What is the true value of the Queen 8.5 or 9 ?

[Chessqueen]

If you start from the initial position it seems that the queen is stronger than 2 rooks
I used only single core for both engines but I doubt if more cores or longer time control is going to help considering the evaluation.

[pgn][Event "*"]
[Site "*"]
[Date "2023.01.20"]
[Time "14:04:22"]
[Round "*"]
[White "Stockfish dev-20230114-3d2381d7"]
[Black "Stockfish dev-20230114-3d2381d7"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Termination "mate"]
[TimeControl "60+1"]
[PlyCount "163"]
[FEN "rnb1kbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBN1 w kq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1.Nc3 {+2.1/22 6047 2573787} e6 {+1.9/25 3925 2914197} 2.Nb5 {+1.9/27 5939 4562271} Na6 {+1.8/26 3143 2445906}
3.e4 {+1.8/27 2246 1763979} d5 {+1.9/26 1465 1136189} 4.Nc3 {+2.0/24 1581 1210972} Nf6 {+1.9/27 3478 2747058}
5.e5 {+2.1/24 1841 1442487} Nd7 {+1.9/26 1303 990553} 6.d4 {+2.1/25 1951 1536155} Nb6 {+1.9/25 1873 1474260}
7.b3 {+2.2/24 5519 4358243} Bd7 {+2.1/26 5744 4443384} 8.Bxa6 {+2.4/23 1852 1400821} bxa6 {+2.2/24 3921 3159188}
9.Qg4 {+2.3/21 1886 1510668} Nc8 {+2.4/27 15845 11925672} 10.Nh3 {+2.4/25 3772 2925155} Ne7 {+2.3/22 1143 829134}
11.Ba3 {+2.5/21 1332 1022914} a5 {+2.5/29 13142 10174552} 12.Nf4 {+2.4/24 3831 3028963} Nf5 {+2.6/25 4282 3333107}
13.Bxf8 {+2.5/23 1797 1380612} Rxf8 {+2.5/23 966 724420} 14.Nd3 {+2.5/23 1891 1481312} h5 {+2.6/27 2195 1685119}
15.Qf4 {+2.6/26 1789 1404560} a4 {+2.6/23 1606 1222692} 16.Nc5 {+2.5/31 5171 4019255} axb3 {+2.5/24 1626 1272773}
17.cxb3 {+2.6/25 1681 1287563} Rh8 {+2.4/20 1238 935924} 18.a4 {+2.6/26 1685 1298785} Rb8 {+2.5/26 6372 5048355}
19.Nxd5 {+2.6/26 5541 4528871} exd5 {+2.4/21 741 600986} 20.Nxd7 {+2.7/23 1282 1019230} Kxd7 {+2.5/23 1564 1308949}
21.Qxf5+ {+2.6/24 2750 2317920} Ke8 {+2.6/20 543 410332} 22.e6 {+2.6/25 2198 1908784} fxe6 {+2.6/21 787 643235}
23.Qxe6+ {+2.9/22 1598 1377775} Kd8 {+2.4/21 829 686427} 24.Kd2 {+2.8/24 1653 1429134} h4 {+2.6/23 2517 2137665}
25.Kc3 {+3.0/23 1512 1313126} h3 {+2.6/21 824 680612} 26.Qxd5+ {+2.9/21 1651 1408204} Kc8 {+2.6/21 448 346540}
27.Qf5+ {+3.1/20 1294 1114084} Kb7 {+2.7/20 689 552712} 28.Qd5+ {+3.0/25 6361 5557046} Kc8 {+2.7/20 566 430316}
29.Qf5+ {+3.1/20 950 754190} Kb7 {+2.7/18 639 507047} 30.Qe4+ {+3.0/24 1772 1511794} Kb6 {+3.0/22 4440 3773587}
31.g4 {+3.3/25 5604 5063817} a6 {+3.1/18 521 409030} 32.a5+ {+3.3/16 512 399667} Ka7 {+2.9/18 242 182129}
33.Qc6 {+3.2/20 691 580741} Rbc8 {+3.4/21 1721 1536616} 34.f4 {+3.4/18 823 744759} Rhd8 {+3.2/20 461 348912}
