Is strelka a clone?

[Daniel Mehrmann]

Hello,

I have no patience for final conclusion from the experts that Strelka 1.8 UCI is clone or not ?!

I am still waiting to start the Strelka test,just becouse my SCCT tournament conditions are:

''All engines must be own original work (its not allowed clones)''

Hurry up guys,the poll expires in 3 Days !!!

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz

oh my godness, ahhhh, now i know i'm sleeping and this is just a dream.
Hopefully i'm waking up soon.

sleeping regards
Daniel

[Terry McCracken]

Thought it might be fun to have a poll Experts and duffers, what is your opinion?

as i duffer i am happy to vote!

this makes about 6 different running threads on the Strelka Clone issue

i am proposing a separate Sub-Fora be set up here called..


Rybka-Strelka Clone Wars Sub Fora Regards
Steve

I agree completely this has taken too much room in the general forum.

FWIW S is a botched clone of R Regards,
Terry

[Sedat Canbaz]

Hello,

I have no patience for final conclusion from the experts that Strelka 1.8 UCI is clone or not ?!

I am still waiting to start the Strelka test,just becouse my SCCT tournament conditions are:

''All engines must be own original work (its not allowed clones)''

Hurry up guys,the poll expires in 3 Days !!!

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz

What is *your* definition of a clone?

As far as i know you are expert,maybe you can inform us about clones!
And one question more:as you expert,is Srelka 1.8 UCI a clone ???

Thanks,
Sedat

[Sedat Canbaz]

Hello,

I have no patience for final conclusion from the experts that Strelka 1.8 UCI is clone or not ?!

I am still waiting to start the Strelka test,just becouse my SCCT tournament conditions are:

''All engines must be own original work (its not allowed clones)''

Hurry up guys,the poll expires in 3 Days !!!

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz

oh my godness, ahhhh, now i know i'm sleeping and this is just a dream.
Hopefully i'm waking up soon.

sleeping regards
Daniel

I am really very sorry if i am the reason that you are waking up !!!

Sorry,maybe i missed some post about Strelka clone issue but latest days i am too bussy:

-with my Interview about Computerchess:
http://www.satrancokulu.com/content/view/1458/1/

-with my hobby-Racing Pigeons:
http://www.geocities.com/postaguvercinleri/

-with my business:
http://www.atlanta-jewellery.com/

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz

[Daniel Mehrmann]

Hello,

I have no patience for final conclusion from the experts that Strelka 1.8 UCI is clone or not ?!

I am still waiting to start the Strelka test,just becouse my SCCT tournament conditions are:

''All engines must be own original work (its not allowed clones)''

Hurry up guys,the poll expires in 3 Days !!!

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz

oh my godness, ahhhh, now i know i'm sleeping and this is just a dream.
Hopefully i'm waking up soon.

sleeping regards
Daniel

I am really very sorry if i am the reason that you are waking up !!!

Sorry,maybe i missed some post about Strelka clone issue but latest days i am too bussy:

-with my Interview about Computerchess:
http://www.satrancokulu.com/content/view/1458/1/

-with my hobby-Racing Pigeons:
http://www.geocities.com/postaguvercinleri/

-with my business:
http://www.atlanta-jewellery.com/

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz

No problem, you do a nice job anyway.
Wow, you're really a busy men

Best,
Daniel

[Dann Corbit]

Hello,

I have no patience for final conclusion from the experts that Strelka 1.8 UCI is clone or not ?!

I am still waiting to start the Strelka test,just becouse my SCCT tournament conditions are:

''All engines must be own original work (its not allowed clones)''

Hurry up guys,the poll expires in 3 Days !!!

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz

What is *your* definition of a clone?

As far as i know you are expert,maybe you can inform us about clones!

