Well, as long as the King is not on f8, it seems to me that playing Qa4 is useless.
Alex
Moderator: Ras
The study is correct, to get more sidelines than given in the .pgn from HHdb, take Huntsman, with some Backward from end of .pgn you get the DTM- output quickly and it then it shows the different ways to mate from further deviations well. SF versions with NNUE to be switched off (Huntsman automatically doesn't use it with Mate Search true) are faster in Backward too it seems, e.g. older CorChess- versions without NNUE- usage are well, using less nullmove pruning than original SF does, which helps here too. Sting of course is good also, but didn't solve from starting position so far at my short- time trials neither, don't have much hardware- time free right now.
viewtopic.php?p=971549#p971549Chris Formula wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 8:19 pm very interesting position. it looks like white can win this if black plays sub-optimal moves. however, if black continues to exploit the ideas of d7 for its king and sacrificing its black bishop, then it seems a draw.
Code: Select all
26.00 0:01 +15.33-- 1.Lxd2 Kf8 (2.742.750) 1818
...
33.18 0:03 0.00 1.Lxd2 Kf8 2.Da1 Ke8 3.Da7 Kd7 4.Kf3 Kc8 5.Kg4 Kd7 6.Lf4 Kc8 7.Da8+ Kd7 8.Da5 Kd8 9.Kf3 Kd7 10.Ke2 Kc8 11.Le3 Kd7 12.Da7 Kc8 13.Ld2 Kd7 14.Kf2 (15.932.435) 4921
34.11 0:03 +0.08++ 1.Lb2 (18.894.484) 5222
34.18 0:05 0.00 1.Lb2 Lc1 2.Lxc1 Kf8 3.La3 Ke8 4.Db1 Kd8 5.Ke1 Kd7 6.Kd1 Ke8 7.Kd2 Kf8 8.Ke1 Ke8 9.Lb2 Kd8 10.Kd2 Ke8 (36.144.032) 7121
...
46.18 0:16 0.00 1.Lb2 Lc1 2.Lxc1 Kf8 3.La3 Ke8 4.Db1 Kd8 5.Ke1 Kd7 6.Kd1 Ke8 7.Kd2 Kf8 8.Ke1 Ke8 (141.307.595) 8761
47.07 0:25 +0.08++ 1.La3 (250.309.477) 9635
47.18 0:33 0.00 1.La3 Lc3 2.Ke3 Lb2 3.Dd3 Lc3 4.Dc2 Lb2 5.Db3 Lc1+ 6.Kf2 Kf8 7.Da4 Le3+ 8.Kf3 bxa4 9.b5 Lxd4 10.bxc6 bxc6 11.Kf4 Lg1 12.Lb2 Lxc5 13.b7 La7 14.La3+ (335.724.786) 10159
...
48.01 1:08 +0.73++ 1.La3 (790.894.459) 11573
48.01 1:17 +1.14++ 1.La3 (909.862.120) 11734
48.01 1:30 +1.75++ 1.La3 (1.087.871.070) 12005
48.01 1:40 +2.67++ 1.La3 (1.218.808.222) 12107
...
48.01 2:08 +9.16++ 1.La3 (1.540.922.096) 11985
48.01 2:22 +13.77++ 1.La3 (1.756.892.190) 12344
48.01 2:43 +20.69++ 1.La3 (2.149.479.544) 13178
...
48.01 5:27 +104.91 1.La3 (6.845.105.406) 20921
49.18 31:20 +46.50 1.La3 Lc3 2.Ke3 Lb2 3.Dd3 Lc3 4.Dc2 Lb2 5.Db3 Lc1+ 6.Kf2 Lb2 7.Kf3 Kf8 8.Da4 bxa4 9.b5 Lxd4 10.bxc6 bxc6 11.Kf4 Lg1 12.Lb2 Lxc5 13.La3 Ke8 14.Lxc5 (48.815.410.648) 25955
50.01 31:23 +46.58++ 1.La3 (48.861.952.778) 25937
...
51.18 35:45 +97.37 1.La3 Lc3 2.Ke3 Lb2 3.Dd3 Lc3 4.Dc2 Lb2 5.Db3 Lc1+ 6.Kf2 Lb2 7.Kf3 Kf8 8.Da4 bxa4 9.b5 Lxd4 10.bxc6 bxc6 11.Lc1 Lxc5 12.La3 Ke8 13.Lxc5 Kd8 14.Ke3 (54.791.788.937) 25535
Sting SF Black Hole 8 (in advanced preparation) achieves this too (1024M Hash, 1 thread, very old Pentium) without any human help. It is possible thanks to AI codes (Black Hole algorithm with skepticism and intuition). I hope this idea will enable future AI machines to land in the Hudson River.peter wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 11:57 pm Sting yet did get it here started with empty hash too (8G, which is the maximum for this engine, 30 threads of 16x3.5GHz CPU):
---
Have to stop that again now, output- lines show the principally right way with the Queen- sac, even if DTM isn't given, anyhow that's not a mate in x- puzzle.
