GM Kaufman v.Novag Constellation 3.6 QR Odds (Moves 1-40)

[Steve B]

Returning to the now infamous position (and perhaps with a morbid need to return to the scene of the crime)

[d] 6k1/p1pr1p1p/1pq3P1/3nr1B1/2Bp2R1/1Q6/P4P1K/8 b - - 0 34

i fired up the Super Connie and let her have a go at the position

she considers the honker Qxg6 for about 15-20 seconds and then switches to the far more reasonable hxg6

Double Sigh Regards
Steve

[Terry McCracken]

Returning to the now infamous position (and perhaps with a morbid need to return to the scene of the crime)

[d] 6k1/p1pr1p1p/1pq3P1/3nr1B1/2Bp2R1/1Q6/P4P1K/8 b - - 0 34

i fired up the Super Connie and let her have a go at the position

she considers the honker Qxg6 for about 15-20 seconds and then switches to the far more reasonable hxg6

Double Sigh Regards
Steve

Isn't that strange. What happened before? Did you give it 3 min. both times?

You may have to run this test cold a few times. Too bad it hasn't a display, it might give you an idea why this happened.

Dumb & Blind Regards,

[Steve B]

Returning to the now infamous position (and perhaps with a morbid need to return to the scene of the crime)

[d] 6k1/p1pr1p1p/1pq3P1/3nr1B1/2Bp2R1/1Q6/P4P1K/8 b - - 0 34

i fired up the Super Connie and let her have a go at the position

she considers the honker Qxg6 for about 15-20 seconds and then switches to the far more reasonable hxg6

Double Sigh Regards
Steve

Isn't that strange. What happened before? Did you give it 3 min. both times?

You may have to run this test cold a few times. Too bad it hasn't a display, it might give you an idea why this happened.

Dumb & Blind Regards,

the current game is being played by the Connie 3.6 Mhz not the Super Connie
i was curious to see what the Super C would have played
Connie was released in 4 versions...
Connie 2 Mhz
Connie 3.6 Mhz
Super Connie
Connie Expert(wooden computer)

Connie And Family send their Regards
Steve

[bob]

Thanks Don for relaying Larry's move once again
i dont know why he is having all of this trouble given that the TCADMIN helped him to reset his account

anyway.....

Connie i guess shows us why she moved the R to e5 on the move before last
here.. she unleashes ..in Judit Polgar like fashion ..the shocker...

35..Rf5

[d] 6k1/p1pr1p1p/1p4q1/3n1rB1/2Bp2R1/6Q1/P4P1K/8 w - - 0 35

removes the R from attack,threatens the f2 pawn with check and has a "rattling effect "on the psyche of the opponent

Whom i kidding? regards
Steve

I play 36.Bh4. So I'll have queen vs. two rooks, and a bishop vs. a whole lot of pawns. Now I understand why Connie played ...Qg6?? As I suspected, she found a delaying move (...Rf5) which means that the mistake required a six ply search to detect, and I believe Connie usually does no more than 5 ply in 3 minutes. So no big mystery here. It just shows that computers sometimes require more ply to see things than would be the case for humans. We see that after we pin the queen it doesn't matter how many delaying moves like checks the other side has (unless they lead to something concrete). So sometimes "obvious" tactics take the engines several ply to see.

At the start of the game, I had to decide whether to play on Connie's primitive eval or on her short search. I judged that her short search was by far the bigger weakness and so chose an open game rather than an anti-computer strategy. If I were playing some deep searching program with minimal eval (for example Crafty at lowest level which Bob calls 1800 or so) at rook odds I would play closed openings. It looks now like I made the right call.

Larry

If you think about it, this is what _every_ chess tournament of the 70's and into the early 80's was like. Not enough depth, so a game wasn't over until it was actually over. In those days, it was thunder, lightning and explosions. Today it is more like a big diesel cat bulldozer slowly pushing you off the edge of the cliff. No finesse will help.

[Steve B]

I play 36.Bh4. So I'll have queen vs. two rooks, and a bishop vs. a whole lot of pawns. Now I understand why Connie played ...Qg6?? As I suspected, she found a delaying move (...Rf5) which means that the mistake required a six ply search to detect, and I believe Connie usually does no more than 5 ply in 3 minutes. So no big mystery here. It just shows that computers sometimes require more ply to see things than would be the case for humans. We see that after we pin the queen it doesn't matter how many delaying moves like checks the other side has (unless they lead to something concrete). So sometimes "obvious" tactics take the engines several ply to see.

At the start of the game, I had to decide whether to play on Connie's primitive eval or on her short search. I judged that her short search was by far the bigger weakness and so chose an open game rather than an anti-computer strategy. If I were playing some deep searching program with minimal eval (for example Crafty at lowest level which Bob calls 1800 or so) at rook odds I would play closed openings. It looks now like I made the right call.

Larry

Connie ..never one to pass up on gobbling pawns and checking the K .. kills two birds with one stone and plays..

