 0.00/53 4} Rc1+
{(Rd1-c1+ Kc2-d2) 0.00/58 15} 32. Kd2 {(Kc2-d2 Rc1-d1+) 0.00/62 24} Rcd1+
{(Rc1-d1+) 0.00/68 11 3-fold repetition} *[/pgn]
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: This Wing Gambit is so Strong that Not even Stockfish ...............

Post by Chessqueen »

After watching all these games with different engines playing the Sicilian Wing Gambit, I finally can beat Snowy rated 1996 easy, this is what you get when you watch more them 10 different Sicilian Wing Gambit games played by the top engines and hint from GM Igor youtube video :roll:
Note: You can learn more variations from this GM Igor Here. ==>
[pgn][Event "Sicilian Wing Gambit"]
[Date "2023.01.07"]
[Round "?"]
[White "ChessQueen"]
[Black "Snowy_0_2_x64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1996"]
[ECO "B20"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[Time "10:32:24"]
[Variation "Wing Gambit, 1.e4 c5 2.b4"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "92"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. e4 c5 2. b4 cxb4 3. d4 d5 4. exd5 Qxd5 5. c4 bxc3 6. Nxc3 Qa5 7. Bd2 Nf6
8. Bb5+ Bd7 9. Rb1 Nc6 10. Nf3 O-O-O 11. d5 Nb4 12. Bxd7+ Nxd7 13. Qe2 e6
14. Ng5 Ne5 15. O-O h6 16. Nxe6 fxe6 17. Qxe5 Nd3 18. Qxe6+ Kb8 19. Qe3 Nb4
20. Ne2 Rxd5 21. Qg3+ Bd6 22. Bxb4 Bxg3 23. Bxa5 Bxh2+ 24. Kxh2 Rxa5 25.
Nc3 Rc8 26. Rb3 g5 27. Rd1 h5 28. a3 h4 29. Nb5 Ra6 30. Rd5 Ra5 31. Rd7 b6
32. Nd6 Rf8 33. Re3 Ra4 34. Ree7 g4 35. Ne8 g3+ 36. fxg3 hxg3+ 37. Kg1 Kc8
38. Rc7+ Kb8 39. Rb7+ Ka8 40. Rbd7 Rd4 41. Rxd4 Rxe8 42. Rxe8+ Kb7 43. Rd6
a5 44. Re7+ Ka6 45. Rd5 a4 46. Rc7 b5 {Black resigns} *[/pgn]
CornfedForever
Posts: 650
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:08 am
Full name: Brian D. Smith

Re: This Wing Gambit is so Strong that Not even Stackfish ...............

Post by CornfedForever »

Chessqueen wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:14 am
Yes but according to stockfish it is still playable with no advantage to Black, and the main reason for human to select this Sicilian Wing Gambit is to take your opponent who usually knows most Sicilian variations by heart out of preparation, and when your opponent does not knows those wing lines as well as you do you have the advantage over him :roll:

True that.

I check my database of OTB games I have played over the years where I faced the Wing Gambit:

1.e4 c5, 2 b4 cb, 3.a3 ba3 - last round win against an expert to clinch 1st place in an out of state 1989 tourney.
1.e4 c5, 2 b4 cb, 3.a3 e6 - last round draw against an expert to clinch 1st place in the 1992 Region 8 Action Championship (multi-state only tourney)

1.e4 c5, 2 b4 cb, 3.Bb2 win against a 'A' player in an in state tourney from 1995
1.e4 c5, 2 b4 cb, 3.d4 win against a 'B' player in another state tourney from 1992

I also played it once OTB (as White ) against a long time friend in a tourney from probably about the same time frame with this later line...but only managed a draw...never been a real 'e4 player).

So, I have fond memories of playing against the Wing Gambit....especially those last round wins where, probably my opponents either needed a win to catch me or to get clear first.
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: This Wing Gambit is so Strong that Not even Stackfish ...............

Post by Chessqueen »

CornfedForever wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 6:51 pm
Chessqueen wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:14 am
Yes but according to stockfish it is still playable with no advantage to Black, and the main reason for human to select this Sicilian Wing Gambit is to take your opponent who usually knows most Sicilian variations by heart out of preparation, and when your opponent does not knows those wing lines as well as you do you have the advantage over him :roll:

True that.

