Fide equivalent "slow blitz" rating list

[lkaufman]

Thanks, now at least I can find engines in messchess, but when I try to install them in CuteChess using settings, engines, +, and browse, I can call up the engine with "Advanced", but it doesn't install.

Do you use any startposition or openingbook in CuteChess? These engines can't be used with any book I think.

I didn't do anything in the advanced tab.
Here is all I set for Saitek Mini Chess:

Name: Saitek Mini Chess
Command: MessChess smchess
Working Directory: C:\Engines\CB-Emu\MessChess
Protocol: uci

My thinking is that you try to do what I would do to callibrate elo levels.

1. Get the Elo steps to work like Mr. Elö wanted it to work. A sofisticated method to arrange players where you could predict a score between two player instead of a standard numbering 1., 2., 3., etc.

2. When 1. is correct then callibrate this list with some known rated player(s). If Mr. Elö was correct it should be enough to use only one player, but we aren't alike so you probably need a few players. The scaling should be linear.

For 1. you need a wide range of engines, its rating isn't important, but they should be in all rating range you want to callibrate. I would not use selfplay for this, but let Dragon play gauntlet against a suitable group on for each level. This group should overlap. Ex. for Dragon 1500, the group should be in the range 1300-1700 etc. When using selfplay would probably have more or less the same knowlede missing, but in real life people have different knowledge even if they are rated the same.

For 2. the best would be to have a group of human players with known Elo that would play against it in controlled form. Maybe you could use a few engines for this too.

Is I into something? Is this what your goal is?

For me 2. isn't important at all, there are allready so many ratinglist out there and chessplayers are used to talk about Lichess rating, Chess.com rating, Fide rating etc.. I started allready with Chessmaster to call it CM Elo so a Dragon Elo is just an addition to the list.
One problem is that in GUI's there are usually few methods to handle different engines with different scaling. But this is a GUI problem and not an engine problem.
In Aquarium I have definded many users for me: oddg Dragon Blitz, oddg Dragon Rapid, oddg Dragon classical, oddg Shashin blitz ....
Then I can see my progress without bother with how different engines scale.

You have basically just described what I am already doing. So far, I've just played each dragon elo level (multiples of 100 only) against two or three engines on my list, and each engine against two or three dragon levels, enough to generate a consistent rating list, though not as accurate as it would be with more engines per level and more levels per engine. Regarding point 2, so far I only have statistically significant human data on one engine, Safrad 2.2, which is therefore serving as the reference point for the list. It would indeed be nice to have several such engines covering a wide range. I agree that the reference rating isn't important for self-improvement; it is important only for estimating what rating one might earn in serious human FIDE-rated competition. It's just nice to have one standard, so when we say someone is an 1800 elo player, we mean 1800 FIDE and not 1800 CCRL or Lichess or whatever. Even that appears to be a variable standard; based on studies of human moves compared to engines, a 2300 player today is like a 2400 player of twenty years ago; the whole scale has gotten about a hundred elo tougher. But at least 1800 FIDE (for example) has a fairly uniform meaning everywhere today. Regarding the emulator, it seems I am missing one step in how to make a particular engine (like smchess in your example) into a working engine so that the command line you give will work.

[Guenther]

I downloaded monchester windows haswell compile, but it won't install as an engine in Cutechess. Don't know why.

It is xboard...

Thanks. Can you suggest any engine of around that level that will work properly in CuteChess?

What exactly does 'not work' with Monchester?

I have played surely hundreds of games with it in the CuteChessGui. (What version BTW?)
If you had checked my first post you would have also seen that CCRL has tested it with over 700 games.

Yesterday I played it again vs. a newer compilation of a dev branch which should have become 1.0.2
but wasn't finished. Zero problems. No time losses no crashes all games finished regularily.

Code: Select all

RWBC-CAPPUCCINO Win7U64 Q8200 2.33Ghz + Nvidia GT 710, 2022.01.04
                           Score     12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890                                                  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: Monchester_10118-64  67.0 / 100   1111=0110=111111=111===111011=11=011111=1010=1=11111111==01=11000=01=0=010101=1101=0101=1=10=11=0=10  (+55 -21 =24)
 2: Monchester_10-64     33.0 / 100   0000=1001=000000=000===000100=00=100000=0101=0=00000000==10=00111=10=1=101010=0010=1010=0=01=00=1=01  (+21 -55 =24)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It also has the advantage that it plays at fixed depth (4 except compiled for other depth) and therefore is hardware independent for comparing
to its strength related to lichess unlike Safrad2, which plays on a very fast hardware at lichess and a big book too it seems.

I lost several games to Safrad2, instead I never will lose to Monchester with my lichess rating of 2150-2200.
And this is ofc in fast Blitz, I never use inc, those games were always 3/0 and here Safrad2 must be much
much stronger. 3/0 also is the most played tc at lichess anyway (forced by cheaters too - it makes finding
them easier, even super GMs have an error rate far above middle range engines at something like 3/0)

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "RWBC-CAPPUCCINO Win7U64 Q8200 2.33Ghz + Nvidia GT 710"]
[Date "2022.01.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Guenther Simon"]
[Black "Monchester_10118-64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D10"]
[GameDuration "00:01:21"]
[GameEndTime "2022-01-04T13:20:31.137 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[GameStartTime "2022-01-04T13:19:09.644 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[Opening "QGD Slav defense"]
[PlyCount "57"]
[TimeControl "180"]

1. d4 {book} d5 {book} 2. c4 {book} c6 {book} 3. Nc3 {book} Nf6 {book} 4. Nf3
dxc4 {-0.02/4 0.40s} 5. e3 {0.85s} Bg4 {+1.31/4 0.46s} 6. Bxc4 {1.66s}
e6 {+1.25/4 0.67s} 7. h3 {1.51s} Bxf3 {+0.82/4 0.82s} 8. Qxf3 {1.15s}
Bb4 {+1.25/4 0.77s} 9. O-O {3.77s} Bxc3 {+2.34/4 0.68s} 10. bxc3 {0.87s}
Ng8 {+2.42/4 0.41s} 11. e4 {1.21s} Nd7 {+2.54/4 0.45s} 12. Ba3 {2.68s}
Qf6 {+2.68/4 0.52s} 13. Qe2 {1.98s} b5 {+2.77/4 0.55s} 14. Bd3 {2.07s}
Qh6 {+2.71/4 0.46s} 15. c4 {4.90s} bxc4 {+2.91/4 0.47s} 16. Bxc4 {0.78s}
Qg5 {+2.82/4 0.50s} 17. f4 {4.11s} Qh4 {+2.80/4 0.81s} 18. d5 {5.27s}
exd5 {+2.77/4 0.69s} 19. exd5+ {3.02s} Kd8 {+1.57/4 0.078s} 20. dxc6 {4.93s}
Nb6 {+0.68/4 0.60s} 21. Rad1+ {1.90s} Kc7 {-6.65/4 0.075s} 22. Qe5+ {3.80s}
Kxc6 {-39.20/4 0.053s} 23. Qd6+ {8.52s} Kb7 {-7.00/4 0.020s} 24. Bd5+ {3.52s}
Nxd5 {-23.65/4 0.045s} 25. Qxd5+ {0.63s} Kc7 {-33.17/4 0.067s} 26. Rc1+ {4.08s}
Kb6 {-M4/4 0.033s} 27. Qc5+ {2.14s} Ka6 {-M4/4 0.026s} 28. Qc6+ {2.84s}
Ka5 {-M2/2 0.016s} 29. Rc5# {1.83s, White mates} 1-0