Go to the X.com twitter link above. All explained in consecutive tweets in glorious technicolour.Brunetti wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:05 pm Hello,
sorry, but I can’t find a winning maneuver. Here’s my analysis so far:
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "talkchess"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[Annotator "Brunetti,Alex"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "6k1/1p3p1p/1Pb1pPpP/1pPpP1P1/1P1P4/8/3b1K2/2B2Q2 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "14"]
[EventDate "2024.11.10"]
[SourceDate "2024.11.10"]
1. Ba3 (1. Bb2 Be3+ 2. Kf3 Bc1 3. Qd3 Bxb2 4. Qb1 Ba3 5. Qa2 Kf8 6. Qxa3 Ke8)
1... Bc3 (1... Kf8 2. Qa1) (1... Bc3 2. Ke3 (2. Qd3 Kf8 3. Ke3 (3. Qxb5 Bxd4+
4. Kf3 Bxb5 5. Kf4 (5. c6) 5... Ke8 6. c6 Bxc6 7. b5 Bxb5) 3... Ke8 4. Qe2) (2.
Qe2 Bxd4+ $4 (2... Be1+ 3. Ke3 Bd2+ 4. Qxd2 Kf8 5. Qa2 Ke8 $11) 3. Kf1 $18) (2.
Qb1 Bb2 3. Qa2 Kf8 $11) 2... Ba1 (2... Kf8 $4 3. Qxb5 $18) (2... Bb2 3. Qd3 Bc3
4. Qc2 Bb2 5. Qb3 Bc1+ (5... Bc1+ 6. Kd3 Bb2 7. Qa2 Kf8 8. Qb3) (5... Bc3 $4 6.
Qa2 $18) 6. Kf2 (6. Kd3 Bb2 (6... Kf8) 7. Qa2 (7. Qa4 $11) 7... Kf8 8. Ke3)
6... Bb2 (6... Kf8 $4 $18 7. Qa4 $18 Be3+ $18 8. Kf3 $18 bxa4 $18) 7. Qd3 (7.
Qa4) (7. Ke3 Bc1+ (7... Kf8 $4 8. Qa4 $18) 8. Kd3 Bb2 9. Qa2 (9. Qc2 Kf8 10.
Qa4 bxa4 11. b5 Bxb5+) 9... Kf8 $11 10. Qxd5 Bxd5 11. Bxb2) 7... Bc3 8. Ke3 Bb2
(8... Kf8 9. Qxb5 $18) 9. Qb3 Bc1+ (9... Kf8 10. Qa4 $18) 10. Kd3 Bb2 11. Qa2 (
11. Qa4) (11. Kd2 Kf8 12. Qa4) 11... Kf8 12. Qb3 Ke8 13. Qa4) 3. Qd3 (3. Qxa1
Kf8 4. Bc1 Ke8 $11 5. Qa7 Kd7) (3. Qe2 Bb2) 3... Bc3 4. Qd1 (4. Qb1) (4. Ke2
Bb2 5. Ke3 (5. Qb3 Kf8 6. Qa4) 5... Bc3 6. Qc2 Kf8 (6... Bb2 7. Qb3 Kf8)) 4...
Bb2 (4... Kf8 5. Qa4 $18 Bd2+) 5. Qb3 (5. Qa4) 5... Bc1+ (5... Bc3) 6. Kd3 Bb2
7. Ke3 (7. Qc2 Kf8 $11 8. Qa4 $11 bxa4 9. b5) 7... Bc1+ 8. Ke2 Kf8 (8... Bb2 $4
9. Kf3 $18 (9. Kd3 Kf8 10. Qa4) 9... Kf8 $4 (9... Kf8 $4 10. Qa4 $18 bxa4 11.
b5 $18 Bxd4 12. bxc6 $18 bxc6 13. Kf4 $16) (9... Bc1 $18) 10. Qa4 $18 bxa4 11.
b5 $18 Bxd4 12. bxc6 $18 bxc6 13. Kf4 $18 Ke8 14. b7) 9. Qa4 bxa4 10. b5 Bxb5+)
(1... Be3+ 2. Kf3 (2. Ke2 Bc1 3. Kf3 (3. Qf3)) 2... Bc1 3. Qd3 Bb2 (3... Kf8 4.
Qxb5) (3... Kf8 4. Qxb5) 4. Qb3 Bc1 (4... Kf8 5. Qa4 bxa4 6. b5 Bxd4 7. bxc6
bxc6 8. Kf4 Bg1 9. Kg4 Bd4) 5. Qa2) 2. Ke3 (2. Qd3 Bb2 3. Qb3 Kf8 (3... Bc1 $18
) 4. Qa4 $4 (4. Qa2 Bxa3 $11) (4. Ke3 Bxa3 5. Qxa3 Ke8 $11) 4... Bxd4+ 5. Ke2
bxa4 6. b5 Bxb5+) (2. Qd1 Kf8 3. Qa4 Bxd4+ 4. Kf3 bxa4 5. b5 Bxb5 6. c6+ Ke8 7.