I check my database of OTB games I have played over the years where I faced the Wing Gambit:

1.e4 c5, 2 b4 cb, 3.a3 ba3 - last round win against an expert to clinch 1st place in an out of state 1989 tourney.
1.e4 c5, 2 b4 cb, 3.a3 e6 - last round draw against an expert to clinch 1st place in the 1992 Region 8 Action Championship (multi-state only tourney)

1.e4 c5, 2 b4 cb, 3.Bb2 win against a 'A' player in an in state tourney from 1995
1.e4 c5, 2 b4 cb, 3.d4 win against a 'B' player in another state tourney from 1992

I also played it once OTB (as White ) against a long time friend in a tourney from probably about the same time frame with this later line...but only managed a draw...never been a real 'e4 player).

So, I have fond memories of playing against the Wing Gambit....especially those last round wins where, probably my opponents either needed a win to catch me or to get clear first.
Can you post at least one of your games, I would like to learn more about how other players of that particular level or ratings specially how the expert play against you :roll:
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: This Wing Gambit is so Strong that Not even Stockfish ...............

Post by Chessqueen »

CornfedForever wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 6:51 pm
Chessqueen wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:14 am
Yes but according to stockfish it is still playable with no advantage to Black, and the main reason for human to select this Sicilian Wing Gambit is to take your opponent who usually knows most Sicilian variations by heart out of preparation, and when your opponent does not knows those wing lines as well as you do you have the advantage over him :roll:

True that.

I check my database of OTB games I have played over the years where I faced the Wing Gambit:

1.e4 c5, 2 b4 cb, 3.a3 ba3 - last round win against an expert to clinch 1st place in an out of state 1989 tourney.
1.e4 c5, 2 b4 cb, 3.a3 e6 - last round draw against an expert to clinch 1st place in the 1992 Region 8 Action Championship (multi-state only tourney)

1.e4 c5, 2 b4 cb, 3.Bb2 win against a 'A' player in an in state tourney from 1995
1.e4 c5, 2 b4 cb, 3.d4 win against a 'B' player in another state tourney from 1992

I also played it once OTB (as White ) against a long time friend in a tourney from probably about the same time frame with this later line...but only managed a draw...never been a real 'e4 player).

So, I have fond memories of playing against the Wing Gambit....especially those last round wins where, probably my opponents either needed a win to catch me or to get clear first.
After watching all these games with different engines playing the Sicilian Wing Gambit, I finally can beat Monarch at slower time control, this is what you get when you watch more them 10 different Sicilian Wing Gambit games played by the top engines and hint from GM Igor youtube video :roll:
Note: You can learn more variations from this GM Igor here. ==> I am not sure of the rating equivalent to human of Monarch, but it gave me a hell of a hard time to beat it.

[pgn][Event "Sicilian Wing Gambit"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.01.07"]
[Round "2"]
[White "ChessQueen"]
[Black "Monarch(v1.7)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "2030"]
[ECO "B20"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[Time "13:01:27"]
[Variation "Wing Gambit, 1.e4 c5 2.b4"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "3600+10"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "122"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. e4 c5 2. b4 cxb4 3. d4 d5 4. exd5 Qxd5 5. c4 Qa5 6. Bd2 Nc6 7. d5 e6 8.
dxc6 Qe5+ 9. Be2 Qxa1 10. Bf3 Qe5+ 11. Ne2 Qc7 12. Bf4 Qe7 13. c5 e5 14.
Qa4 Kd8 15. O-O Qc7 16. cxb7 Bxb7 17. Bxe5 Qxe5 18. Bxb7 Bxc5 19. Rd1+ Ke7
20. Qd7+ Kf8 21. Bxa8 g6 22. Bd5 Ne7 23. Bf3 Bb6 24. Nd2 Qc7 25. Qxc7 Bxc7
26. Rc1 Bd8 27. Rc4 a5 28. Rc5 Nf5 29. Nc4 a4 30. Be4 Be7 31. Ra5 Nd6 32.
Nxd6 Bxd6 33. Rxa4 Kg7 34. Ra8 Rxa8 35. Bxa8 Be5 36. f4 Bd6 37. g3 Bc5+ 38.
Kf1 Be3 39. Kg2 f5 40. Kf3 Bb6 41. Nc1 Bd4 42. Ke2 h6 43. Kd3 Bc5 44. Ne2
Bd6 45. Kd4 Be7 46. Bc6 Kf6 47. Kd5 Bd8 48. Kc4 Be7 49. Nd4 g5 50. fxg5+
hxg5 51. Nc2 Bd6 52. Nxb4 Bb8 53. Nd5+ Ke6 54. Bb7 f4 55. Bc8+ Ke5 56.
gxf4+ gxf4 57. Ne7 Kd6 58. Ng6 f3 59. Kd3 Ba7 60. h4 f2 61. Bh3 f1=R 62.
Bxf1 Ke6 63. Ke4 Kf7 64. Ne5+ Kg7 65. Bb5 Bf2 66. h5 Bc5 67. Ng4 Kh8 68.
Bd3 Kg8 69. h6 Bb4 70. Kf5 Bd2 71. Kg6 Bxh6 72. Nxh6+ Kf8 73. Nf7 Ke7 74.
Bf5 Kf8 75. a4 Kg8 76. a5 Kf8 {Black resigns} *[/pgn]
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: This Wing Gambit is so Strong that Not even Stockfish ...............

