Who will win the Duel: Crafty or Stockfish?

[Sedat Canbaz]

Test 2: Stockfish wins again the Duel !!
Even with Ponder Off, even with Both Sides and even with 1m+1s !

A little note: Stockfish 's opponent (Crafty) is played with 30m+1s

Congrats again to Stockfish's Author !

Note: I urgently wait for your opinions

This time,
Is there a something wrong in my used conditions ?

In my previous match...ponder on ponder on ponder on etc...

What will say now dear experts ??? )))

[pgn][Event "Crafty 30m+1s vs Stockfish 1m+1s"]
[Site "Antalya/Turkey"]
[Date "2014.10.23"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Crafty 24.1 x64"]
[Black "Stockfish 151014 x64"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C90"]
[Annotator "Crafty 24.1"]
[PlyCount "108"]
[TimeControl "60+1"]

{512MB, Perfect2015.ctg, pc12} 1. e4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} e5 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:
00:00]} 2. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:20]} Nc6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 3. Bb5 {[%emt
0:00:08]} a6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 4. Ba4 {[%emt 0:00:03]} Nf6 {[%eval
0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 5. O-O {[%emt 0:00:04]} Be7 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]}
6. Re1 {[%emt 0:00:03]} b5 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 7. Bb3 {[%emt 0:00:06]}
d6 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 8. Nc3 {[%emt 0:01:14]} Na5 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt
0:00:00]} 9. d4 {[%emt 0:00:54]} exd4 {[%eval 8,19] [%emt 0:00:02]} 10. Nd5 {
[%emt 0:01:12]} Nxd5 {[%eval 13,19] [%emt 0:00:02]} 11. exd5 {[%emt 0:00:44]}
O-O {[%eval 8,21] [%emt 0:00:01]} 12. Nxd4 {[%emt 0:00:45]} Bb7 {[%eval -7,18]
[%emt 0:00:02]} 13. c3 {[%emt 0:01:47]} Bf6 {[%eval -11,18] [%emt 0:00:02]} 14.
Bc2 {[%emt 0:00:42]} Re8 {[%eval -28,18] [%emt 0:00:03]} 15. Rxe8+ {[%emt 0:01:
09]} Qxe8 {[%eval -33,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 16. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:38]} Nc4 {[%eval
-19,20] [%emt 0:00:02]} 17. Qd3 {[%emt 0:00:37]} g6 {[%eval -27,21] [%emt 0:00:
03]} 18. Bb3 {[%emt 0:00:38]} Bg7 {[%eval -27,22] [%emt 0:00:03]} 19. Bd2 {
[%emt 0:01:18]} Nxd2 {[%eval -34,23] [%emt 0:00:04]} 20. Qxd2 {[%emt 0:00:35]}
a5 {[%eval -12,22] [%emt 0:00:02]} 21. a4 {[%emt 0:00:35]} Rb8 {[%eval -26,22]
[%emt 0:00:02]} 22. h4 {[%emt 0:01:58]} Ba6 {[%eval -30,20] [%emt 0:00:04]} 23.
Re1 {[%emt 0:00:51]} Qd7 {[%eval -44,20] [%emt 0:00:03]} 24. Qe2 {[%emt 0:00:
34]} Qc8 {[%eval -67,19] [%emt 0:00:02]} 25. axb5 {[%emt 0:00:29]} Bxb5 {
[%eval -71,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} 26. Qd2 {[%emt 0:00:32]} Qb7 {[%eval -56,21]
[%emt 0:00:07]} 27. h5 {[%emt 0:00:30]} Bd7 {[%eval -72,19] [%emt 0:00:02]} 28.
Bc2 {[%emt 0:01:05]} Qxb2 {[%eval 0,19] [%emt 0:00:02]} 29. Rb1 {[%emt 0:00:30]
} Qxb1+ {[%eval 0,22] [%emt 0:00:01]} 30. Bxb1 {[%emt 0:00:25]} Rxb1+ {[%eval
0,23] [%emt 0:00:01]} 31. Kh2 {[%emt 0:00:26]} Rb8 {[%eval 0,24] [%emt 0:00:04]
} 32. Qe3 {[%emt 0:00:40]} Rc8 {[%eval 0,25] [%emt 0:00:01]} 33. Ng5 {[%emt 0:
00:24]} Bf6 {[%eval 0,25] [%emt 0:00:02]} 34. Ne4 {[%emt 0:00:24]} Bh8 {[%eval
0,26] [%emt 0:00:01]} 35. Qg5 {[%emt 0:00:25]} Re8 {[%eval 0,25] [%emt 0:00:06]
} 36. Nf6+ {[%emt 0:00:26]} Bxf6 {[%eval 0,27] [%emt 0:00:01]} 37. Qxf6 {[%emt
0:00:00]} gxh5 {[%eval 0,27] [%emt 0:00:01]} 38. Qg5+ {[%emt 0:00:37]} Kf8 {
[%eval 0,29] [%emt 0:00:01]} 39. Qxh5 {[%emt 0:00:22]} a4 {[%eval 0,30] [%emt
0:00:01]} 40. Qxh7 {[%emt 0:00:22]} a3 {[%eval 0,31] [%emt 0:00:01]} 41. Qh8+ {
[%emt 0:00:24]} Ke7 {[%eval -105,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} 42. Qd4 {[%emt 0:00:21]}
Ra8 {[%eval -48,22] [%emt 0:00:02]} 43. Qh4+ {[%emt 0:00:28]} f6 {[%eval -50,
24] [%emt 0:00:06]} 44. Qh7+ {[%emt 0:00:27]} Kd8 {[%eval -50,25] [%emt 0:00:
01]} 45. Qh8+ {[%emt 0:00:27]} Be8 {[%eval -50,25] [%emt 0:00:01]} 46. Qxf6+ {
[%emt 0:00:19]} Kc8 {[%eval -56,25] [%emt 0:00:01]} 47. Qf5+ {[%emt 0:00:34]}
Bd7 {[%eval -131,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} 48. Qb1 {[%emt 0:00:19]} a2 {[%eval -139,
23] [%emt 0:00:01]} 49. Qa1 {[%emt 0:00:16]} Bf5 {[%eval -151,22] [%emt 0:00:
01]} 50. c4 {[%emt 0:16:50]} Ra5 {[%eval -165,22] [%emt 0:00:04]} 51. f4 {
[%emt 0:00:39]} Bd3 {[%eval -186,22] [%emt 0:00:01]} 52. c5 {[%emt 0:00:36]}
dxc5 {[%eval -284,19] [%emt 0:00:03]} 53. d6 {[%emt 0:01:23]} cxd6 {[%eval
-432,19] [%emt 0:00:01]} 54. g3 {[%emt 0:00:35]} Bc4 {[%eval -612,18] [%emt 0:
00:01]} 0-1[/pgn]

