Zenmastur vs Ovyron No it's not another GROB!

[zullil]

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 d6 4. d4 g5 5.h4

[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp2p1p/3p4/6p1/3PPp1P/5N2/PPP3P1/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 5

Bravo! Eschewing Stockfish's line, and preparing to really stress your opponent's resources.

[drewdrew]

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 d6 4. d4 g5 5.h4

[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp2p1p/3p4/6p1/3PPp1P/5N2/PPP3P1/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 5

Bravo! Eschewing Stockfish's line, and preparing to really stress your opponent's resources.

FWIW, 5. h4 was also the choice of lc0-384x30-t60-3070.

[Zenmastur]

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 d6 4. d4 g5 5.h4

[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp2p1p/3p4/6p1/3PPp1P/5N2/PPP3P1/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 5

Bravo! Eschewing Stockfish's line, and preparing to really stress your opponent's resources.

Actually this is a Stockfish line. It's just came from very deep analysis, but I'm not saying how deep.

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 d6 4. d4 g5 5.h4

[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp2p1p/3p4/6p1/3PPp1P/5N2/PPP3P1/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 5

Bravo! Eschewing Stockfish's line, and preparing to really stress your opponent's resources.

FWIW, 5. h4 was also the choice of lc0-384x30-t60-3070.

I gave up on Lc0 for positions like this. It might find the right move and it might not. My analysis starting after the move 3. .. d6 goes all the way to the "virtual" end of the game. i.e. a solvable endgame. I double and triple checked it and produced a multi-PV output for EVERY black decision point from 3. .. d6 to the critical position and slightly beyond. So, if he varies even a little bit from the "main-line", I will know immediately. And if the move is a top-3 move I already have a response worked out for it. If it's not in the top three the chances are he is in real trouble!

So, the boring part begins. I just have to sit and wait for him to play his moves and check them against my main-line.

Regards,

Zenmastur

[Zenmastur]

In the meantime, I'm making a King's Gambit opening book. I'm methodically going thru every major line and doing deep analysis on it. I've done a dozen lines or so since this game started. In actual fact, I had already done the Fischer defence before he played 3. .. d6. When I saw him play it, I went back to my analysis and extended it right to the end.

So far, many of the older lines are broken. Stockfish is "busting" a lot of the lines thought to be good or very good for black. I haven't found any lines that are "worse" for white than previously thought. Most are better than their reputation to this point. I finally worked out a way to mass analyze the positions "AFTER" I've done my own analysis on it and an easy way to get it into a human readable format. i.e. so it can be referenced/copied during game analysis. The last part is making a dot.bin book so a GUI can reference/use it as well. As a side benefit I'm getting opening fragments for use in engine matches. I hate using FENs as the software I use can't perform certain functions on a game THAT STARTS FROM A NON-STANDARD POSITION. It's really irritating but now I have a work-around.

I plan on using the rest of the time this game takes to work on this project.

Regards,

Zenmastur

[Ovyron]

Well, let's hope those top moves are fun to find

I'd be more interested in your opinion about 3...d6, how does it rank compared to the others and such.

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 d6 4. d4 g5 5. h4 g4

[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp2p1p/3p4/8/3PPppP/5N2/PPP3P1/RNBQKB1R w KQkq -

[Zenmastur]

This is a list of the opening lines I had originally planned to cover:

Code: Select all

1.e4 e5 2.f4 a6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bb4
1.e4 e5 2.f4 b6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 c5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nc3
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 Nc6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.b4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.c3 Qe7
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.c3 f5 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.c3 f5 5.fxe5 dxe5 6.d4 fxe4 7.Bc4
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.c3 Bg4 5.fxe5 dxe5 6.Qa4+ 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.Bb5 Bd7
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.Bb5 Nf6 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.Nc3 Nd7 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Bc4 Nc6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Bc4 Nc6 6.d3 a6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Bc4 Nc6 6.d3 Bg4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Bc4 Nc6 6.d3 Bg4 7.h3 Bxf3 8.Qxf3 exf4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Bc4 Nc6 6.fxe5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.Bc4
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.fxe5 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 g5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 c6 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Nc6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Nc6 3.Nf3 f5 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.d4
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bd6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Be7
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Ne7
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Qe7
1.e4 e5 2.f4 f5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 f6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 f6 3.fxe5 Nc6 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Nf6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Qf6 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Qf6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Bc4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Qf6 3.Nc3 Qxf4 4.d4
1.e4 e5 2.f4 g5 – 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Nc6 3.Nf3
1.e4 e5 2.f4 g6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Qh4+
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Qh4+ 3.g3 Qe7
1.e4 e5 2.f4 h5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 Nh6