That seems to be a main difficulty in that the definition is mercurial.
My definition would be a program with significant cut and paste of code from another program without extensive modifications to the borrowed code. However, I believe that people disagree as to what cloning is.
The most outrageous sort is where someone takes someone else's program, changes a few strings in it to have their names and titles and then calls the program their own, without giving any credit to the original author. People who do this belong in the hall of shame.
One thing is clear: Strelka has borrowed ideas from other programs.
One thing is not clear: Does the borrowed information constitute cloning.
Without a clear definition of cloning, I do not thing that we can say.
It is up to you to decide if the this borrowed information disqualifies Strelka from your tournaments. I only know about version 1.0b. If you are concerned about the 1.8 version, I cannot guide you in any way.

And one question more:as you expert,is Srelka 1.8 UCI a clone ???

Thanks,
Sedat

I have no idea at all about Strelka 1.8 because it is significantly different from Strelka 1.0b and I have only seen the source of Strelka 1.0b

[Michael Sherwin]

Hello,

I have no patience for final conclusion from the experts that Strelka 1.8 UCI is clone or not ?!

I am still waiting to start the Strelka test,just becouse my SCCT tournament conditions are:

''All engines must be own original work (its not allowed clones)''

Hurry up guys,the poll expires in 3 Days !!!

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz

Strelka is not a clone. It is a carefully derived work of Fruit that was also carefully designed to be like Rybka. Even the 'stolen' tables have been removed and replaced with functionals. It is a Rybka work alike and no more a clone than Rybka is. If two unrelated students go to the same school and learn the identical proceedures and then apply those proceedures in their work, they do not become clones of each other.

[Andrej Sidorov]

Osipov claims that 1.8 has very few differences from 1.0 and that Dann Corbit can get its sources if he want to compare.

[Dann Corbit]

Hello,

I have no patience for final conclusion from the experts that Strelka 1.8 UCI is clone or not ?!

I am still waiting to start the Strelka test,just becouse my SCCT tournament conditions are:

''All engines must be own original work (its not allowed clones)''

Hurry up guys,the poll expires in 3 Days !!!

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz

Strelka is not a clone. It is a carefully derived work of Fruit that was also carefully designed to be like Rybka. Even the 'stolen' tables have been removed and replaced with functionals. It is a Rybka work alike and no more a clone than Rybka is. If two unrelated students go to the same school and learn the identical proceedures and then apply those proceedures in their work, they do not become clones of each other.

I really don't think we know if it is a clone or not, because computer chess has no formal definition of exactly what constitutes a clone and everyone has a different opinion. Whenevery I ask someone to clarify what it means to them, I get back no answer or something very ambiguous.

To me, a clone means:
You took someone elses's program, made a few small tweaks (such as altering string tables or a few small tweaks of the eval) and claimed that you wrote it. This is the common sense of the term, and most of the programs on Ron's list are of this sort. To me, this is a serious crime -- the equivalent of plagiarism.

To me, there is a separate category where you take a bunch of code from another program and, without permission, paste it into your program with very minor tweaks (just enough to get it to work in your program). I am not sure I would call this a clone program, but I would call it stealing.

To me, not a clone means:
You wrote a chess program based on the ideas of other programmers articles, books and programs but did not use their code. Or, if you did use their code you used it with permission.

There is gray area here also. There are some who have taken a very simple program and completely reworked it so that it is no longer recognizable. I know of several instances of this. It the current form, the program does not play like the original at all. What to call it? I'm not sure.

Reverse engineering a commercial chess program is also a grey area to me. I don't particularly like it myself. But if the people who do it are within the law, then who am I to complain?

And an aside:
If GPL software really does work the way that people claim (you enter into a contract not to learn what it does and copy the idea) then I think that GPL is really the worst imaginable software license. If (in the future) it should become clear that it really does work like that then I will no longer work on GPL projects. To me, it would be morally repugnant, similar to software patents. I would (of course) obey any laws relating to GPL software.

[Sedat Canbaz]

If two unrelated students go to the same school and learn the identical proceedures and then apply those proceedures in their work, they do not become clones of each other.

Yes,but there are also a such students which are making copy illegally in the examinations

Best,
Sedat