[Event "?"]
[Site "RWBC-CAPPUCCINO Win7U64 Q8200 2.33Ghz + Nvidia GT 710"]
[Date "2022.01.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Monchester_10118-64"]
[Black "Guenther Simon"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A20"]
[GameDuration "00:01:34"]
[GameEndTime "2022-01-04T13:23:02.553 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[GameStartTime "2022-01-04T13:21:27.703 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[Opening "English Opening"]
[PlyCount "54"]
[TimeControl "180"]

1. c4 {book} e5 {book} 2. g3 {book} Nc6 {book} 3. Bg2 {book} Bc5 {book}
4. Bxc6 {+1.08/4 0.23s} bxc6 {3.75s} 5. Qc2 {+0.91/4 0.12s} Nf6 {2.73s}
6. Qf5 {+0.85/4 0.19s} d6 {1.90s} 7. Qf3 {+0.91/4 0.27s} O-O {2.59s}
8. Qxc6 {+1.85/4 0.21s} Rb8 {9.46s} 9. Qg2 {+1.45/4 0.35s} e4 {2.54s}
10. e3 {+1.65/4 0.17s} Re8 {2.51s} 11. Nc3 {+1.68/4 0.20s} c6 {3.24s}
12. h4 {+1.68/4 0.31s} d5 {1.49s} 13. cxd5 {+1.88/4 0.44s} cxd5 {0.57s}
14. Qf1 {+1.71/4 0.39s} d4 {1.03s} 15. exd4 {+1.57/4 0.45s} Bxd4 {0.58s}
16. Nce2 {+1.20/4 0.43s} Bb6 {3.84s} 17. Qg2 {-4.91/4 0.18s} Bb7 {1.80s}
18. b3 {+1.31/4 0.23s} e3 {0.91s} 19. f3 {-7.14/4 0.41s} exd2+ {9.40s}
20. Bxd2 {-8.48/4 0.041s} Qd3 {12.47s} 21. Kd1 {-7.08/4 0.59s} Rbc8 {2.72s}
22. Ke1 {-8.51/4 0.49s} Rc2 {2.41s} 23. Bb4 {-8.85/4 0.73s} Bxg1 {8.27s}
24. Kf1 {-33.82/4 0.70s} Rexe2 {6.27s} 25. Bd2 {-67.40/4 0.73s} Rcxd2 {1.46s}
26. Rc1 {-M4/4 0.32s} Rf2+ {3.12s} 27. Ke1 {-M2/2 0.037s}
Qe2# {1.54s, Black mates} 0-1[/pgn]

[Chessqueen]

I downloaded monchester windows haswell compile, but it won't install as an engine in Cutechess. Don't know why.

It is xboard...

Thanks. Can you suggest any engine of around that level that will work properly in CuteChess?

What exactly does 'not work' with Monchester?

I have played surely hundreds of games with it in the CuteChessGui. (What version BTW?)
If you had checked my first post you would have also seen that CCRL has tested it with over 700 games.

Yesterday I played it again vs. a newer compilation of a dev branch which should have become 1.0.2
but wasn't finished. Zero problems. No time losses no crashes all games finished regularily.

Code: Select all

RWBC-CAPPUCCINO Win7U64 Q8200 2.33Ghz + Nvidia GT 710, 2022.01.04
                           Score     12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890                                                  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: Monchester_10118-64  67.0 / 100   1111=0110=111111=111===111011=11=011111=1010=1=11111111==01=11000=01=0=010101=1101=0101=1=10=11=0=10  (+55 -21 =24)
 2: Monchester_10-64     33.0 / 100   0000=1001=000000=000===000100=00=100000=0101=0=00000000==10=00111=10=1=101010=0010=1010=0=01=00=1=01  (+21 -55 =24)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It also has the advantage that it plays at fixed depth (4 except compiled for other depth) and therefore is hardware independent for comparing
to its strength related to lichess unlike Safrad2, which plays on a very fast hardware at lichess and a big book too it seems.

I lost several games to Safrad2, instead I never will lose to Monchester with my lichess rating of 2150-2200.
And this is ofc in fast Blitz, I never use inc, those games were always 3/0 and here Safrad2 must be much
much stronger. 3/0 also is the most played tc at lichess anyway (forced by cheaters too - it makes finding
them easier, even super GMs have an error rate far above middle range engines at something like 3/0)

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "RWBC-CAPPUCCINO Win7U64 Q8200 2.33Ghz + Nvidia GT 710"]
[Date "2022.01.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Guenther Simon"]
[Black "Monchester_10118-64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D10"]
[GameDuration "00:01:21"]
[GameEndTime "2022-01-04T13:20:31.137 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[GameStartTime "2022-01-04T13:19:09.644 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[Opening "QGD Slav defense"]
[PlyCount "57"]
[TimeControl "180"]

1. d4 {book} d5 {book} 2. c4 {book} c6 {book} 3. Nc3 {book} Nf6 {book} 4. Nf3
dxc4 {-0.02/4 0.40s} 5. e3 {0.85s} Bg4 {+1.31/4 0.46s} 6. Bxc4 {1.66s}
e6 {+1.25/4 0.67s} 7. h3 {1.51s} Bxf3 {+0.82/4 0.82s} 8. Qxf3 {1.15s}
Bb4 {+1.25/4 0.77s} 9. O-O {3.77s} Bxc3 {+2.34/4 0.68s} 10. bxc3 {0.87s}
Ng8 {+2.42/4 0.41s} 11. e4 {1.21s} Nd7 {+2.54/4 0.45s} 12. Ba3 {2.68s}
Qf6 {+2.68/4 0.52s} 13. Qe2 {1.98s} b5 {+2.77/4 0.55s} 14. Bd3 {2.07s}
Qh6 {+2.71/4 0.46s} 15. c4 {4.90s} bxc4 {+2.91/4 0.47s} 16. Bxc4 {0.78s}
Qg5 {+2.82/4 0.50s} 17. f4 {4.11s} Qh4 {+2.80/4 0.81s} 18. d5 {5.27s}
exd5 {+2.77/4 0.69s} 19. exd5+ {3.02s} Kd8 {+1.57/4 0.078s} 20. dxc6 {4.93s}
Nb6 {+0.68/4 0.60s} 21. Rad1+ {1.90s} Kc7 {-6.65/4 0.075s} 22. Qe5+ {3.80s}
Kxc6 {-39.20/4 0.053s} 23. Qd6+ {8.52s} Kb7 {-7.00/4 0.020s} 24. Bd5+ {3.52s}
Nxd5 {-23.65/4 0.045s} 25. Qxd5+ {0.63s} Kc7 {-33.17/4 0.067s} 26. Rc1+ {4.08s}
Kb6 {-M4/4 0.033s} 27. Qc5+ {2.14s} Ka6 {-M4/4 0.026s} 28. Qc6+ {2.84s}
Ka5 {-M2/2 0.016s} 29. Rc5# {1.83s, White mates} 1-0

