Berserk12 Slighty better than Berserk 11.1

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chessica
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Re: Berserk12 Slighty better than Berserk 11.1

Post by chessica »

Code: Select all

-----------------------------Rating.dat:-----------------------------

30.10.2023 20:08:34 :

    Program                          Elo    +   -   Games   Score   Av.Op.  Draws

  1 Cfish 060821                   : 3551   64  57    60    73.3 %   3375   50.0 %
  2 Crystal-6-pmt                  : 3539   60  49    60    71.7 %   3377   56.7 %
  3 Berserk-11.1                   : 3487   72  70    60    64.2 %   3386   38.3 %
  4 Berserk 12                     : 3370   69  69    60    45.0 %   3405   40.0 %
  5 Minic_3.32                     : 3355   68  69    60    42.5 %   3408   41.7 %
  6 Ethereal-14-gcc                : 3274   69  72    60    30.0 %   3421   40.0 %
  7 Komodo-12.1.1                  : 3223   79  82    60    23.3 %   3430   30.0 %


----------------------------Programs.dat:----------------------------
Individual statistics:

1 Cfish 060821              : 3551   60 (+ 29,= 30,-  1), 73.3 %

Berserk 12                    :  10 (+  5,=  5,-  0), 75.0 %
Komodo-12.1.1                 :  10 (+  8,=  2,-  0), 90.0 %
Ethereal-14-gcc               :  10 (+  7,=  3,-  0), 85.0 %
Berserk-11.1                  :  10 (+  4,=  5,-  1), 65.0 %
Crystal-6-pmt                 :  10 (+  0,= 10,-  0), 50.0 %
Minic_3.32                    :  10 (+  5,=  5,-  0), 75.0 %

2 Crystal-6-pmt             : 3539   60 (+ 26,= 34,-  0), 71.7 %

Berserk 12                    :  10 (+  3,=  7,-  0), 65.0 %
Komodo-12.1.1                 :  10 (+  9,=  1,-  0), 95.0 %
Ethereal-14-gcc               :  10 (+  6,=  4,-  0), 80.0 %
Berserk-11.1                  :  10 (+  2,=  8,-  0), 60.0 %
Cfish 060821                  :  10 (+  0,= 10,-  0), 50.0 %
Minic_3.32                    :  10 (+  6,=  4,-  0), 80.0 %

3 Berserk-11.1              : 3487   60 (+ 27,= 23,- 10), 64.2 %

Berserk 12                    :  10 (+  4,=  5,-  1), 65.0 %
Komodo-12.1.1                 :  10 (+  7,=  2,-  1), 80.0 %
Ethereal-14-gcc               :  10 (+  9,=  1,-  0), 95.0 %
Cfish 060821                  :  10 (+  1,=  5,-  4), 35.0 %
Crystal-6-pmt                 :  10 (+  0,=  8,-  2), 40.0 %
Minic_3.32                    :  10 (+  6,=  2,-  2), 70.0 %

4 Berserk 12                : 3370   60 (+ 15,= 24,- 21), 45.0 %

Komodo-12.1.1                 :  10 (+  6,=  0,-  4), 60.0 %
Ethereal-14-gcc               :  10 (+  4,=  4,-  2), 60.0 %
Berserk-11.1                  :  10 (+  1,=  5,-  4), 35.0 %
Cfish 060821                  :  10 (+  0,=  5,-  5), 25.0 %
Crystal-6-pmt                 :  10 (+  0,=  7,-  3), 35.0 %
Minic_3.32                    :  10 (+  4,=  3,-  3), 55.0 %

5 Minic_3.32                : 3355   60 (+ 13,= 25,- 22), 42.5 %

Berserk 12                    :  10 (+  3,=  3,-  4), 45.0 %
Komodo-12.1.1                 :  10 (+  4,=  6,-  0), 70.0 %
Ethereal-14-gcc               :  10 (+  4,=  5,-  1), 65.0 %
Berserk-11.1                  :  10 (+  2,=  2,-  6), 30.0 %
Cfish 060821                  :  10 (+  0,=  5,-  5), 25.0 %
Crystal-6-pmt                 :  10 (+  0,=  4,-  6), 20.0 %