35.f5 {+3.3/20 1320 1163652} Rd6 {+3.1/20 664 564955} 36.Qc5+ {+3.5/19 841 708850} Kb7 {+3.4/25 2797 2529508}
37.Qe5 {+3.4/21 1062 953464} Rd7 {+3.5/19 1360 1242922} 38.b4 {+3.5/21 713 573811} Rf8 {+3.5/20 601 465231}
39.Qe4+ {+3.6/18 843 720455} c6 {+3.5/18 194 146990} 40.Qe5 {+3.7/20 815 683709} Rb8 {+3.7/22 2034 1838551}
41.Qc5 {+3.8/19 885 749378} Kc7 {+3.8/19 419 360011} 42.Qa7+ {+4.0/23 851 755873} Rb7 {+4.0/21 539 461263}
43.Qxa6 {+4.3/25 1757 1712729} Rb5 {+4.0/17 701 660121} 44.Qa7+ {+4.3/19 1004 973808} Rb7 {+4.3/20 988 934383}
45.Qc5 {+4.4/21 1332 1314107} Rb5 {+4.3/17 430 405028} 46.Qc4 {+4.5/23 2195 2263853} Re7 {+4.2/17 730 688088}
47.Qd3 {+4.5/19 872 854811} Rd5 {+4.5/21 2957 2963790} 48.Qxh3 {+4.7/18 938 955711} Rd8 {+4.3/17 652 588154}
49.Qg3+ {+4.8/18 1615 1581671} Kb7 {+4.4/14 226 193421} 50.g5 {+4.9/16 459 426893} Re4 {+4.8/19 2289 2210383}
51.a6+ {+4.9/18 852 766452} Kb6 {+5.3/16 698 632653} 52.a7 {+5.3/19 829 762543} Kb7 {+5.3/16 764 746826}
53.f6 {+5.6/23 750 700183} gxf6 {+5.0/15 257 204387} 54.gxf6 {+5.7/21 1075 1054500} Ree8 {+5.5/19 1265 1193167}
55.Qg7+ {+6.0/22 815 779950} Kb6 {+5.8/20 2070 2103816} 56.f7 {+6.0/20 1324 1303509} Rh8 {+5.8/20 182 158648}
57.Qe5 {+6.3/20 929 806908} Kxa7 {+6.4/19 1866 1851542} 58.Qc7+ {+6.9/16 888 828420} Ka8 {+6.9/17 745 682496}
59.Qxc6+ {+7.0/13 674 631743} Kb8 {+7.2/17 1376 1384762} 60.Qe6 {+7.1/15 848 821350} Rc8+ {+7.6/15 1075 1097872}
61.Kb3 {+7.7/16 844 764598} Ka7 {+7.9/15 863 885386} 62.d5 {+8.5/19 1277 1305753} Rb8 {+8.2/18 1124 1199869}
63.Qe7+ {+9.2/17 1177 1218740} Kb6 {+8.3/13 198 191784} 64.h4 {+9.4/15 788 805205} Rbf8 {+9.8/17 1666 1759195}
65.d6 {+12.3/19 2163 2513393} Kc6 {+7.9/13 215 193622} 66.d7 {+13.3/17 479 590855} Rd8 {+13.9/19 1761 2237467}
67.Kc4 {+17.9/20 962 1259978} Kc7 {+17.8/18 1150 1563929} 68.b5 {+19.9/20 1028 1680283} Rxd7 {+17.9/22 587 737129}
69.Qc5+ {+23.8/21 839 1390262} Kb8 {+24.4/22 1163 1989228} 70.f8=Q+ {+88.0/23 845 1334262} Rxf8 {+24.6/28 769 1336846}
71.Qxf8+ {M+38/28 856 1304986} Kb7 {+88.0/28 1123 2161545} 72.h5 {M+33/27 1059 1482404} Rd2 {M-46/23 1313 2005782}
73.Qf3+ {M+21/26 899 1326680} Kc8 {M-20/26 403 732833} 74.Qf5+ {M+12/28 880 1564934} Kb7 {M-14/24 404 642236}
75.h6 {M+9/31 940 1523976} Rd8 {M-9/28 406 667748} 76.h7 {M+8/37 901 1402909} Kc7 {M-7/30 527 713887}
77.Kc5 {M+6/52 983 1418259} Kb8 {M-5/81 493 707196} 78.Qf6 {M+5/88 734 1006766} Rc8+ {M-4/245 439 1198465}
79.Kb6 {M+4/245 520 1719622} Rc1 {M-3/245 70 294865} 80.h8=Q+ {M+3/245 55 234186} Rc8 {M-2/245 37 9356}
81.Qh2+ {M+2/245 39 9986} Ka8 {M-1/245 41 1037} 82.Qa1# {M+1/245 35 11286} 1-0