[Event "?"]
[Site "RWBC-CAPPUCCINO Win7U64 Q8200 2.33Ghz + Nvidia GT 710"]
[Date "2022.01.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Monchester_10118-64"]
[Black "Guenther Simon"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A20"]
[GameDuration "00:01:34"]
[GameEndTime "2022-01-04T13:23:02.553 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[GameStartTime "2022-01-04T13:21:27.703 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[Opening "English Opening"]
[PlyCount "54"]
[TimeControl "180"]

1. c4 {book} e5 {book} 2. g3 {book} Nc6 {book} 3. Bg2 {book} Bc5 {book}
4. Bxc6 {+1.08/4 0.23s} bxc6 {3.75s} 5. Qc2 {+0.91/4 0.12s} Nf6 {2.73s}
6. Qf5 {+0.85/4 0.19s} d6 {1.90s} 7. Qf3 {+0.91/4 0.27s} O-O {2.59s}
8. Qxc6 {+1.85/4 0.21s} Rb8 {9.46s} 9. Qg2 {+1.45/4 0.35s} e4 {2.54s}
10. e3 {+1.65/4 0.17s} Re8 {2.51s} 11. Nc3 {+1.68/4 0.20s} c6 {3.24s}
12. h4 {+1.68/4 0.31s} d5 {1.49s} 13. cxd5 {+1.88/4 0.44s} cxd5 {0.57s}
14. Qf1 {+1.71/4 0.39s} d4 {1.03s} 15. exd4 {+1.57/4 0.45s} Bxd4 {0.58s}
16. Nce2 {+1.20/4 0.43s} Bb6 {3.84s} 17. Qg2 {-4.91/4 0.18s} Bb7 {1.80s}
18. b3 {+1.31/4 0.23s} e3 {0.91s} 19. f3 {-7.14/4 0.41s} exd2+ {9.40s}
20. Bxd2 {-8.48/4 0.041s} Qd3 {12.47s} 21. Kd1 {-7.08/4 0.59s} Rbc8 {2.72s}
22. Ke1 {-8.51/4 0.49s} Rc2 {2.41s} 23. Bb4 {-8.85/4 0.73s} Bxg1 {8.27s}
24. Kf1 {-33.82/4 0.70s} Rexe2 {6.27s} 25. Bd2 {-67.40/4 0.73s} Rcxd2 {1.46s}
26. Rc1 {-M4/4 0.32s} Rf2+ {3.12s} 27. Ke1 {-M2/2 0.037s}
Qe2# {1.54s, Black mates} 0-1[/pgn]

Where is the Direct link to play versus Monchester at Lichess.org? And please do not answer with an arrogant and offensive reply, can you please delete your Chessqueen Troll. How would you like if somebody constantly post a troll post about you.?

[lkaufman]

I downloaded monchester windows haswell compile, but it won't install as an engine in Cutechess. Don't know why.

It is xboard...

Thanks. Can you suggest any engine of around that level that will work properly in CuteChess?

What exactly does 'not work' with Monchester?

I have played surely hundreds of games with it in the CuteChessGui. (What version BTW?)
If you had checked my first post you would have also seen that CCRL has tested it with over 700 games.

Yesterday I played it again vs. a newer compilation of a dev branch which should have become 1.0.2
but wasn't finished. Zero problems. No time losses no crashes all games finished regularily.

Code: Select all

RWBC-CAPPUCCINO Win7U64 Q8200 2.33Ghz + Nvidia GT 710, 2022.01.04
                           Score     12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890                                                  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: Monchester_10118-64  67.0 / 100   1111=0110=111111=111===111011=11=011111=1010=1=11111111==01=11000=01=0=010101=1101=0101=1=10=11=0=10  (+55 -21 =24)
 2: Monchester_10-64     33.0 / 100   0000=1001=000000=000===000100=00=100000=0101=0=00000000==10=00111=10=1=101010=0010=1010=0=01=00=1=01  (+21 -55 =24)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It also has the advantage that it plays at fixed depth (4 except compiled for other depth) and therefore is hardware independent for comparing
to its strength related to lichess unlike Safrad2, which plays on a very fast hardware at lichess and a big book too it seems.

I lost several games to Safrad2, instead I never will lose to Monchester with my lichess rating of 2150-2200.
And this is ofc in fast Blitz, I never use inc, those games were always 3/0 and here Safrad2 must be much
much stronger. 3/0 also is the most played tc at lichess anyway (forced by cheaters too - it makes finding
them easier, even super GMs have an error rate far above middle range engines at something like 3/0)

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "RWBC-CAPPUCCINO Win7U64 Q8200 2.33Ghz + Nvidia GT 710"]
[Date "2022.01.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Guenther Simon"]
[Black "Monchester_10118-64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D10"]
[GameDuration "00:01:21"]
[GameEndTime "2022-01-04T13:20:31.137 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[GameStartTime "2022-01-04T13:19:09.644 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[Opening "QGD Slav defense"]
[PlyCount "57"]
[TimeControl "180"]