6 Ethereal-14-gcc           : 3274   60 (+  6,= 24,- 30), 30.0 %

Berserk 12                    :  10 (+  2,=  4,-  4), 40.0 %
Komodo-12.1.1                 :  10 (+  3,=  7,-  0), 65.0 %
Berserk-11.1                  :  10 (+  0,=  1,-  9),  5.0 %
Cfish 060821                  :  10 (+  0,=  3,-  7), 15.0 %
Crystal-6-pmt                 :  10 (+  0,=  4,-  6), 20.0 %
Minic_3.32                    :  10 (+  1,=  5,-  4), 35.0 %

7 Komodo-12.1.1             : 3223   60 (+  5,= 18,- 37), 23.3 %

Berserk 12                    :  10 (+  4,=  0,-  6), 40.0 %
Ethereal-14-gcc               :  10 (+  0,=  7,-  3), 35.0 %
Berserk-11.1                  :  10 (+  1,=  2,-  7), 20.0 %
Cfish 060821                  :  10 (+  0,=  2,-  8), 10.0 %
Crystal-6-pmt                 :  10 (+  0,=  1,-  9),  5.0 %
Minic_3.32                    :  10 (+  0,=  6,-  4), 30.0 %


----------------------------General.dat:-----------------------------

Games        :    210 (finished)

White Wins   :     61 (29.0 %)
Black Wins   :     60 (28.6 %)
Draws        :     89 (42.4 %)
Unfinished   :      0

White Perf.  : 50.2 %
Black Perf.  : 49.8 %

ECO A =      5 Games ( 2.4 %)
ECO B =     63 Games (30.0 %)
ECO C =     57 Games (27.1 %)
ECO D =     70 Games (33.3 %)
ECO E =     15 Games ( 7.1 %)


----------------------------Cluster.dat:-----------------------------
Cluster No. 1:

Berserk 12                     (6)
Komodo-12.1.1                  (6)
Ethereal-14-gcc                (6)
Berserk-11.1                   (6)
Cfish 060821                   (6)
Crystal-6-pmt                  (6)
Minic_3.32                     (6)

7 programs, 210 games

itoffset = -0.437781
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chessica
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Re: Berserk12 Slighty better than Berserk 11.1

Post by chessica »

Code: Select all

01.11.2023 17:56:02 :

    Program                          Elo    +   -   Games   Score   Av.Op.  Draws

  1 Crystal-6-pmt                  : 3546   55  47    70    72.1 %   3381   55.7 %
  2 Cfish 060821                   : 3541   56  49    70    71.4 %   3382   54.3 %
  3 Berserk-11.1                   : 3477   60  59    70    62.1 %   3391   47.1 %
  4 RubiChess-20230410_sse2        : 3441   53  52    70    56.4 %   3396   58.6 %
  5 Berserk 12                     : 3375   64  64    70    45.7 %   3405   40.0 %
  6 Minic_3.32                     : 3353   59  60    70    42.1 %   3408   47.1 %
  7 Ethereal-14-gcc                : 3257   65  67    70    27.9 %   3422   38.6 %
  8 Komodo-12.1.1                  : 3210   73  76    70    22.1 %   3429   30.0 %

Code: Select all

01.11.2023 17:56:02 :

Games        :    280 (finished)

White Wins   :     78 (27.9 %)
Black Wins   :     72 (25.7 %)
Draws        :    130 (46.4 %)
Unfinished   :      0

White Perf.  : 51.1 %
Black Perf.  : 48.9 %

ECO A =      5 Games ( 1.8 %)
ECO B =    103 Games (36.8 %)
ECO C =     72 Games (25.7 %)
ECO D =     80 Games (28.6 %)
ECO E =     20 Games ( 7.1 %)
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chessica
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Re: Berserk12 Slighty better than Berserk 11.1???

Post by chessica »

The MEA test shows the same result as in the tournament I ran, so so far everything is ok.