[Sedat Canbaz]

BTW,

Really without to not mention this I can't,
*Almost each of my chess activity is criticized
-Some people are not happy with chess benchmarks
-Some are comparing me with TCEC, I dont know really why ?)
-Some are not happy with my used openings
*I can prove it again about my lines are drawish or loosing or winning...
*All this issue can be checked very easy:
-I still keep Perfect 16 book, would you like to challenge me ?)
-Some are not happy with my used rule over tournaments
-Some are trying to hack my web sites
etc and etc...

And what I noticed,
Nobody can say simply (exception Alan): 'thanks' or congratulations to Stockfish's Author
Yes...to do such thing..requires to have BIG heart, and it seems many don't have it...

And to stop all this injustices,
I should retire from computer chess, there is no other way...

Sad but true...

[Adam Hair]

BTW,

Really without to not mention this I can't,
*Almost each of my chess activity is criticized
-Some people are not happy with chess benchmarks
-Some are comparing me with TCEC, I dont know really why ?)
-Some are not happy with my used openings
*I can prove it again about my lines are drawish or loosing or winning...
*All this issue can be checked very easy:
-I still keep Perfect 16 book, would you like to challenge me ?)
-Some are not happy with my used rule over tournaments
-Some are trying to hack my web sites
etc and etc...

And what I noticed,
Nobody can say simply (exception Alan): 'thanks' or congratulations to Stockfish's Author
Yes...to do such thing..requires to have BIG heart, and it seems many don't have it...

And to stop all this injustices,
I should retire from computer chess, there is no other way...

Sad but true...

Sedat,

I hope that you understand that, if I voice a criticism or a disagreement with a particular statement of yours, it is done without any malice intended towards you. I respect and admire the contributions you have made to this hobby of ours, and I have no desire to see you leave computer chess.

I consider you to be an influential man in the computer chess community. And that is the reason why I sometimes voice my disagreement with you. If I think you are not correct in one of your posts, then I feel the need to state why I think you are wrong. I want anyone who reads the CCC forums to get correct information. And if it is me who is wrong, then I desire to be corrected.

Adam

PS
I am certain that Uri has no malice for you either.

[Sedat Canbaz]

Dear Adam,

To be honest,
I like critics ...believe me in this way I work harder...
That's why many thanks to all (including you), who love to criticize my works !