1. d4 {book} d5 {book} 2. c4 {book} c6 {book} 3. Nc3 {book} Nf6 {book} 4. Nf3
dxc4 {-0.02/4 0.40s} 5. e3 {0.85s} Bg4 {+1.31/4 0.46s} 6. Bxc4 {1.66s}
e6 {+1.25/4 0.67s} 7. h3 {1.51s} Bxf3 {+0.82/4 0.82s} 8. Qxf3 {1.15s}
Bb4 {+1.25/4 0.77s} 9. O-O {3.77s} Bxc3 {+2.34/4 0.68s} 10. bxc3 {0.87s}
Ng8 {+2.42/4 0.41s} 11. e4 {1.21s} Nd7 {+2.54/4 0.45s} 12. Ba3 {2.68s}
Qf6 {+2.68/4 0.52s} 13. Qe2 {1.98s} b5 {+2.77/4 0.55s} 14. Bd3 {2.07s}
Qh6 {+2.71/4 0.46s} 15. c4 {4.90s} bxc4 {+2.91/4 0.47s} 16. Bxc4 {0.78s}
Qg5 {+2.82/4 0.50s} 17. f4 {4.11s} Qh4 {+2.80/4 0.81s} 18. d5 {5.27s}
exd5 {+2.77/4 0.69s} 19. exd5+ {3.02s} Kd8 {+1.57/4 0.078s} 20. dxc6 {4.93s}
Nb6 {+0.68/4 0.60s} 21. Rad1+ {1.90s} Kc7 {-6.65/4 0.075s} 22. Qe5+ {3.80s}
Kxc6 {-39.20/4 0.053s} 23. Qd6+ {8.52s} Kb7 {-7.00/4 0.020s} 24. Bd5+ {3.52s}
Nxd5 {-23.65/4 0.045s} 25. Qxd5+ {0.63s} Kc7 {-33.17/4 0.067s} 26. Rc1+ {4.08s}
Kb6 {-M4/4 0.033s} 27. Qc5+ {2.14s} Ka6 {-M4/4 0.026s} 28. Qc6+ {2.84s}
Ka5 {-M2/2 0.016s} 29. Rc5# {1.83s, White mates} 1-0

[Event "?"]
[Site "RWBC-CAPPUCCINO Win7U64 Q8200 2.33Ghz + Nvidia GT 710"]
[Date "2022.01.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Monchester_10118-64"]
[Black "Guenther Simon"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A20"]
[GameDuration "00:01:34"]
[GameEndTime "2022-01-04T13:23:02.553 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[GameStartTime "2022-01-04T13:21:27.703 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[Opening "English Opening"]
[PlyCount "54"]
[TimeControl "180"]

1. c4 {book} e5 {book} 2. g3 {book} Nc6 {book} 3. Bg2 {book} Bc5 {book}
4. Bxc6 {+1.08/4 0.23s} bxc6 {3.75s} 5. Qc2 {+0.91/4 0.12s} Nf6 {2.73s}
6. Qf5 {+0.85/4 0.19s} d6 {1.90s} 7. Qf3 {+0.91/4 0.27s} O-O {2.59s}
8. Qxc6 {+1.85/4 0.21s} Rb8 {9.46s} 9. Qg2 {+1.45/4 0.35s} e4 {2.54s}
10. e3 {+1.65/4 0.17s} Re8 {2.51s} 11. Nc3 {+1.68/4 0.20s} c6 {3.24s}
12. h4 {+1.68/4 0.31s} d5 {1.49s} 13. cxd5 {+1.88/4 0.44s} cxd5 {0.57s}
14. Qf1 {+1.71/4 0.39s} d4 {1.03s} 15. exd4 {+1.57/4 0.45s} Bxd4 {0.58s}
16. Nce2 {+1.20/4 0.43s} Bb6 {3.84s} 17. Qg2 {-4.91/4 0.18s} Bb7 {1.80s}
18. b3 {+1.31/4 0.23s} e3 {0.91s} 19. f3 {-7.14/4 0.41s} exd2+ {9.40s}
20. Bxd2 {-8.48/4 0.041s} Qd3 {12.47s} 21. Kd1 {-7.08/4 0.59s} Rbc8 {2.72s}
22. Ke1 {-8.51/4 0.49s} Rc2 {2.41s} 23. Bb4 {-8.85/4 0.73s} Bxg1 {8.27s}
24. Kf1 {-33.82/4 0.70s} Rexe2 {6.27s} 25. Bd2 {-67.40/4 0.73s} Rcxd2 {1.46s}
26. Rc1 {-M4/4 0.32s} Rf2+ {3.12s} 27. Ke1 {-M2/2 0.037s}
Qe2# {1.54s, Black mates} 0-1[/pgn]

Sorry, I didn't realize that CuteChess accepts xboard, I've never tested anything but UCI engines until now so I never noticed. Monchester works fine now and appears to be about the target strength. So thank you. Regarding Lichess blitz and Safrad, I see what you mean, its results at 3' with zero inc vs. humans are close to 2200 blitz perf. rating (I'll calculate an exact number later), compared to just 1846 at 5' + 3". Of course humans play very much better with nearly triple time (and don't lose on time), but given that the engine also plays somewhat better with more time it's hard to believe that the engine performance drops 350 elo or so going from 3' to 5' + 3". The only obvious explanation of this would be cheating at the longerr time control. I didn't suspect cheating because most of the human wins were from players who lost many more games than they won to Safrad; I imagined that a cheater would usually win, but perhaps I'm wrong. What do you think, was there significant cheating or is the performance gap really that huge? It's somewhat important because I used these Safrad 5' + 3" games as a baseline for estimating ratings for dragon levels, but if the rating was depressed by cheating then I'm making the Dragon levels stronger than they should be. Although 3' + 0 inc may be the most popular tc for human vs human games, I think most humans prefer longer time controls vs engines (for obvious reasons), with 5' +3" looking like a popular option.

[Chessqueen]

I downloaded monchester windows haswell compile, but it won't install as an engine in Cutechess. Don't know why.

It is xboard...

Thanks. Can you suggest any engine of around that level that will work properly in CuteChess?

What exactly does 'not work' with Monchester?

I have played surely hundreds of games with it in the CuteChessGui. (What version BTW?)
If you had checked my first post you would have also seen that CCRL has tested it with over 700 games.

Yesterday I played it again vs. a newer compilation of a dev branch which should have become 1.0.2
but wasn't finished. Zero problems. No time losses no crashes all games finished regularily.

Code: Select all

RWBC-CAPPUCCINO Win7U64 Q8200 2.33Ghz + Nvidia GT 710, 2022.01.04
                           Score     12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890                                                  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: Monchester_10118-64  67.0 / 100   1111=0110=111111=111===111011=11=011111=1010=1=11111111==01=11000=01=0=010101=1101=0101=1=10=11=0=10  (+55 -21 =24)
 2: Monchester_10-64     33.0 / 100   0000=1001=000000=000===000100=00=100000=0101=0=00000000==10=00111=10=1=101010=0010=1010=0=01=00=1=01  (+21 -55 =24)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It also has the advantage that it plays at fixed depth (4 except compiled for other depth) and therefore is hardware independent for comparing
to its strength related to lichess unlike Safrad2, which plays on a very fast hardware at lichess and a big book too it seems.