1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.Nc3
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.d4
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 Bc5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 e4 4.Bb5+ 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 e4 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Qe2 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 e4 4.d3 Nf6 5.Nc3 Bb4 6.Bd2 e3 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 e4 4.d3 Nf6 5.Nd2 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 e4 4.d3 Nf6 5.Qe2 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 e4 4.d3 Nf6 5.dxe4 Nxe4 6.Qe2 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 e4 4.d3 Nf6 5.dxe4 Nxe4 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qe2 Bf2+ 8.Kd1 Qxd5+ 9.Nfd2 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 e4 4.d3 Nf6 5.dxe4 Nxe4 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qe2 Bf5 8.g4 O-O
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 c6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 c6 4.dxc6 Bc5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 exf4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 exf4 4.Nf3 Bd6 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.b3 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bb5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nc3 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nc3 Qh4+
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.d3
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bd3
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.d4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Be2
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Be2 f5 4.exf5 d6 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Ne2 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Qe2
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.e5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Kf2
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Qf3
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.g3
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Qg4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nh3 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.h4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Qh5 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Bb4
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 b6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 c5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Bc5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 c6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nc6 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d5 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d5 4.exd5 Qxd5 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d5 4.exd5 Nf6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d5 4.exd5 Nf6 5.Bb5+ c6 6.dxc6 bxc6 7.Bc4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d6 4.Bc4
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d6 4.d3
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d6 4.d4
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d6 4.b4
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Bd6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Be7
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Be7 4.Bc4 Nf6 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Be7 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.e5 Ng4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Be7 4.Bc4 Bh4+ 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Be7 4.Bc4 Bh4+ 5.g3 fxg3 6.O-O gxh2+ 7.Kh1 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Ne7 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Qe7 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 f5 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 f6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e5 Ne4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e5 Nh5 5.g4
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 h5 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 h6 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nh6 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Nc3
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 Nc6 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 d6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.Nc3
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.d4 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.d4 gxf3 6.Qxf3 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.d4 gxf3 6.Bxf4 

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.Ne5 
4.Bc4 g4 5.Ne5 Qh4+ 6.Kf1 f3
4.Bc4 g4 5.Ne5 Qh4+ 6.Kf1 Nc6 
4.Bc4 g4 5.Ne5 Qh4+ 6.Kf1 Nf6
4.Bc4 g4 5.Ne5 Qh4+ 6.Kf1 Nh6 
4.Bc4 g4 5.Ne5 Qh4+ 6.Kf1 Nh6 7.d4 d6

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O 
4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O d5 
4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O Qe7 
4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O gxf3 6.Qxf3 
4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O gxf3 6.Qxf3 Nc6 
4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O gxf3 6.Qxf3 Qe7
4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O gxf3 6.Qxf3 Qf6 
4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O gxf3 6.Qxf3 Qf6 7.Nc3 
4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O gxf3 6.Qxf3 Qf6 7.Nc3 Qd4+ 8.Kh1 Qxc4 9.Nd5
4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O gxf3 6.Qxf3 Qf6 7.e5 Qxe5 8.b3 
4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O gxf3 6.Qxf3 Qf6 7.e5 Qxe5 8.d3 Bh6 9.Nc3 Ne7 10.Bd2 
4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O gxf3 6.Qxf3 Qf6 7.e5 Qxe5 8.Bxf7+ 
4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O gxf3 6.Qxf3 Qf6 7.Bxf7+ Kxf7 8.d4 Qxd4+ 9.Be3 Qf6 
4.Bc4 g4 5.Bxf7+ 
4.Bc4 g4 5.Bxf7+ Kxf7 6.O-O gxf3 7.Qxf3 Qf6 8.d4 Qxd4+ 9.Be3 
4.Bc4 g4 5.h4 
4.Bc4 Bg7 
4.Bc4 Bg7 5.d4 d6 6.c3 
4.Bc4 Bg7 5.O-O
4.Bc4 Bg7 5.O-O Bg4 6.h3 h5 7.hxg4 
4.Bc4 Bg7 5.h4 
4.Bc4 Bg7 5.h4 h6 6.d4 d6 
4.Bc4 Bg7 5.h4 h6 6.d4 d6 7.c3
4.Bc4 Bg7 5.h4 h6 6.d4 d6 7.Nc3
4.Bc4 Bg7 5.h4 h6 6.d4 d6 7.Qd3 
4.Bc4 Bg7 5.h4 h6 6.d4 d6 7.hxg5 hxg5 8.Rxh8 Rxh8 9.Nc3