[/pgn]

Only if the Queen has the first move, remember the first move is a great advantage when both side are equally strong, but if you try any program less than 2650 playing White against either Dragon 3.2 or latest Stockfish playing with the Black side it will NOT win. and I doubt that any human player rated below 2650 can beat Stockfish or Dragon 3.2 with White at Blitz 5 minutes games

[Uri Blass]

The queen won again and now I used 7 cores per engine and the queen was not the first side to move.
[pgn][Event "*"]
[Site "*"]
[Date "2023.01.20"]
[Time "14:14:27"]
[Round "*"]
[White "Stockfish dev-20230114-3d2381d7"]
[Black "Stockfish dev-20230114-3d2381d7"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Termination "mate"]
[TimeControl "60+1"]
[PlyCount "160"]
[FEN "1nbqkbn1/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQ - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1.Nf3 {-1.1/30 10137 74910319} d5 {-1.3/30 8982 61435864} 2.d4 {-1.1/25 2735 17961222} Nc6 {-1.4/24 1732 12209215}
3.a3 {-1.3/30 9456 61605055} Qd6 {-1.4/24 1447 9826583} 4.e3 {-1.3/30 3811 25510555} e5 {-1.3/31 2768 18781074}
5.Nc3 {-1.3/26 1116 7668285} e4 {-1.3/25 1968 12951282} 6.Nd2 {-1.2/27 2257 15342055} Qd8 {-1.4/27 5148 34285326}
7.Nb3 {-1.2/30 6549 43831375} Nce7 {-1.4/28 3984 28258093} 8.Bd2 {-1.2/27 1075 7927846} h5 {-1.4/26 1204 8388533}
9.O-O-O {-1.2/29 2203 15964591} Nf6 {-1.4/28 3086 21981426} 10.Be2 {-1.1/25 1913 13625394} Nf5 {-1.4/28 4092 28751610}
11.f3 {-1.1/25 1322 9141279} b6 {-1.3/29 5676 39290648} 12.Rdg1 {-1.2/26 1959 13294254} g6 {-1.3/27 1492 10527760}
13.g4 {-1.1/27 1555 10422099} hxg4 {-1.2/28 2400 16352861} 14.fxg4 {-1.1/28 1598 10752340} Nh4 {-1.2/25 1419 9759061}
15.g5 {-1.1/34 3227 22643334} Nh5 {-1.2/26 1659 11449194} 16.Be1 {-1.1/27 1939 13475463} Nf5 {-1.3/26 1436 9841472}
17.Bf2 {-1.1/24 1603 11155332} c6 {-1.2/29 2920 20627570} 18.Kb1 {-1.0/27 1397 9627946} Be7 {-1.3/25 1458 10171615}
19.Rg2 {-1.1/28 6490 43310638} Bd6 {-1.2/29 8265 55922946} 20.Nd2 {-1.1/24 1283 8430128} Kf8 {-1.2/29 4996 33855291}
21.Nf1 {-1.0/24 1392 9162528} a5 {-1.2/30 4896 32808097} 22.a4 {-1.0/25 1586 10325491} Be6 {-1.3/25 2632 17663184}
23.h4 {-1.0/22 2587 17449191} Qd7 {-1.3/21 929 6240661} 24.Bg4 {-1.2/28 11020 73934966} Bb4 {-1.4/29 6702 45675418}
25.Bxh5 {-1.3/23 1575 10613706} gxh5 {-1.4/19 276 1733423} 26.Ne2 {-1.3/22 288 1714984} Bd6 {-1.5/22 541 3337941}
27.Rhg1 {-1.5/25 3112 21030808} c5 {-1.4/22 526 3368970} 28.Nc3 {-1.4/19 360 2261965} Bc7 {-1.4/25 1192 8125315}
29.g6 {-1.3/22 1417 9426205} fxg6 {-1.3/27 3310 22755626} 30.Rxg6 {-1.3/20 302 1918231} Bf7 {-1.3/21 823 5528334}
31.R6g2 {-1.1/20 572 3610615} cxd4 {-1.3/19 230 1298393} 32.exd4 {-1.2/18 369 2145243} Bf4 {-1.4/19 329 1923159}