I lost several games to Safrad2, instead I never will lose to Monchester with my lichess rating of 2150-2200.
And this is ofc in fast Blitz, I never use inc, those games were always 3/0 and here Safrad2 must be much
much stronger. 3/0 also is the most played tc at lichess anyway (forced by cheaters too - it makes finding
them easier, even super GMs have an error rate far above middle range engines at something like 3/0)


Monchester is too easy to beat, where can I download the executable version of Monchester_10118-64 ?
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2022.01.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Your Truly the Troll"]
[Black "Monchester.windows.haswell"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[ECO "B12"]
[Opening "Caro-Kann"]
[Time "10:55:53"]
[Variation "Masi Defence, 1.e4 c6 2.d4 Nf6"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "180+0"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "117"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 c6 {(4 0 0 c7c6 b1c3 g8f6 e1d2) -0.42/4 0} 2. e4 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g8f6
b1c3 a7a5 f1e2) -0.40/4 0} 3. Nc3 b6 {(4 10530 0 b7b6 c1f4 d7d6 f4d6)
-1.08/4 0} 4. Bd3 Ng8 {(4 10043 0 f6g8 d1g4 d8c7 g4d7) -0.85/4 0} 5. Nf3
c5 {(4 0 0 c6c5 a1b1 c5d4 f3d4) -0.71/4 0} 6. d5 f6 {(4 8704 0 f7f6 c1f4
d7d6 f4d6) -0.97/4 0} 7. O-O d6 {(4 0 0 d7d6 c3b5 h7h5 b5a7) -0.88/4 0} 8.
Be3 g6 {(4 11744 0 g7g6 d3b5 e8f7 e3c5) -1.00/4 0} 9. Ne2 Qd7 {(4 9831 0
d8d7 e2f4 e8f7 e3c5) -0.94/4 0} 10. c4 Bh6 {(4 8212 0 f8h6 a1b1 h6e3
f2e3) -0.65/4 0} 11. Qd2 Bxe3 {(4 0 0 h6e3 d2e3 e8f7 e3c5) -0.82/4 0} 12.
Qxe3 Qa4 {(4 9368 0 d7a4 e2f4 b8a6 e3c5) -0.97/4 0} 13. b3 Qd7 {(4 9151 0
a4d7 e2f4 e8f8 f4g6) -0.94/4 0} 14. Nf4 Na6 {(4 8833 0 b8a6 f3h4 g6g5
e3c5) -1.08/4 0} 15. Ne6 Qb7 {(4 10737 0 d7b7 e6f4 a8b8 e3c5) -1.08/4 0}
16. Ng7+ Kf8 {(4 8543 0 e8f8 g7e6 c8e6 d5e6) +1.82/4 0} 17. Ne6+ Bxe6 {(4
0 0 c8e6 d5e6 a6c7 e3c5) +1.05/4} 18. dxe6 Nc7 {(4 0 0 a6c7 f1c1 c7e6
e3c5) +1.25/4 0} 19. Rfe1 Nxe6 {(4 0 0 c7e6 e1b1 a8b8 e3c5) +2.00/4 0} 20.
e5 fxe5 {(4 9057 0 f6e5 g2g3 a7a6 e3e5) +2.62/4 0} 21. Be4 Qc8 {(4 8906 0
b7c8 e4a8 c8a8 e3e5) -14.88/4 0} 22. Bxa8 Qxa8 {(4 0 0 c8a8 e3c3 a7a6
e1e5) -14.94/4 0} 23. Ng5 Nxg5 {(4 8796 0 e6g5 e3g5 a8e8 e1e5) -14.77/4 0}
24. Qxg5 a5 {(4 7926 0 a7a5 e1d1 a8a6 g5e5) -14.91/4 0} 25. f3 e6 {(4 8095
0 e7e6 a1d1 a8a6 g5e5) -14.97/4 0} 26. Re4 Qc8 {(4 12630 0 a8c8 a1e1 c8e8
g5e5) -14.94/4 0} 27. Rh4 Kf7 {(4 9281 0 f8f7 a1c1 c8c7 g5g6) -14.91/4 0}
28. f4 h6 {(4 7663 0 h7h6 g5g3 e5f4 g3g6) -14.28/4 0} 29. Qg3 Qb7 {(4
10278 0 c8b7 g3c3 b7e7 h4h6) -14.71/4 0} 30. fxe5 dxe5 {(4 9085 0 d6e5
g3e5 h8h7 e5c5) -16.11/4 0} 31. Rf1+ Ke7 {(4 0 0 f7e7 g3g6 e5e4 g6g8)
-24.14/4 0} 32. Qxe5 Rh7 {(4 8919 0 h8h7 f1f3 b7d7 h4h6) -15.94/4 0} 33.
Re4 Qc8 {(4 7873 0 b7c8 g1h1 c8c6 e5e6) -15.88/4 0} 34. Rfe1 Ke8 {(4 10345
0 e7e8 e5d6 g8f6 d6c5) -15.91/4 0} 35. Qxe6+ Qxe6 {(4 0 0 c8e6 e4e6 e8d7
e6g6) -16.82/4 0} 36. Rxe6+ Kf7 {(4 0 0 e8f7 e6e8 h7g7 e8g8) -25.22/4} 37.
Rxb6 Rh8 {(4 0 0 h7h8 b6b8 a5a4 b8g8) -26.14/4} 38. Rc6 a4 {(4 0 0 a5a4
c6c8 a4b3 c8g8) -25.97/4} 39. Rxc5 axb3 {(4 0 0 a4b3 c5c8 b3a2 c8g8)
-25.97/4 0} 40. axb3 Kg7 {(4 0 0 f7g7 e1e8 g7f7 e8g8) -27.20/4} 41. Rc7+
Kf6 {(4 0 0 g7f6 e1e8 f6g5 e8g8) -27.31/4} 42. c5 g5 {(4 0 0 g6g5 c7c8
f6f7 c8g8) -27.20/4} 43. b4 Kg6 {(4 0 0 f6g6 c7c8 g6f6 c8g8) -27.17/4} 44.
c6 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g8f6 e1e6 h8b8 e6f6) -27.14/4} 45. b5 Rd8 {(4 0 0 h8d8
e1f1 f6g4 c7a7) -18.14/4 0} 46. b6 h5 {(4 11930 0 h6h5 g1h1 g6f5 e1f1)
-18.14/4 0} 47. b7 Rb8 {(4 7134 0 d8b8 c7c8 b8b7 c6b7) -42.51/4 0} 48. Rc8
g4 {(4 6945 0 g5g4 c8b8 g6h7 e1e6) -43.65/4 0} 49. Rxb8 g3 {(4 7428 0
g4g3 b8g8 f6g8 b7b8q) -59.48/4 0} 50. c7 gxh2+ {(4 0 0 g3h2 g1h1 f6d5
c7c8q) -M311/4 0} 51. Kxh2 Ng4+ {(4 0 0 f6g4 h2g1 g4e3 c7c8q) -M263/4 0}
52. Kg1 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g4f6 c7c8q g6g7 e1e8) -M230/4 0} 53. c8=Q Nd7 {(4 7610
0 f6d7 c8d7 g6g5 d7d2) -M237/4 0} 54. Qg8+ Kf6 {(4 0 0 g6f6 b8e8 d7e5
b7b8q) -M159/4} 55. Rd8 Ne5 {(4 0 0 d7e5 b7b8q e5g6 g8g6) -M173/4 0} 56.
b8=Q Ng6 {(4 0 0 e5g6 b8b5 h5h4 e1e6) -M499/4 0} 57. Rd6+ Kf5 {(4 0 0
f6f5 d6d5 f5f6 e1e6) -M499/4} 58. Qxg6+ Kf4 {(2 0 0 f5f4 e1e4) -M499/2}
59. Qf8# 1-0[/pgn]