MEA

Multiple Engine Analysis

EPD : epd\sts-sf15.epd

Time : 400ms


Code: Select all

5	berserk-11.1	12.779	1081	1500	3834	15.000	85.2%	400	64	1

---

33	Berserk-12	12.309	1025	1500	3694	15.000	82.1%	400	64	1
Original Design
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dkappe
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Re: Berserk12 Slighty better than Berserk 11.1

Post by dkappe »

To get about even with Torch at 57.5k nodes, Berserk 11.x needs 170k nodes. Berserk 12 needs 150k nodes. This is over 180,000 games each (90,000 game pairs) of a mix of balanced and unbalanced openings. I find this idea that Berserk 12 is weaker than Berserk 11 to be unlikely.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
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chessica
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Re: Berserk12 Slighty better than Berserk 11.1

Post by chessica »

I can't interpret the results correctly, firstly the tournament result and secondly, independently, the MEA result.

Both say the same thing.
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RubiChess
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Re: Berserk12 Slighty better than Berserk 11.1

Post by RubiChess »

You are using SSE2 build of Rubi

Code: Select all

...
4 RubiChess-20230410_sse2        : 3441   53  52    70    56.4 %   3396   58.6 %
...
So I see too possibilities for Berserk 12 being < Berserk 11.1 in your tests:
1. Your PC is 20 years old and bigger net of Berserk 12 compared to 11.1 is a disadvantage on this oldtimer.
2. You don't know what you do and so everything is possible.

Regards, Andreas
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chessica
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Re: Berserk12 Slighty better than Berserk 11.1

Post by chessica »

RubiChess wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:15 pm You are using SSE2 build of Rubi

Code: Select all

...
4 RubiChess-20230410_sse2        : 3441   53  52    70    56.4 %   3396   58.6 %
...
So I see too possibilities for Berserk 12 being < Berserk 11.1 in your tests:
1. Your PC is 20 years old and bigger net of Berserk 12 compared to 11.1 is a disadvantage on this oldtimer.
2. You don't know what you do and so everything is possible.

Regards, Andreas
:? :? :?
:( :( :(

My test was carried out reproducibly for all engines.

Please refer to the facts and refrain from personal attacks.

Then please show us the test values from MEA that were determined with your PC.
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RubiChess
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Re: Berserk12 Slighty better than Berserk 11.1

Post by RubiChess »

chessica wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:11 am My test was carried out reproducibly for all engines.

Please refer to the facts and refrain from personal attacks.
Then please explain: Why RubiChess-20230410_sse2
chessica wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:11 am Then please show us the test values from MEA that were determined with your PC.
I'm not interested in any test using static set of positions but I did several real tests which all show Berserk 12 > 11.1
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RubiChess
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Re: Berserk12 Slighty better than Berserk 11.1

Post by RubiChess »

RubiChess wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 1:49 pm Then please explain: Why RubiChess-20230410_sse2
Found the most possible answer to this question here

So read again what I wrote in my first post and already gave the answer to the question why Berserk 12 < Berserk 11.1 on your oldtimer in option 1 and be happy that option 2 seems not valid.
RubiChess wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:15 pm 1. Your PC is 20 years old and bigger net of Berserk 12 compared to 11.1 is a disadvantage on this oldtimer.
2. You don't know what you do and so everything is possible.
chessica wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:11 am :? :? :?
:( :( :(
Some information about the PC you are using would have done better than a bunch of smileys.
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Chessqueen
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Re: Berserk12 Slighty better than Berserk 11.1

Post by Chessqueen »

chessica wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:11 am
RubiChess wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:15 pm You are using SSE2 build of Rubi

Code: Select all

...
4 RubiChess-20230410_sse2        : 3441   53  52    70    56.4 %   3396   58.6 %
...
So I see too possibilities for Berserk 12 being < Berserk 11.1 in your tests:
1. Your PC is 20 years old and bigger net of Berserk 12 compared to 11.1 is a disadvantage on this oldtimer.
2. You don't know what you do and so everything is possible.

Regards, Andreas
:? :? :?
:( :( :(

My test was carried out reproducibly for all engines.

Please refer to the facts and refrain from personal attacks.

Then please show us the test values from MEA that were determined with your PC.
Do you want me to purchase this Refurbished PC for You as a Gift ? https://discountelectronics.com/clearan ... IwQAvD_BwE
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