Kf4) 2... Ba1 (2... Bd7 3. c6 $18 Bxc6 4. Qc1 Kf8 5. Qxc3 Ke8 6. Qc5 Kd7) (2...
Kf8 3. Qxb5 $18 Bxb5 4. c6) (2... Be8 3. c6 $18) (2... Bd2+ 3. Kxd2 $18 Kh8 4.
Qa1 Kg8 5. Bb2 Kf8 6. Qa8+) (2... Bb2 3. Qd3 $18 Ba1 (3... Kf8 $4 4. Qxb5 $18)
(3... Bc1+ $4 4. Kf3 $18 Kf8 (4... Bb2 5. Qb3 $18 Kf8 $4 6. Qa4 $18 bxa4 7. b5
$18 Bxd4 8. bxc6) (4... Be3 5. Qb3 $18) (4... Bd2 5. Qb3 $18) (4... Bf4 5. Bb2
$18) (4... Bxg5 5. Bb2 $18) 5. Qxb5 $18) (3... Bc3 4. Qc2 $18 (4. Qxc3 Kf8) (4.
Qxb5 Bxb5) (4. Bb2 Kf8) (4. Bc1 Kf8 5. Qxc3 Ke8) (4. Kf3 Bb2 5. Qb3 Kf8 (5...
Bc1 $18) 6. Qa4 $18 bxa4 7. b5 Ke8 8. bxc6 Bxd4 9. cxb7 Bxe5 10. c6 Kd8 11.
Be7+) 4... Kf8 (4... Bb2 5. Qb3 $18 Ba1 (5... Kf8 6. Qa4 $18) (5... Bc3 6. Qa2
$18) (5... Bc1+ 6. Kf2 $18 Bd2 (6... Bb2 7. Kf3 $18 Kf8 8. Qa4 $18) (6... Be3+
7. Kf3 $18) (6... Kf8 7. Qa4 $18 Be3+ 8. Kf3 $18 bxa4 9. b5 $18) (6... Bf4 7.
Bc1 $18) (6... Bxg5 7. Qh3 $18) (6... Bf4 7. Bc1 $18) (6... Bxa3 7. Qxa3 $18) (
6... Bb2) 7. Qa2 $18) 6. Bb2 $18) 5. Qa4 $18 Bd2+ 6. Kf3 $18) 4. Qb3 $18 Bb2
$18 (4... Kf8 5. Qa4 $18) (4... Bc3 5. Bc1 $18) 5. Kf3 $18 (5. Kd3 $4 Kf8 6.
Ke3 (6. Qa4 $4 bxa4 $11 7. b5) 6... Ke8) 5... Kf8 $4 (5... Bc3 6. Bb2 $18) 6.
Qa4 $18) (2... Be1 3. Qe2 $18) 3. Qd3 Bc3 (3... Kf8 4. Qxb5 $18) 4. Qe2 (4. Qc2
Kf8 5. Qa2 Bb2 6. Qb3 Bc1+ 7. Ke2 Ke8) (4. Kf3 Kf8 5. Qxb5 (5. Bc1 Ke8 6. Qc2
Bb2 7. Qb3) 5... Bxb5 6. c6 Bxd4 7. Kf4 bxc6 8. b7 Ba7 $19) (4. Qb1 Bb2 5. Qa2
Kf8 6. Qb3 Ke8) (4. Qc2 Bb2 (4... Kf8 $4 5. Qa4 $18 bxa4 6. b5 $18) 5. Qb3 Bc1+
(5... Bc3 6. Bc1 $18) 6. Kd3 Bb2 7. Qa2 (7. Qd1 Bxa3 8. Qa1 Kf8 9. Qxa3 Ke8 $11
) 7... Kf8) 4... Bb2 5. Qc2 Bc1+ (5... Bc3 6. Qa2 $18) (5... Kf8 6. Qa4 $18) (
5... Bc3 6. Qa2 $18) 6. Kf3 Bxa3 (6... Bb2 7. Qb3 (7. Kg2 Kf8 $11 (7... Bc3 8.
Qa2 $18) (7... Ba1 8. Qa2 $18) 8. Qa4 bxa4 9. b5 Bxd4 $19) (7. Ke2 Kf8 8. Qa4
bxa4 9. Bxb2 $11) (7. Ke3 Bc1+ (7... Kf8 8. Qa4 $18) (7... Ba1 8. Qa2 $18) (
7... Bc3 8. Qa2 $18) 8. Ke2 Bb2 9. Qb3 (9. Qb1 Kf8 10. Qa2 Ke8 11. Qb3) 9...
Kf8 10. Kd2 Bxa3 11. Qxa3 Ke8 $11) 7... Kf8 8. Qa4 $18 bxa4 9. b5 $18) 7. Qa2 (
7. Qa4 $4 bxa4 $17) 7... Kf8 $11 *
[/pgn]
How would you improve White’s play?
Alex