[Cornfed]

Monchester is too easy to beat, where can I download the executable version of Monchester_10118-64 ?
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2022.01.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Your Truly the Troll"]
[Black "Monchester.windows.haswell"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[ECO "B12"]
[Opening "Caro-Kann"]
[Time "10:55:53"]
[Variation "Masi Defence, 1.e4 c6 2.d4 Nf6"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "180+0"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "117"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 c6 {(4 0 0 c7c6 b1c3 g8f6 e1d2) -0.42/4 0} 2. e4 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g8f6
b1c3 a7a5 f1e2) -0.40/4 0} 3. Nc3 b6 {(4 10530 0 b7b6 c1f4 d7d6 f4d6)
-1.08/4 0} 4. Bd3 Ng8 {(4 10043 0 f6g8 d1g4 d8c7 g4d7) -0.85/4 0} 5. Nf3
c5 {(4 0 0 c6c5 a1b1 c5d4 f3d4) -0.71/4 0} 6. d5 f6 {(4 8704 0 f7f6 c1f4
d7d6 f4d6) -0.97/4 0} 7. O-O d6 {(4 0 0 d7d6 c3b5 h7h5 b5a7) -0.88/4 0} 8.
Be3 g6 {(4 11744 0 g7g6 d3b5 e8f7 e3c5) -1.00/4 0} 9. Ne2 Qd7 {(4 9831 0
d8d7 e2f4 e8f7 e3c5) -0.94/4 0} 10. c4 Bh6 {(4 8212 0 f8h6 a1b1 h6e3
f2e3) -0.65/4 0} 11. Qd2 Bxe3 {(4 0 0 h6e3 d2e3 e8f7 e3c5) -0.82/4 0} 12.
Qxe3 Qa4 {(4 9368 0 d7a4 e2f4 b8a6 e3c5) -0.97/4 0} 13. b3 Qd7 {(4 9151 0
a4d7 e2f4 e8f8 f4g6) -0.94/4 0} 14. Nf4 Na6 {(4 8833 0 b8a6 f3h4 g6g5
e3c5) -1.08/4 0} 15. Ne6 Qb7 {(4 10737 0 d7b7 e6f4 a8b8 e3c5) -1.08/4 0}
16. Ng7+ Kf8 {(4 8543 0 e8f8 g7e6 c8e6 d5e6) +1.82/4 0} 17. Ne6+ Bxe6 {(4
0 0 c8e6 d5e6 a6c7 e3c5) +1.05/4} 18. dxe6 Nc7 {(4 0 0 a6c7 f1c1 c7e6
e3c5) +1.25/4 0} 19. Rfe1 Nxe6 {(4 0 0 c7e6 e1b1 a8b8 e3c5) +2.00/4 0} 20.
e5 fxe5 {(4 9057 0 f6e5 g2g3 a7a6 e3e5) +2.62/4 0} 21. Be4 Qc8 {(4 8906 0
b7c8 e4a8 c8a8 e3e5) -14.88/4 0} 22. Bxa8 Qxa8 {(4 0 0 c8a8 e3c3 a7a6
e1e5) -14.94/4 0} 23. Ng5 Nxg5 {(4 8796 0 e6g5 e3g5 a8e8 e1e5) -14.77/4 0}
24. Qxg5 a5 {(4 7926 0 a7a5 e1d1 a8a6 g5e5) -14.91/4 0} 25. f3 e6 {(4 8095
0 e7e6 a1d1 a8a6 g5e5) -14.97/4 0} 26. Re4 Qc8 {(4 12630 0 a8c8 a1e1 c8e8
g5e5) -14.94/4 0} 27. Rh4 Kf7 {(4 9281 0 f8f7 a1c1 c8c7 g5g6) -14.91/4 0}
28. f4 h6 {(4 7663 0 h7h6 g5g3 e5f4 g3g6) -14.28/4 0} 29. Qg3 Qb7 {(4
10278 0 c8b7 g3c3 b7e7 h4h6) -14.71/4 0} 30. fxe5 dxe5 {(4 9085 0 d6e5
g3e5 h8h7 e5c5) -16.11/4 0} 31. Rf1+ Ke7 {(4 0 0 f7e7 g3g6 e5e4 g6g8)
-24.14/4 0} 32. Qxe5 Rh7 {(4 8919 0 h8h7 f1f3 b7d7 h4h6) -15.94/4 0} 33.
Re4 Qc8 {(4 7873 0 b7c8 g1h1 c8c6 e5e6) -15.88/4 0} 34. Rfe1 Ke8 {(4 10345
0 e7e8 e5d6 g8f6 d6c5) -15.91/4 0} 35. Qxe6+ Qxe6 {(4 0 0 c8e6 e4e6 e8d7
e6g6) -16.82/4 0} 36. Rxe6+ Kf7 {(4 0 0 e8f7 e6e8 h7g7 e8g8) -25.22/4} 37.
Rxb6 Rh8 {(4 0 0 h7h8 b6b8 a5a4 b8g8) -26.14/4} 38. Rc6 a4 {(4 0 0 a5a4
c6c8 a4b3 c8g8) -25.97/4} 39. Rxc5 axb3 {(4 0 0 a4b3 c5c8 b3a2 c8g8)
-25.97/4 0} 40. axb3 Kg7 {(4 0 0 f7g7 e1e8 g7f7 e8g8) -27.20/4} 41. Rc7+
Kf6 {(4 0 0 g7f6 e1e8 f6g5 e8g8) -27.31/4} 42. c5 g5 {(4 0 0 g6g5 c7c8
f6f7 c8g8) -27.20/4} 43. b4 Kg6 {(4 0 0 f6g6 c7c8 g6f6 c8g8) -27.17/4} 44.
c6 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g8f6 e1e6 h8b8 e6f6) -27.14/4} 45. b5 Rd8 {(4 0 0 h8d8
e1f1 f6g4 c7a7) -18.14/4 0} 46. b6 h5 {(4 11930 0 h6h5 g1h1 g6f5 e1f1)
-18.14/4 0} 47. b7 Rb8 {(4 7134 0 d8b8 c7c8 b8b7 c6b7) -42.51/4 0} 48. Rc8
g4 {(4 6945 0 g5g4 c8b8 g6h7 e1e6) -43.65/4 0} 49. Rxb8 g3 {(4 7428 0
g4g3 b8g8 f6g8 b7b8q) -59.48/4 0} 50. c7 gxh2+ {(4 0 0 g3h2 g1h1 f6d5
c7c8q) -M311/4 0} 51. Kxh2 Ng4+ {(4 0 0 f6g4 h2g1 g4e3 c7c8q) -M263/4 0}
52. Kg1 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g4f6 c7c8q g6g7 e1e8) -M230/4 0} 53. c8=Q Nd7 {(4 7610
0 f6d7 c8d7 g6g5 d7d2) -M237/4 0} 54. Qg8+ Kf6 {(4 0 0 g6f6 b8e8 d7e5
b7b8q) -M159/4} 55. Rd8 Ne5 {(4 0 0 d7e5 b7b8q e5g6 g8g6) -M173/4 0} 56.
b8=Q Ng6 {(4 0 0 e5g6 b8b5 h5h4 e1e6) -M499/4 0} 57. Rd6+ Kf5 {(4 0 0
f6f5 d6d5 f5f6 e1e6) -M499/4} 58. Qxg6+ Kf4 {(2 0 0 f5f4 e1e4) -M499/2}
59. Qf8# 1-0[/pgn]