36..Rxf2+

[d] 6k1/p1pr1p1p/1p4q1/3n4/2Bp2RB/6Q1/P4r1K/8 w - - 0 37

Having Her Cake And Eating It Too Regards
Steve

[Don]

I play 36.Bh4. So I'll have queen vs. two rooks, and a bishop vs. a whole lot of pawns. Now I understand why Connie played ...Qg6?? As I suspected, she found a delaying move (...Rf5) which means that the mistake required a six ply search to detect, and I believe Connie usually does no more than 5 ply in 3 minutes. So no big mystery here. It just shows that computers sometimes require more ply to see things than would be the case for humans. We see that after we pin the queen it doesn't matter how many delaying moves like checks the other side has (unless they lead to something concrete). So sometimes "obvious" tactics take the engines several ply to see.

At the start of the game, I had to decide whether to play on Connie's primitive eval or on her short search. I judged that her short search was by far the bigger weakness and so chose an open game rather than an anti-computer strategy. If I were playing some deep searching program with minimal eval (for example Crafty at lowest level which Bob calls 1800 or so) at rook odds I would play closed openings. It looks now like I made the right call.

Larry

Connie ..never one to pass up on gobbling pawns and checking the K .. kills two birds with one stone and plays..

36..Rxf2+

[d] 6k1/p1pr1p1p/1p4q1/3n4/2Bp2RB/6Q1/P4r1K/8 w - - 0 37

Having Her Cake And Eating It Too Regards
Steve

I put this position in a version of komodo with contempt and komodo seeks a draw if I use the default value (taking Larry's side of the game.)

But when I set the draw score to -50, Komodo goes positive after 20 ply or so. Just slightly at first, but after 28 ply Komodo thinks Larry is doing well with a score of 39 centipawns.

I find it rather interesting that Komodo tries harder to find a good move when you tell it that draws are worth -50.

[Steve B]

I put this position in a version of komodo with contempt and komodo seeks a draw if I use the default value (taking Larry's side of the game.)

But when I set the draw score to -50, Komodo goes positive after 20 ply or so. Just slightly at first, but after 28 ply Komodo thinks Larry is doing well with a score of 39 centipawns.

I find it rather interesting that Komodo tries harder to find a good move when you tell it that draws are worth -50.

Hmmm
Drawn with no contempt factor and basically still drawn after 14 moves with contempt

Yup sounds dead drawn to me

50 move rule regards
Steve

[bob]

I put this position in a version of komodo with contempt and komodo seeks a draw if I use the default value (taking Larry's side of the game.)

But when I set the draw score to -50, Komodo goes positive after 20 ply or so. Just slightly at first, but after 28 ply Komodo thinks Larry is doing well with a score of 39 centipawns.

I find it rather interesting that Komodo tries harder to find a good move when you tell it that draws are worth -50.

Hmmm
Drawn with no contempt factor and basically still drawn after 14 moves with contempt

Yup sounds dead drawn to me

50 move rule regards
Steve

Here's a suggestion:

You are posting the PGN every 10 moves if I recall? How about starting a new thread at that point? It gets _very_ hard to find the next move in all the posts in this thread.

[bob]

I play 36.Bh4. So I'll have queen vs. two rooks, and a bishop vs. a whole lot of pawns. Now I understand why Connie played ...Qg6?? As I suspected, she found a delaying move (...Rf5) which means that the mistake required a six ply search to detect, and I believe Connie usually does no more than 5 ply in 3 minutes. So no big mystery here. It just shows that computers sometimes require more ply to see things than would be the case for humans. We see that after we pin the queen it doesn't matter how many delaying moves like checks the other side has (unless they lead to something concrete). So sometimes "obvious" tactics take the engines several ply to see.

At the start of the game, I had to decide whether to play on Connie's primitive eval or on her short search. I judged that her short search was by far the bigger weakness and so chose an open game rather than an anti-computer strategy. If I were playing some deep searching program with minimal eval (for example Crafty at lowest level which Bob calls 1800 or so) at rook odds I would play closed openings. It looks now like I made the right call.

Larry

Connie ..never one to pass up on gobbling pawns and checking the K .. kills two birds with one stone and plays..

36..Rxf2+

[d] 6k1/p1pr1p1p/1p4q1/3n4/2Bp2RB/6Q1/P4r1K/8 w - - 0 37

Having Her Cake And Eating It Too Regards
Steve

I put this position in a version of komodo with contempt and komodo seeks a draw if I use the default value (taking Larry's side of the game.)

But when I set the draw score to -50, Komodo goes positive after 20 ply or so. Just slightly at first, but after 28 ply Komodo thinks Larry is doing well with a score of 39 centipawns.

I find it rather interesting that Komodo tries harder to find a good move when you tell it that draws are worth -50.

Crafty thinks white should go for the draw, since it values all the black pawns pretty highly... and it apparently thinks that as black, it should force white toward that repetition, probably because of the pinned Q.

[Steve B]

Here's a suggestion:

You are posting the PGN every 10 moves if I recall? How about starting a new thread at that point? It gets _very_ hard to find the next move in all the posts in this thread.

Perfectly OK with me
Personally i use FLAT view
this lets me see every post in the thread in chronological order since i last logged on .. no matter what particular post is being replied too
so its quite easy to see the next move after scrolling through the recent posts
however i imagine others are having the same problem so at move 41 i will start PART TWO of this now World Famous Encounter

Historical Regards
Steve