Strelka 2.0 B running for the IPON ...

[Albert Silver]

In case you wonder why I got the correspondence at all, ...

I dont wonder and I dont mind! Whats left is, that he admits to have taken Fruit. Reading what Fabien has written about Strelka ("... So it was, as has since been stated many times in fora I suppose, a bitboard re-write of Fruit with some personal (or otherwise) ideas.) it seems a correct description of Osipov about Strelka.

Again and a last time: One can moan forever, I am tired of it. The discussion is going on for 2 years+ and most likely it will go on for another 2 years without any outcome as long as no one is going to court. With Fruit/Rybka/Strelka/Littos the pandora is out of the box and will not go back. We (the interested in it) have to live with it or die in agonie. I choose to live on as life goes on.

Bye
Ingo

It seems you didn't bother reading what I wrote. Osipov changed his story and admitted it was a re-write of RYBKA, not Fruit.

[IWB]

It seems you didn't bother reading what I wrote. Osipov changed his story and admitted it was a re-write of RYBKA, not Fruit.

If that is what you wanted to say I really did not get it. Do you have a link for that?

Anyhow, if this would be true and FL sees Fruit in Strelka ...

But, I am tired of this as nothing what we will write will change anything.

Bye
Ingo

[Graham Banks]

It seems you didn't bother reading what I wrote. Osipov changed his story and admitted it was a re-write of RYBKA, not Fruit.

If that is what you wanted to say I really did not get it. Do you have a link for that?

Anyhow, if this would be true and FL sees Fruit in Strelka ...

But, I am tired of this as nothing what we will write will change anything.

Bye
Ingo

Ingo - just out of interest, do you know if Stefan Meyer-Kahlen shares your view on clones/derivatives?

Cheers,
Graham.

[Albert Silver]

It seems you didn't bother reading what I wrote. Osipov changed his story and admitted it was a re-write of RYBKA, not Fruit.

If that is what you wanted to say I really did not get it. Do you have a link for that?

Anyhow, if this would be true and FL sees Fruit in Strelka ...

But, I am tired of this as nothing what we will write will change anything.

Bye
Ingo

I won't publish the private correspondence, however you are welcome to ask ChessOk, or Osipov himself regarding the story. The description of Strelka as a variant of Rybka was Osipov's BTW.

[Xann]

Same problem here in the fora. Endless discussions about coding, moral, node counts or even spaces in engine output ... but to what end? Even the experts do not agree, all this is completely useless for years. The talk here is backwards while it is 100% sure that Pandora will not go back to the box. Is there anyone with a useful proposal how to handle all this in future tourneys. The Littos do not have any copyright notice, everyone if legally free to use use them. I am waiting for the next big tourney where someone is alleged of cloning and he says "Prove it!". How would someone do that without the source of R3 for example.
Ingo

Hi Ingo,

I still have a lot to figure out regarding the current situation.
How about Pandora = the new TSCP (not that we have a choice)?
The one thing I've recently understood is "executable = public domain"?

Fabien.

[Ryan Benitez]

It seems you didn't bother reading what I wrote. Osipov changed his story and admitted it was a re-write of RYBKA, not Fruit.

If that is what you wanted to say I really did not get it. Do you have a link for that?

Anyhow, if this would be true and FL sees Fruit in Strelka ...

But, I am tired of this as nothing what we will write will change anything.

Bye
Ingo

I won't publish the private correspondence, however you are welcome to ask ChessOk, or Osipov himself regarding the story. The description of Strelka as a variant of Rybka was Osipov's BTW.

First about Strelka and Fruit. My care is the GPL and looking at the chess related code I did not find any violations worth reporting to the FSF.

About Strelka and Rybka. Anyone can look into Rybka and pull out the same tables found in Strelka. I do not know the law on this issue and prefer not be part of such a debate.

[Ryan Benitez]

If Strelka is a Fruit derivative, it cannot be a legal one. I needs to be GPLed. To have the source open is not enough...

Miguel

Sure you are 100% right, but again: Even the Fabien is not too much worried about it - why are you? (retorical)

You might stick to your legal aspect but actually to give the engine AND the source and to miss the "GPL" files and to mention where it comes from (what Osipov did in several fora in the past officialy - at least!) seems to be a minor glitch compared to other "infrigements".

BYe
Ingo

I believe that the rights to Fruit were passed to Ryan Benitez. So his opinion is very important here.

Version 2.1 is what would be most likely to be violated and that is owned by the FSF as they can best protect the code. I have reported a GPL violation successfully in the past and the FSF was quick to handle the issue when it was clear. I do not think Strelka is worth reporting to the FSF for Fruit 2.1 violations. The Rybka stuff is another issue and best left to Osipov and Vas to clarify. What engines should be tested by who is an issue that I have no idea on as computer chess has become too gray for me to understand.

Life as I understand it:
Chess - simple
Writing software - less simple
Understanding girlfriend - much less simple
The computer chess community - mind boggling

Ryan

[IWB]

What is of interest if he shares my views? Am I interested if a person you know shares your opinions? I am responsible for myself. Thats it.

Anyhow, basicaly I said that the "genie is out of the bottle" and it is impossible to push it back and that I am sick of discussing endlessly things which are not to change anymore. I do not see what might be so strange with that that any reasonable person can not agree with it.

Bye
Ingo

[Graham Banks]

What is of interest if he shares my views? Am I interested if a person you know shares your opinions? I am responsible for myself. Thats it.

Anyhow, basicaly I said that the "genie is out of the bottle" and it is impossible to push it back and that I am sick of discussing endlessly things which are not to change anymore. I do not see what might be so strange with that that any reasonable person can not agree with it.

Bye
Ingo

I just thought that you were part of the Shredder team. Please excuse me if I'm wrong about that.

Cheers,
Graham.

[IWB]

???

What are you talking about?

Because I am part of a Team I am not allowed to have an opinion on the current situation regarding Fruit/Strelka/Rybka?

Sorry but I do not see any relevance in your questioning.

Bye
Ingo