Sometimes I am wondering,
Which of my chess activities I should cancel...not sure exactly

Perhaps nowadays I will not retire, but definitely I should drop my tempo...

Maybe its time to stop working over my chess benchmarks...
At least many people will be happy, right ?)

Or maybe its time to stop to release my opening books
As you know, my used opening lines are too drawish...
That's why it sounds not bad, if, right ?

About the current duel,
Let me say this wise saying:
“Don't criticize what you can't understand.”
- Bob Dylan

Really I am not joking...
Because, such testing has never done before, correct me please If I am wrong ?
This is a very new testing...the first time I've ever seen...and again by SCCT ))

More details about adapting the time control on same hardware,
So, we should not mix apples with oranges...
You or me or anybody...can be mistaken with arranging the time controls on same hardware
Because STILL we don't know exactly how much is the Elo difference...
Crafty 1 core maybe even can gain approx. 30 Elo at Slow and approx. 40 Elo at Blitz...
I mean, in case of doubling the time controls on same hardware

About pondering,
During Crafty 60m+15s vs Stockfish 3m+2s duel,
I can confirm especially for the 1st game, which is ended in 24 moves,
Pondering did not make a role...pondering is useful, if the moves are recognized

Plus as far as I remember about 1st game,
2 or 3 moves were recognized by Stockfish..., and those recognized 2-3 moves were in the end of game... I mean it was too late to say as advantage
And that's why the game is ended too shortly...

Btw, I don't know how much you are experienced with pondering...,
But I can say for SCCT:
- Since many years I run thousands Blitz/Slow Ponder ON games, maybe passed 300.000 Ponder ON games

Continuing...

We noticed also that,
Test 1: Stockfish 3m+2s is stronger than Crafty 60m+15s
Test 2: Stockfish 1m+1s is stronger than Crafty 30m+1s
Probably Crafty 60m+1s will be equal in near Elo strength as Stockfish 1m+1s

And here are some more calculations:

1)In case of doubling the processor speed:
-Average 80 Elo seems to be safe (up to 6 cores)

2)In case of doubling MP threads (cores):
-Average 30 Elo per 1 core seems to be safe (up to 4 cores)

3)In case of doubling the time control on same hardware:
-Average 40 Elo seems to be safe ( per one core)

*Note: Finely I manage to set properly Auto232 mode on my current machine
So...currently I am testing:
Rybka 7m+1s vs Stockfish 1m+1s
Rybka 15m+1s vs Stockfish 1m+1s

I plan to publish the results very soon

And last,
My work is not perfect...but I am doing my best for Computer Chess's progress
Many people even can not dream...the efforts which I've spent...

Hopes helps...


Best,
Sedat

[Sedat Canbaz]

Btw,
This should be known too !

Next time I will give you a BIG lupe,
It will be easier to find holes in my works...))!!


Continuing...

Do you know the importance of my current test ?
I hardly doubt that mostly of the chess friends have no clue about for what I am talking...

Ok...I will try to help and explain,
The current my test shows a little bit the strength between Blitz and Slow time control
This test is really very important...And I hope you started to see it too
Or are you still on pondering issue )) ???

Plus as far as I know: a such test never done before...
And next time: don't forget to say thanks )))

I should point out this too, my new idea is born after reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_chess

"Playing rapid chess, one can lose the habit of concentrating for several hours in serious chess.
That is why, if a player has big aims, he should limit his rapidplay in favour of serious chess." – Vladimir Kramnik[31]

"Yes, I have played a blitz game once. It was on a train, in 1929." – Mikhail Botvinnik[31]

"He who analyses blitz is stupid." – Rashid Nezhmetdinov[31]

"Blitz chess kills your ideas." – Bobby Fischer[31]

"To be honest, I consider [bullet chess] a bit moronic, and therefore I never play it." – Vladimir Kramnik[32]

"Blitz – it's just a pleasure." – Vladimir Kramnik[33]

"I play way too much blitz chess. It rots the brain just as surely as alcohol." – Nigel Short[34]

"Blitz is simply a waste of time." – Vladimir Malakhov[35]

Of course,
The above critics by the great chess players were meaning about human blitz games...

And I am quite sure in that,
GMs will have different views regarding Blitz played by the Top chess engines ))!!

I shortly, for a better conclusion, we need more data...
But however...I started to believe in that (for under the current my used conditions),
In case of doubling the time control on same hardware, most top engines are expecting to be performed average 40 Elo

At least my current testings (Rybka vs Stokfish) confirm this....

Btw, a little note more:
Stockfish 1core at 3min+2sec is stronger than all Top GMs at 60m+15sec, just saying...)!

Hopes helps this too


Best,
Sedat