God that's horrible play...a bad human would not make these moves!

[Chessqueen]

Monchester is too easy to beat, where can I download the executable version of Monchester_10118-64 ?
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2022.01.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Your Truly the Troll"]
[Black "Monchester.windows.haswell"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[ECO "B12"]
[Opening "Caro-Kann"]
[Time "10:55:53"]
[Variation "Masi Defence, 1.e4 c6 2.d4 Nf6"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "180+0"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "117"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 c6 {(4 0 0 c7c6 b1c3 g8f6 e1d2) -0.42/4 0} 2. e4 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g8f6
b1c3 a7a5 f1e2) -0.40/4 0} 3. Nc3 b6 {(4 10530 0 b7b6 c1f4 d7d6 f4d6)
-1.08/4 0} 4. Bd3 Ng8 {(4 10043 0 f6g8 d1g4 d8c7 g4d7) -0.85/4 0} 5. Nf3
c5 {(4 0 0 c6c5 a1b1 c5d4 f3d4) -0.71/4 0} 6. d5 f6 {(4 8704 0 f7f6 c1f4
d7d6 f4d6) -0.97/4 0} 7. O-O d6 {(4 0 0 d7d6 c3b5 h7h5 b5a7) -0.88/4 0} 8.
Be3 g6 {(4 11744 0 g7g6 d3b5 e8f7 e3c5) -1.00/4 0} 9. Ne2 Qd7 {(4 9831 0
d8d7 e2f4 e8f7 e3c5) -0.94/4 0} 10. c4 Bh6 {(4 8212 0 f8h6 a1b1 h6e3
f2e3) -0.65/4 0} 11. Qd2 Bxe3 {(4 0 0 h6e3 d2e3 e8f7 e3c5) -0.82/4 0} 12.
Qxe3 Qa4 {(4 9368 0 d7a4 e2f4 b8a6 e3c5) -0.97/4 0} 13. b3 Qd7 {(4 9151 0
a4d7 e2f4 e8f8 f4g6) -0.94/4 0} 14. Nf4 Na6 {(4 8833 0 b8a6 f3h4 g6g5
e3c5) -1.08/4 0} 15. Ne6 Qb7 {(4 10737 0 d7b7 e6f4 a8b8 e3c5) -1.08/4 0}
16. Ng7+ Kf8 {(4 8543 0 e8f8 g7e6 c8e6 d5e6) +1.82/4 0} 17. Ne6+ Bxe6 {(4
0 0 c8e6 d5e6 a6c7 e3c5) +1.05/4} 18. dxe6 Nc7 {(4 0 0 a6c7 f1c1 c7e6
e3c5) +1.25/4 0} 19. Rfe1 Nxe6 {(4 0 0 c7e6 e1b1 a8b8 e3c5) +2.00/4 0} 20.
e5 fxe5 {(4 9057 0 f6e5 g2g3 a7a6 e3e5) +2.62/4 0} 21. Be4 Qc8 {(4 8906 0
b7c8 e4a8 c8a8 e3e5) -14.88/4 0} 22. Bxa8 Qxa8 {(4 0 0 c8a8 e3c3 a7a6
e1e5) -14.94/4 0} 23. Ng5 Nxg5 {(4 8796 0 e6g5 e3g5 a8e8 e1e5) -14.77/4 0}
24. Qxg5 a5 {(4 7926 0 a7a5 e1d1 a8a6 g5e5) -14.91/4 0} 25. f3 e6 {(4 8095
0 e7e6 a1d1 a8a6 g5e5) -14.97/4 0} 26. Re4 Qc8 {(4 12630 0 a8c8 a1e1 c8e8
g5e5) -14.94/4 0} 27. Rh4 Kf7 {(4 9281 0 f8f7 a1c1 c8c7 g5g6) -14.91/4 0}
28. f4 h6 {(4 7663 0 h7h6 g5g3 e5f4 g3g6) -14.28/4 0} 29. Qg3 Qb7 {(4
10278 0 c8b7 g3c3 b7e7 h4h6) -14.71/4 0} 30. fxe5 dxe5 {(4 9085 0 d6e5
g3e5 h8h7 e5c5) -16.11/4 0} 31. Rf1+ Ke7 {(4 0 0 f7e7 g3g6 e5e4 g6g8)
-24.14/4 0} 32. Qxe5 Rh7 {(4 8919 0 h8h7 f1f3 b7d7 h4h6) -15.94/4 0} 33.
Re4 Qc8 {(4 7873 0 b7c8 g1h1 c8c6 e5e6) -15.88/4 0} 34. Rfe1 Ke8 {(4 10345
0 e7e8 e5d6 g8f6 d6c5) -15.91/4 0} 35. Qxe6+ Qxe6 {(4 0 0 c8e6 e4e6 e8d7
e6g6) -16.82/4 0} 36. Rxe6+ Kf7 {(4 0 0 e8f7 e6e8 h7g7 e8g8) -25.22/4} 37.
Rxb6 Rh8 {(4 0 0 h7h8 b6b8 a5a4 b8g8) -26.14/4} 38. Rc6 a4 {(4 0 0 a5a4
c6c8 a4b3 c8g8) -25.97/4} 39. Rxc5 axb3 {(4 0 0 a4b3 c5c8 b3a2 c8g8)
-25.97/4 0} 40. axb3 Kg7 {(4 0 0 f7g7 e1e8 g7f7 e8g8) -27.20/4} 41. Rc7+
Kf6 {(4 0 0 g7f6 e1e8 f6g5 e8g8) -27.31/4} 42. c5 g5 {(4 0 0 g6g5 c7c8
f6f7 c8g8) -27.20/4} 43. b4 Kg6 {(4 0 0 f6g6 c7c8 g6f6 c8g8) -27.17/4} 44.
c6 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g8f6 e1e6 h8b8 e6f6) -27.14/4} 45. b5 Rd8 {(4 0 0 h8d8
e1f1 f6g4 c7a7) -18.14/4 0} 46. b6 h5 {(4 11930 0 h6h5 g1h1 g6f5 e1f1)
-18.14/4 0} 47. b7 Rb8 {(4 7134 0 d8b8 c7c8 b8b7 c6b7) -42.51/4 0} 48. Rc8
g4 {(4 6945 0 g5g4 c8b8 g6h7 e1e6) -43.65/4 0} 49. Rxb8 g3 {(4 7428 0
g4g3 b8g8 f6g8 b7b8q) -59.48/4 0} 50. c7 gxh2+ {(4 0 0 g3h2 g1h1 f6d5
c7c8q) -M311/4 0} 51. Kxh2 Ng4+ {(4 0 0 f6g4 h2g1 g4e3 c7c8q) -M263/4 0}
52. Kg1 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g4f6 c7c8q g6g7 e1e8) -M230/4 0} 53. c8=Q Nd7 {(4 7610
0 f6d7 c8d7 g6g5 d7d2) -M237/4 0} 54. Qg8+ Kf6 {(4 0 0 g6f6 b8e8 d7e5
b7b8q) -M159/4} 55. Rd8 Ne5 {(4 0 0 d7e5 b7b8q e5g6 g8g6) -M173/4 0} 56.
b8=Q Ng6 {(4 0 0 e5g6 b8b5 h5h4 e1e6) -M499/4 0} 57. Rd6+ Kf5 {(4 0 0
f6f5 d6d5 f5f6 e1e6) -M499/4} 58. Qxg6+ Kf4 {(2 0 0 f5f4 e1e4) -M499/2}
59. Qf8# 1-0[/pgn]

