What Was Your Longest-Lived PC?

[smatovic]

...
It seems to me that Windows and the PC survive because of network effects (you're there because everyone else is there) and inertia (when the time comes to get a new device, the easiest decision is to get another one of what you've already got).

I think it is about the power users, everybody knows somebody to fix their Windows PC (and printers), if the power users switch then you get the end users too...

--
Srdja

[mvanthoor]

I can understand why the Raspberry Pi hasn't replaced it: this device, although available for well under $10, is absolutely useless to most people.

The Raspberry Pi is useful to tinker with, and to provide services such as a share with music for streaming, or in my case, as a controller for a DGT board. It's not useful for doing work on. Too slow.

I am disappointed that more people haven't taken to Chromebooks. They're secure, they start up in less than 10 seconds, applications load quickly, they cost a lot less than a Windows laptop, the battery life is really good, they run most of the applications in Google Play (and many Linux applications) and if it breaks, your new one will be up and running about 5 minutes after you switch it on. This ought to be the device of choice for most people.

And have your complete computing needs at the mercy of one company? No thanks.

Going in the other direction, you have the Apple Macs, where you get to pay twice as much for everything.

Even though I use an iPhone and two iPads, precisely because they provide what I need/want, I'd never use an Apple computer. I just built one of the most powerful consumer desktop computers possible. I wouldn't even have been able to get anything close to that speed for the price I paid with any Apple computer.

Windows, the OS for PCs, is bloaty. I like that it has a lot of features - but the OS taking over 30Gb is Microsoft taking liberties IMO.

It seems to me that Windows and the PC survive because of network effects (you're there because everyone else is there) and inertia (when the time comes to get a new device, the easiest decision is to get another one of what you've already got).

The one thing people forget is that the PC + Windows has a critical mass, created by the fact that you can do literally ANYTHING on it.

Windows won the desktop wars in the early to mid 90's, so every company jumped on the Windows train. If you want to run a specific application, you can be SURE that there is a Windows version... sometimes ONLY a Windows version. If it's a small application you use a small computer. If it's an application that needs massive power, you use a big PC, a dual-CPU workstation, or even a server if you have to.

Linux is a good operating system for servers; even for the desktop if it has what you need, but you will never see companies switch to it as long as it doesn't run industry-standard software (or something equivalent to it): the Adobe Suite, Autodesk software, LOTS and LOTS of scientific and engineering software only developed for Windows, Microsoft Office for "normal" companies (even though I think you don't actually _NEED_ Office anymore now that VBA has been basically killed off, but it stays put because of its momentum).

Windows stays around not because it's the best operating system, but because it runs the software people (and companies) want to run, and it runs them on the hardware of their choice.

Me, at home? I can do 90% of the things I want to do in Linux now. The last 10% is photography, where Capture One and Affinity Photo have no peers in the Linux world (and no, DarkTable and GIMP are not an option). Thus I run them in a Windows virtual machine. I don't really use Windows itself anymore; I just start it to be able to start those two programs. And, recently, since I picked up chess study again, I use it to run Chessbase. Everything after version 12 will just not run under WINE. SCID is a good database (especially since version 5), but it lacks many features that Chessbase has. Even though I intend to one day start developing my own chess database just for fun, I don't pretend that it will ever equal Chessbase; SCID at the most, TBH.

[towforce]

I can understand why the Raspberry Pi hasn't replaced it: this device, although available for well under $10, is absolutely useless to most people.

The Raspberry Pi is useful to tinker with, and to provide services such as a share with music for streaming, or in my case, as a controller for a DGT board. It's not useful for doing work on. Too slow.

I am disappointed that more people haven't taken to Chromebooks. They're secure, they start up in less than 10 seconds, applications load quickly, they cost a lot less than a Windows laptop, the battery life is really good, they run most of the applications in Google Play (and many Linux applications) and if it breaks, your new one will be up and running about 5 minutes after you switch it on. This ought to be the device of choice for most people.

And have your complete computing needs at the mercy of one company? No thanks.

Going in the other direction, you have the Apple Macs, where you get to pay twice as much for everything.

Even though I use an iPhone and two iPads, precisely because they provide what I need/want, I'd never use an Apple computer. I just built one of the most powerful consumer desktop computers possible. I wouldn't even have been able to get anything close to that speed for the price I paid with any Apple computer.

Windows, the OS for PCs, is bloaty. I like that it has a lot of features - but the OS taking over 30Gb is Microsoft taking liberties IMO.

It seems to me that Windows and the PC survive because of network effects (you're there because everyone else is there) and inertia (when the time comes to get a new device, the easiest decision is to get another one of what you've already got).

The one thing people forget is that the PC + Windows has a critical mass, created by the fact that you can do literally ANYTHING on it.

Windows won the desktop wars in the early to mid 90's, so every company jumped on the Windows train. If you want to run a specific application, you can be SURE that there is a Windows version... sometimes ONLY a Windows version. If it's a small application you use a small computer. If it's an application that needs massive power, you use a big PC, a dual-CPU workstation, or even a server if you have to.

Linux is a good operating system for servers; even for the desktop if it has what you need, but you will never see companies switch to it as long as it doesn't run industry-standard software (or something equivalent to it): the Adobe Suite, Autodesk software, LOTS and LOTS of scientific and engineering software only developed for Windows, Microsoft Office for "normal" companies (even though I think you don't actually _NEED_ Office anymore now that VBA has been basically killed off, but it stays put because of its momentum).