33.Rh1 {-1.3/19 500 3114362} Qe7 {-1.4/20 542 3251558} 34.Rh3 {-1.1/18 523 3185639} Qf6 {-1.4/20 544 3145402}
35.Ne2 {-1.1/22 1474 9172823} Bh6 {-1.6/18 586 3647558} 36.Rg1 {-1.5/23 3407 22379672} Be6 {-1.8/19 644 4016665}
37.Rc3 {-1.4/23 1481 9615345} Ke8 {-1.7/21 1223 8024144} 38.Ka2 {-1.6/21 419 2484939} Ne7 {-1.9/20 603 3619348}
39.Be3 {-1.6/20 307 1870503} Bg4 {-2.1/20 721 4604147} 40.Nc1 {-1.6/20 332 2118152} Bxe3 {-2.3/22 849 5818773}
41.Nxe3 {-1.8/27 1070 7200307} Qxd4 {-2.3/20 852 5962837} 42.Kb1 {-2.4/25 2593 17516022} Be6 {-2.5/20 770 5094652}
43.Rb3 {-2.4/19 688 4348981} b5 {-2.6/23 1160 7508315} 44.axb5 {-2.4/21 785 4904431} Qb6 {-2.7/20 765 4899626}
45.Ra3 {-2.4/19 491 2868788} d4 {-2.6/22 877 5549784} 46.Nd1 {-2.6/26 1402 9429074} Bf5 {-2.7/23 817 5351331}
47.Re1 {-2.6/19 598 3630484} Qxb5 {-2.8/24 1243 8265212} 48.Nf2 {-2.5/20 668 4310581} Qd5 {-2.9/18 779 5046372}
49.Rb3 {-2.5/24 1629 10975924} Kf8 {-3.0/19 1113 7430020} 50.Rg3 {-2.9/21 1905 12782890} a4 {-3.2/19 950 5967565}
51.Rf1 {-3.1/20 1182 7621008} Ke8 {-3.2/20 990 6412581} 52.Re1 {-3.2/20 798 5007347} e3 {-3.5/19 867 5502950}
53.Nfd3 {-3.1/20 583 3529859} Bg4 {-3.4/22 1095 6999131} 54.Reg1 {-3.3/20 1131 7450516} Qe4 {-3.5/23 939 6175466}
55.Rf1 {-3.2/22 661 4053454} Nd5 {-3.7/21 1095 6999246} 56.Rgg1 {-3.5/20 1695 11064293} a3 {-3.8/20 1014 6552667}
57.Nc5 {-3.7/17 1139 7310477} Qe7 {-4.3/19 1402 9196861} 58.N1d3 {-4.1/18 891 5411779} e2 {-4.4/18 884 5634886}
59.Rc1 {-4.2/17 1115 6981324} Ne3 {-4.5/20 1339 8573659} 60.Rge1 {-4.2/19 1005 6364355} Qxh4 {-4.7/22 1615 10415049}
61.Ka2 {-4.2/17 1018 6213755} Qe7 {-4.9/18 769 4497480} 62.b3 {-4.7/16 1002 5929270} h4 {-5.0/17 742 4481821}
63.Rh1 {-4.7/15 380 2103078} h3 {-5.4/18 1124 7718676} 64.Kxa3 {-5.3/17 1496 10320945} Qa7+ {-5.7/18 954 6145162}
65.Na4 {-5.4/17 410 2524209} Qc7 {-5.7/19 1009 7248609} 66.Ka2 {-5.5/19 1572 11100445} Nd1 {-6.0/18 973 7058690}
67.Re1 {-5.8/18 1114 8336101} Kf7 {-6.2/19 822 5490742} 68.b4 {-6.0/18 1021 6834316} h2 {-7.1/20 2062 15791862}
69.Nac5 {-6.2/15 506 3443031} Qg3 {-7.5/17 543 3750054} 70.Rh1 {-7.0/18 1398 10871261} Bf3 {-8.0/19 999 8179551}
71.Rxh2 {-7.4/16 1013 8049915} Bd5+ {-8.4/16 760 6483487} 72.Ka3 {-8.1/17 1074 8857664} e1=Q {-11.3/15 1136 11576567}
73.c4 {-11.1/15 1009 9914995} Be4 {-19.6/16 887 8475831} 74.Rb2 {-17.7/15 1002 9680797} Bxd3 {M+9/60 670 5293540}
75.Ka2 {M-8/34 867 6892184} Nc3+ {M+6/66 698 5053333} 76.Kb3 {M-5/57 125 1357838} Qxc1 {M+5/90 719 6836974}
77.b5 {M-4/101 328 6425205} Bc2+ {M+4/163 911 22365792} 78.Rxc2 {M-3/245 156 5814397} Nb1+ {M+3/245 135 5087890}
79.Rc3 {M-2/245 33 90465} Qgxc3+ {M+2/245 28 86563} 80.Ka2 {M-1/245 29 5273} Q3a3# {M+1/245 27 65221}
0-1
[/pgn]