Post by Chessqueen »

When I play any normal Sicilian which I do NOT know all the variations, I usually get into trouble, but this time I managed to get a draw.

[pgn]
[Date "2023.01.07"]
[Round "3"]
[White "ChessQueen"]
[Black "Snowy_0_2_x64"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "1996"]
[ECO "B33"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[Time "19:19:10"]
[Variation "Open, 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "1800+10"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "115"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nxc6 dxc6 6. Qxd8+ Kxd8 7.
Nc3 e5 8. Bg5 Bb4 9. f4 Re8 10. O-O-O+ Bd7 11. fxe5 Rxe5 12. Bxf6+ gxf6 13.
Bd3 Bxc3 14. bxc3 Ke7 15. Rde1 Be6 16. Kb2 b5 17. Ka1 a6 18. Re3 c5 19. Kb2
Re8 20. Rhe1 Kf8 21. Bf1 c4 22. Rc1 f5 23. Rh3 fxe4 24. Rxh7 Kg8 25. Rh4
Bd5 26. Re1 Rf5 27. g4 Rf2 28. Rh5 Bb7 29. a4 e3 30. Rg5+ Kf8 31. Be2 bxa4
32. Bxc4 Rxh2 33. Rh5 Rxh5 34. gxh5 Re5 35. Ka3 Rc5 36. Bd3 Rxc3+ 37. Kxa4
Rc5 38. h6 Bc6+ 39. Kb4 Rh5 40. h7 Bb5 41. c4 Bd7 42. Rxe3 f5 43. Re5 Rxh7
44. Ra5 Bc8 45. Bxf5 Rb7+ 46. Kc3 Bxf5 47. Rxf5+ Kg7 48. Rd5 Rb1 49. c5 Kf6
50. Rd6+ Ke5 51. Rxa6 Kd5 52. Kc2 Rb4 53. Ra7 Kxc5 54. Ra5+ Rb5 55. Ra1 Rb6
56. Rc1 Rc6 57. Kb3+ Kd5 58. Rd1 {User Adjudication} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
CornfedForever
Posts: 650
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:08 am
Full name: Brian D. Smith

Re: This Wing Gambit is so Strong that Not even Stackfish ...............

Post by CornfedForever »

Chessqueen wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:05 pm
Can you post at least one of your games, I would like to learn more about how other players of that particular level or ratings specially how the expert play against you :roll:
I don't think there is anything there to be 'learned'...and besides, I don't know how to post games like you are able to.
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: This Wing Gambit is so Strong that Not even Stackfish ...............

Post by Chessqueen »

CornfedForever wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:29 am
Chessqueen wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:05 pm
Can you post at least one of your games, I would like to learn more about how other players of that particular level or ratings specially how the expert play against you :roll:
I don't think there is anything there to be 'learned'...and besides, I don't know how to post games like you are able to.
Under arena click where it say analyze on the bottom to the right of Movelist, Book T/B and you will see Analyze then you can enter every single moves made by your opponent and yourself, at the end of the game click where it say on the very top Game==? Export to Clipboard ==> As PGN and post it here by adding [pgn] as the first line this will post the diagram here followed by pasting the game.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.01.07"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Brian D. Smith"]
[Black "Your Opponent name"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "04:48:57"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "10800+10"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "6"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. e4 c5 2. b4 cxb4 {(c5xb4) +0.36/24 2} 3. d4 d5 {(d7-d5 e4xd5 Ng8-f6
a2-a3 Nf6xd5 Ng1-f3 e7-e6 Bf1-e2 a7-a5 O-O h7-h6 a3xb4 Bf8xb4 c2-c4 Nd5-f6
Nf3-e1 O-O Ne1-c2 Bb4-d6 Nb1-c3 Bc8-d7 h2-h3 Bd7-c6 Bc1-b2 Nb8-a6 Nc2-e3
Na6-b4 d4-d5 e6xd5 c4xd5 Bc6-d7 Ne3-c4 Bd6-b8 d5-d6) +0.82/35 40} *[/pgn][/pgn]