Windows stays around not because it's the best operating system, but because it runs the software people (and companies) want to run, and it runs them on the hardware of their choice.

Me, at home? I can do 90% of the things I want to do in Linux now. The last 10% is photography, where Capture One and Affinity Photo have no peers in the Linux world (and no, DarkTable and GIMP are not an option). Thus I run them in a Windows virtual machine. I don't really use Windows itself anymore; I just start it to be able to start those two programs. And, recently, since I picked up chess study again, I use it to run Chessbase. Everything after version 12 will just not run under WINE. SCID is a good database (especially since version 5), but it lacks many features that Chessbase has. Even though I intend to one day start developing my own chess database just for fun, I don't pretend that it will ever equal Chessbase; SCID at the most, TBH.

Thank you for these thoughtful points.

[smatovic]

Followup:

Started my decennial retro-session:

- Atari 800 XE up and running, XL 1050 disk drive + 6/6 disks working, XC 12 tape drive + 6/6 tapes working
- Atari VCS + 1/1 cartridge up and running, one game port went broken - needs soldering
- Amiga 500 up and running, battery from 512KB RAM extension leaked, one Joystick needed soldering, one SCART cable went broken, 3.5" floppy disks are poor - only 2/7 working

Bought a new set of disks and tapes and some interfaces, to copy images from PC onto oldies.

--
Srdja

[kasinp]

Still able to run three Q6600 with Windows XP-64. I built one in 2007, and bought the other two (Acer) in 2008.

Each time I start one of these I weep for the days of Win XP-64. Clean and robust. For someone who used these almost exclusively for computer chess, the simplicity and no-bs efficiency of the OS were amazing.

[Frank Quisinsky]

1.
A Dual Pentium I 733Mhz with an Abit board.
With a mega / mega great OS: Windows NT-4
Used for ponder= on tourneys in Winboard times and since a while again.

If I used ... AnMon - Zarkov is running.
Sorry, no games over 100 moves ... sorry again!
Most goes not longer as 70 moves.



I know, should shut my face.

2.
486/66Mhz notebook ...
Used for a old German Football Manager game "Anstoss 1"
Yes, at this times my favorite club are in German League 1 (SG Wattenscheid 09), today in League 5.

3.
But what I like most ...
A Casio chipcard database from 1988 (clear, a bit thicker than a chipcard today).
I used it for flight plans (first hobby of mine, spotting ... airliners) and in my photocase I have two old chess computers integrated: Enough space in the near of Nikons. Novag Super VIP II and Novag Sapphire II. So I can play chess when it's boring at the airports. Over 1500 games played in the last 30 years. Two games played by an AirCanada captain (against Super VIP II he won both).



Best
Frank

[chetday]

Bought my first computer in 1985, I think it was. An Apple IIe. A few years later I bought my first hard drive. A whopping 80 megabytes. I never thought I'd fill that drive. It cost $1200 at the time. I'm currently jonesing for a flash drive the size of my pinkie finger. 1TB USB Flash Drive Storage USB. $19.95. Seriously, $19.95. Man, if only prices for everything else modeled computer tech prices, eh?

[Frank Quisinsky]

Forgotten ...
Some years I had in my Mirror cabinet in bathroom (hope this English is right, we say Alibert) the technic from an old Mach III chess computer. If closed I can see the display. Every morning I made my move, the computer runs in Analyze-mode. That was nice but my girlfriend had some years really a problem with it ... red light in bath-room ... the display. I never understand it. A conversion from a Technique freak I know. I hope a chess computer lover will not read it what I do with this great chess computer. The chesscomputer runs with 20Mhz, not with 16 and was tuned for the Alibert.



But sometimes the real queens can be very danger! Not important, I had a long time fun with it.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Yes, the Intel Q6600 processor was great!

I also used three out of four Q6600 systems for my older SWCR RatingList. Created for the newspaper Schach-Welt ... by GM Jörg Hickl, I worked with him at that time). Later I used the Q9550 processor for the ratings. Really better, but much more expensive. In the following years I often saw Q6600 processors on ebay. I think the most popular Intel processor. The Q9550s on eBay are much rarer. I started playing Winboard with an AMD K6-200 processor. The first Winboard tournaments with the first Winboard engines ran on this processor. SSEChess, TheCrazyBishop, Tristram, of course Zarkov from John Stanback, Crafty, EXchess, ZChess by Franck ZIBI Gromit by Frank Schneider and Stober from Tom Kerrington (Tom's main program was never available). A simple processor, but very fast at the time. Later with AMD K6-300 and as Dual Pentium I 733Mhz. But the dual Intel Celerons with 400Mhz are also very very nice (not expensive) for chess and the first Ponder=on games on a PC ... without the autoplayer cable by Chilly Donninger possible.

Ah, and in secret mission ...
Also Shredder 3 runs with Winboard and different Nimzos a long time before we can public it.
You know, commercials fighting a bit vs. the free protocols a long time but used it itself (Winboard).

And the ponder= on engine problems started with better hardware.
No, no the programmers fixed that.

Different programmers bougth the first 4-kern CPU for around 20.000 DM ...