[Chessqueen]

Probably is the Value of the Rooks that are too high, they should be around 4.8 to 4.9, here is a test position for you to test, play as it is or with both sides using Stockfish

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.01.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon-2.6.1-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "Stockfish dev-20230114-3d2381d7"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "3550"]
[Time "09:34:52"]
[WhiteElo "3490"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r3k2r/pppppppp/8/8/2P5/8/PP1PPPPP/1NB1K1N1 b kq - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "1"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. ... a6 {(a7-a6 Nb1-c3) -0.54/25 2} *[/pgn]

[Chessqueen]

I truly believe that the pieces with the wrong value of 5.0 are the Rooks, they should have a value between 4.8 to 4.9. Next game will be the 2 Rooks having to play the first move

[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.01.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon-2.6.1-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "Stockfish_23011407_x64_bmi2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3525"]
[Time "09:43:16"]
[WhiteElo "3550"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r3k2r/pppppppp/8/8/2P5/8/PP1PPPPP/1NB1K1N1 b kq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "258"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. ... a6 2. Nc3 f6 3. e4 Rb8 4. d3 b5 5. c5 d6 6. Be3 Kd7 7. Nge2 e5 8. b4
dxc5 9. Bxc5 Ra8 10. a3 a5 11. Kd2 axb4 12. axb4 c6 13. h4 Rhd8 14. Bb6 Rg8
15. Be3 Ra3 16. Kc2 Ra1 17. Nc1 h5 18. N3e2 g5 19. hxg5 fxg5 20. Ng3 Rh8
21. Nf5 g4 22. g3 Ke6 23. Nb3 Ra2+ 24. Kb1 Rha8 25. Nc1 R2a4 26. Bc5 Ra1+
27. Kc2 R1a6 28. Nd6 Rg8 29. Nf5 Rga8 30. Kd2 Ra3 31. Ne3 Rh8 32. Ng2 Re8
33. Kc2 Rd8 34. Ne3 Rh8 35. Nf5 Rha8 36. Ne7 Kf6 37. Kd2 R3a4 38. Nf5 Ke6
39. Ne3 Rh8 40. Ng2 Rd8 41. Nh4 Ra3 42. Kc2 Ra6 43. Kb1 Rd7 44. Kb2 Ra8 45.
Ng2 Ra4 46. Kc2 Ra8 47. Be3 Ra4 48. Bc5 Ra8 49. Nh4 Ra6 50. Be3 Ra3 51. Nb3
Kf7 52. Kb2 Ra8 53. Nc1 Ra4 54. Bc5 Rd8 55. Nf5 Rda8 56. Ne3 Rh8 57. Nb3
Rd8 58. Kc3 Ra3 59. Ng2 Ra2 60. Nc1 Ra3+ 61. Kb2 Ra4 62. Ne1 Rh8 63. Nb3 h4
64. gxh4 Rxh4 65. Na5 Rh6 66. Nc2 Rf6 67. Be3 Ke8 68. Kb3 Kf7 69. Kc3 Ke8
70. Nb3 Rf3 71. Bb6 Rh3 72. Bc5 Kf7 73. Be3 g3 74. fxg3 Rxg3 75. Na5 Ke6
76. Nxc6 Ra2 77. Kb3 Rxc2 78. Kxc2 Rxe3 79. Na7 Re2+ 80. Kb3 Rd2 81. Kc3
Ra2 82. Nxb5 Kd7 83. Kb3 Rd2 84. Kc4 Rc2+ 85. Kd5 Rd2 86. Kc4 Rc2+ 87. Kd5
Rd2 88. d4 exd4 89. Nxd4 Rb2 90. Kc5 Rb1 91. b5 Kc7 92. Ne2 Kd7 93. Nc3 Rc1
94. Kd4 Ke6 95. Na4 Rb1 96. Kc4 Ke5 97. Nc5 Rc1+ 98. Kb4 Kd6 99. Nd3 Rh1
100. Kc3 Kc7 101. Kd4 Rh4 102. Nf2 Rh8 103. e5 Kb6 104. e6 Kxb5 105. Ne4
Kc6 106. Ke5 Ra8 107. Kf6 Rh8 108. Ng5 Rh6+ 109. Kg7 Rh1 110. Nf7 Re1 111.
Kf6 Rf1+ 112. Kg7 Rg1+ 113. Kf8 Re1 114. Nd8+ Kd6 115. Kf7 Rf1+ 116. Ke8
Re1 117. Kf7 Rh1 118. Nb7+ Ke5 119. Nc5 Rf1+ 120. Ke7 Rh1 121. Nd7+ Kf5
122. Nf8 Ke5 123. Ke8 Kd6 124. e7 Re1 125. Ng6 Ke6 126. Nf8+ Kf6 127. Nh7+
Ke5 128. Kd7 Kf5 129. e8=Q Rxe8 130. Kxe8 {Insufficient material} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

[Uri]

Nobody knows the true values of the chess pieces. We will only know when chess is solved and this could take another million years from now.

But then again who knows how advanced humans will be in another 1,000,000 from now? By then we could have technologies that we could only dream of now.

[Paloma]

Nobody knows the true values of the chess pieces. We will only know when chess is solved and this could take another million years from now.

But then again who knows how advanced humans will be in another 1,000,000 from now? By then we could have technologies that we could only dream of now.

lol
In a million years there will be no more humans, not even in 10,000 years.
Even in 1,000 years or shorter, life will no longer be worth living.

[Uri]

In a million years there will be no more humans, not even in 10,000 years.
Even in 1,000 years or shorter, life will no longer be worth living.

I think this is nore proof that there is no loving God or anything and that human life isn't really precious or valuable.

I'd always dreamed that in a milion years humans will stop being so primitive and destructive to each other and that we'd actually overcome our selfish nature and actually become a technologically advanced civilization but if that's not going to happen then this really means that everything in this world is just surivval of the fittest down to it's very core and that humans will always live in a sad, cruel, primitive and cut-throat existence.

It makes me so sad and depressed to think that humans will forever be confined to a primitive and depressive world. It's like we are all prisoners, forever chained to this primitive and sad world.

[hgm]

Nobody knows the true values of the chess pieces. We will only know when chess is solved ...

Not at all. When Chess would be solved piece values will be meaningless and irrelevant, as play would be governed purely by distance to mate. Piece values only have meaning in the context of a heuristic evaluation, which makes a wild guess at the winning probability based on WDL statistics of 'similar' positions.