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.d4
4.d4 g4 5.Ne5 
4.d4 g4 5.Ne5 Qh4+ 6.g3 
4.d4 g4 5.Bxf4
 
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nc6 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 d5 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 d5 6.d4 Nf6 7.exd5 Qxd5 8.Bc3 Bb4 9.Kf2 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 d5 6.d4 Nf6 7.Bxf4 Nxe4 8.Nd2 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 d6 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Be7 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Qe7 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Qe7 6.d4 f5 7.Bc4 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Bc4 d5 7.exd5 Bd6 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Bc4 d5 7.exd5 Bd6 8.d4 Nh5 9.Bxf4 Nxf4 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Bc4 d5 7.exd5 Bd6 8.O-O 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Bc4 d5 7.exd5 Bd6 Bg7 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Bc4 Qe7 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.d4 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Nxg4 d5 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Bg7 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Bg7 6.Nxg4 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 h5 
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 h5 6.Bc4 Rh7 7.d4 Bh6 8.Nc3
4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 h6 6.Nxf7 

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ng5 
4.h4 g4 5.Ng5 d5 
4.h4 g4 5.Ng5 Nf6 
4.h4 g4 5.Ng5 h6 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Nc3 
4.h4 g4 5.Ng5 h6 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Bc4+ 
4.h4 g4 5.Ng5 h6 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Bc4+ d5 8.Bxd5+ Kg7 9.d4 
4.h4 g4 5.Ng5 h6 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.d4 
4.h4 g4 5.Ng5 h6 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.d4 d5 8.Bxf4 dxe4 9.Bc4+ Kg7 10.Be5+ 
4.h4 g4 5.Ng5 h6 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qxg4 Nf6 8.Qxf4 

I found this list on the web. I believe the author is Bill Wall.

Many of these lines aren't playable so the analysis of them won't take long. They simply lose for one side or the other. I'm already finding that lines not detailed in this list ARE playable and I'm adding these as I find them. Although, I haven't updated this list yet. Some of them are complicated enough or have enough sub-variations that they deserve their own line.

Regards,

Zenmastur

[Ovyron]

I had expected that you'd make your move in that post, since I thought you said you'd be moving immediately.

[Zenmastur]

Well, let's hope those top moves are fun to find

I'd be more interested in your opinion about 3...d6, how does it rank compared to the others and such.

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 d6 4. d4 g5 5. h4 g4

[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp2p1p/3p4/8/3PPppP/5N2/PPP3P1/RNBQKB1R w KQkq -

Probably better to ask when I'm a little further along. I'm dong the KGA first so depending on how long this game lasts I should have a better idea by then. There are a lot of lines. Some analyze pretty quickly. Others, not so much. I did 1 "old" and 2 of 3 "new" lines yesterday. The "new" lines I found the day before. My comp is busy right now and I don't want to interrupt it. As soon as it's free I'll make my move.

Regards,

Zenmastur

[Ovyron]

No problem, I'm playing 18 other games concurrent to this one, so I know what being busy is like

[zullil]

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 d6 4. d4 g5 5.h4

[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp2p1p/3p4/6p1/3PPp1P/5N2/PPP3P1/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 5

Bravo! Eschewing Stockfish's line, and preparing to really stress your opponent's resources.

Actually this is a Stockfish line. It's just came from very deep analysis, but I'm not saying how deep.


Regards,

Zenmastur

Interesting. Unguided Stockfish-dev at depth 68 preferred another move, by a margin of about 25 cp. Of course, one shouldn't ascribe too much significance to small differences in evaluations.