[Chessqueen]

[quote=Chessqueen post_id=941799 time=1674127956 user_id=10732]
[quote=Chessqueen post_id=941794 time=1674120917 user_id=10732]


This is the 4th win for the 3 minors pieces. the 2Rooks have zero win so far
Or maybe 2 knights+Bishop=2*3.4+3.5=10.3 points. Yes, but which programmer has assigned those values to their engines It is hard even for the almighty Queen to win against 3 minors pieces
[pgn][Event "True value of the Queen"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.01.21"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish_23011407_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "Stockfish_23011407_x64_bmi2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3520"]
[Time "03:30:36"]
[WhiteElo "3520"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3qk3/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1N2KBN1 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "0"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]


1. c4 c6 2. Nc3 d5 3. e3 e5 4. cxd5 cxd5 5. Nf3 d4 6. exd4 exd4 7. Ne2 d3
8. Nc3 h5 9. Kd1 Qb6 10. Bxd3 Qxf2 11. Ne1 g5 12. h3 f5 13. b3 Kf8 14. Bc4
g4 15. hxg4 fxg4 16. Ne2 Qf5 17. g3 b5 18. Bd3 Qe5 19. Nc2 Qd5 20. Ne1 Qc6
21. Nc2 Qh1+ 22. Ne1 Qc6 23. Nc2 Qd5 24. Ne1 Ke7 25. Bg6 Qe6 26. Bd3 Qd5
27. Bg6 Kf6 28. Nc3 Qd7 29. Be4 b4 30. Ne2 Qe6 31. Bg2 Qa6 32. Nc1 Qb6 33.
Ne2 Qa5 34. Nc1 Qc5 35. Ne2 Qa5 36. Nc1 Qe5 37. Ne2 Qa1+ 38. Nc1 Qd4 39.
Ne2 Qb2 40. Nc1 Qe5 41. Ne2 Qa1+ 42. Nc1 Qb2 43. Nc2 Qe5 44. Ne2 Qa5 45.
Nc1 Qf5 46. Ne2 Kg7 47. Ne3 Qb1+ 48. Nc1 Qb2 49. Nc2 Qe5 50. Ne2 a5 51. Ne3
Qb2 52. Nc1 Qf6 53. Ne2 Qa1+ 54. Nc1 Kf6 55. Bd5 Qb1 56. Bg2 Qb2 57. Bd5
Qa1 58. Bb7 Qe5 59. Ne2 Qa1+ 60. Nc1 Qd4 61. Ne2 Qe5 62. Bd5 Qa1+ 63. Nc1
Qb1 64. Bb7 Kg7 65. Bd5 Qa1 66. Bh1 Kh7 67. Bb7 Kh6 68. Bg2 Qe5 69. Bd5 Kg6
70. Ne2 Qa1+ 71. Nc1 Kg5 72. Bc4 Qf6 73. Ne2 Qa1+ 74. Nc1 Qb1 75. Bd3 Qb2
76. Bc4 Qa1 77. Bd5 Qf6 78. Ne2 Qa1+ 79. Nc1 Qe5 80. Ne2 Kf6 81. Bc4 Qa1+
82. Nc1 Qd4 83. Ne2 Qa1+ 84. Nc1 Qe5 85. Ne2 Kg7 86. Bd5 Qa1+ 87. Nc1 Qe5
88. Nd3 Qa1+ 89. Nc1 Kf8 90. Kc2 Qf6 91. Ne2 Qg6+ 92. Kd1 Qb1+ 93. Nc1 Qb2
94. Bc4 Qe5 95. Ne2 Qa1+ 96. Nc1 h4 97. gxh4 g3 98. Bd5 Qf6 99. Ne2 Qxh4
100. Kc2 Qh7+ 101. Kc1 Qc7+ 102. Kd1 Qg7 103. Kc2 Qh7+ 104. Kc1 Qg6 105.
Bg2 Qf6 106. Kc2 Qf2 107. Nc1 Qg1 108. Nd3 Qa1 109. Nc1 Qf6 110. Ne2 Qg6+
111. Kc1 Qg7 112. Kc2 Qa1 113. Nc1 Ke8 114. Nc4 Qf6 115. Nd3 Qg5 116. Ne3
Kd8 117. Nc4 Qh5 118. Ne3 Kc7 119. Nb2 Kb8 120. Nbc4 Qg6+ 121. Kc1 Qf6 122.
Kb1 Qd4 123. Bf3 Kc7 124. Bg2 Qd3+ 125. Kc1 Qd4 126. Kb1 Kd7 127. Bh3+ Kd8
128. Bg2 Kc7 129. Nd5+ Kb8 130. Nde3 Kc7 131. Nd5+ Kc8 132. Nde3 Qd3+ 133.
Kb2 Qd4+ 134. Kb1 Kb8 135. Bc6 Qd3+ 136. Kc1 Qd4 137. Kb1 Qd3+ 138. Kb2 Ka7
139. Bg2 Kb8 140. Kc1 Qd4 141. Kb1 Ka7 142. Bf3 Qf6 143. Bg2 Qd4 144. a4
bxa3 145. Ka2 Ka6 146. Bf1 Ka7 147. Bg2 Qd3 148. Kxa3 Qb1 149. Nxa5 Qc1+
150. Ka4 Qxd2 151. Nac4 Qa2+ 152. Kb4 Kb8 153. Kc3 Qa1+ 154. Kd3 Qb1+ 155.
Kc3 Qe1+ 156. Kd3 Qb1+ 157. Kc3 Qe1+ 158. Kc2 Ka7 159. Kd3 Qb1+ 160. Kc3
Qa1+ 161. Kb4 Qb1 162. Kc3 Qe1+ 163. Kd3 Qb4 164. Kc2 Qf8 165. Kd3 Qb4 166.
Kc2 Qe7 167. Kd3 Qd7+ 168. Kc2 Qh7+ 169. Kd2 Qd7+ 170. Kc3 Qg7+ 171. Kd3
Qg6+ 172. Kd4 Qg7+ 173. Kd3 Qh7+ 174. Kc3 Qh8+ 175. Kd3 Qa1 176. b4 Qe1
177. Nc2 Qd1+ 178. Kc3 Qg1 179. N4e3 Qf2 180. Kd3 Kb8 181. Nd4 Qf6 182. b5
Qg6+ 183. Be4 Qd6 184. Bg2 Qg6+ 185. Be4 Qh5 186. b6 g2 187. Nxg2 Qd1+ 188.
Kc4 Qc1+ 189. Kb4 Qd2+ 190. Kc4 Qc1+ 191. Kb4 Qd2+ 192. Kc4 Qa2+ 193. Kc5
Qa3+ 194. Kc4 Qa2+ 195. Kb4 Qd2+ {3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

[supersharp77]

Note: What is the true value of a the Queen if it can NOT win even against two Knights, but lets start the test with Black to play and can NOT win against 3 knights first.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.01.18"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Crystal.4.0.x64.avx2"]
[Black "Stockfish-windows-2022-x86-64-avx2 [004]"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3525"]
[Time "17:42:52"]
[WhiteElo "3500"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "5k2/q7/8/4N3/8/3N1N2/8/5K2 b - - 0 1"]
[Termination "rules infraction"]
[PlyCount "1"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"][/pgn]

Well People who have used Chessmaster GUI have probably been messing around with Piece values for around 30 years or so now because 'Chessmaster' had settings where you could adjust pawns queens..rooks...Bishops...etc for the various "personalities".....Most of the "settings are variable depending on the game type you are playing....(Open or closed...Early or middlegame or Late) plus positional considerations...A pawn could be anwhere between 0 and 10 depending on where it is (and when)...A knight 0 and 8... two connected knights 6-10 two terrible knights could be worthless! bad bishop could be a negative...two good bishops worth almost a queen....Two Rooks are probably not normally 10.0 but sometimes could be more....A queen is always the most powerful piece on the board but only in concert with other pieces...(knight...pawns Rook Bishop etc) A queen alone is worth only a rook & a Bishop...(6-7 points) Actual piece values are a "trade secret"... all the programmers use some number and probably they run the gamut based on what I've seen...Morphy (& Komodo) in their "Odds Games" gives a great hint on these issues....