God that's horrible play...a bad human would not make these moves!

Did you see the time control, game in 3 minutes, anyway I am not near your level, i am just a patzer that can beat Monchester easy, according to Guenther, Probably a 900 rated according to Guenther. You are correct NOT even a 700 rated human would make such horrible moves

[Carlos777]

Monchester is too easy to beat, where can I download the executable version of Monchester_10118-64 ?
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2022.01.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Your Truly the Troll"]
[Black "Monchester.windows.haswell"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[ECO "B12"]
[Opening "Caro-Kann"]
[Time "10:55:53"]
[Variation "Masi Defence, 1.e4 c6 2.d4 Nf6"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "180+0"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "117"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 c6 {(4 0 0 c7c6 b1c3 g8f6 e1d2) -0.42/4 0} 2. e4 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g8f6
b1c3 a7a5 f1e2) -0.40/4 0} 3. Nc3 b6 {(4 10530 0 b7b6 c1f4 d7d6 f4d6)
-1.08/4 0} 4. Bd3 Ng8 {(4 10043 0 f6g8 d1g4 d8c7 g4d7) -0.85/4 0} 5. Nf3
c5 {(4 0 0 c6c5 a1b1 c5d4 f3d4) -0.71/4 0} 6. d5 f6 {(4 8704 0 f7f6 c1f4
d7d6 f4d6) -0.97/4 0} 7. O-O d6 {(4 0 0 d7d6 c3b5 h7h5 b5a7) -0.88/4 0} 8.
Be3 g6 {(4 11744 0 g7g6 d3b5 e8f7 e3c5) -1.00/4 0} 9. Ne2 Qd7 {(4 9831 0
d8d7 e2f4 e8f7 e3c5) -0.94/4 0} 10. c4 Bh6 {(4 8212 0 f8h6 a1b1 h6e3
f2e3) -0.65/4 0} 11. Qd2 Bxe3 {(4 0 0 h6e3 d2e3 e8f7 e3c5) -0.82/4 0} 12.
Qxe3 Qa4 {(4 9368 0 d7a4 e2f4 b8a6 e3c5) -0.97/4 0} 13. b3 Qd7 {(4 9151 0
a4d7 e2f4 e8f8 f4g6) -0.94/4 0} 14. Nf4 Na6 {(4 8833 0 b8a6 f3h4 g6g5
e3c5) -1.08/4 0} 15. Ne6 Qb7 {(4 10737 0 d7b7 e6f4 a8b8 e3c5) -1.08/4 0}
16. Ng7+ Kf8 {(4 8543 0 e8f8 g7e6 c8e6 d5e6) +1.82/4 0} 17. Ne6+ Bxe6 {(4
0 0 c8e6 d5e6 a6c7 e3c5) +1.05/4} 18. dxe6 Nc7 {(4 0 0 a6c7 f1c1 c7e6
e3c5) +1.25/4 0} 19. Rfe1 Nxe6 {(4 0 0 c7e6 e1b1 a8b8 e3c5) +2.00/4 0} 20.
e5 fxe5 {(4 9057 0 f6e5 g2g3 a7a6 e3e5) +2.62/4 0} 21. Be4 Qc8 {(4 8906 0
b7c8 e4a8 c8a8 e3e5) -14.88/4 0} 22. Bxa8 Qxa8 {(4 0 0 c8a8 e3c3 a7a6
e1e5) -14.94/4 0} 23. Ng5 Nxg5 {(4 8796 0 e6g5 e3g5 a8e8 e1e5) -14.77/4 0}
24. Qxg5 a5 {(4 7926 0 a7a5 e1d1 a8a6 g5e5) -14.91/4 0} 25. f3 e6 {(4 8095
0 e7e6 a1d1 a8a6 g5e5) -14.97/4 0} 26. Re4 Qc8 {(4 12630 0 a8c8 a1e1 c8e8
g5e5) -14.94/4 0} 27. Rh4 Kf7 {(4 9281 0 f8f7 a1c1 c8c7 g5g6) -14.91/4 0}
28. f4 h6 {(4 7663 0 h7h6 g5g3 e5f4 g3g6) -14.28/4 0} 29. Qg3 Qb7 {(4
10278 0 c8b7 g3c3 b7e7 h4h6) -14.71/4 0} 30. fxe5 dxe5 {(4 9085 0 d6e5
g3e5 h8h7 e5c5) -16.11/4 0} 31. Rf1+ Ke7 {(4 0 0 f7e7 g3g6 e5e4 g6g8)
-24.14/4 0} 32. Qxe5 Rh7 {(4 8919 0 h8h7 f1f3 b7d7 h4h6) -15.94/4 0} 33.
Re4 Qc8 {(4 7873 0 b7c8 g1h1 c8c6 e5e6) -15.88/4 0} 34. Rfe1 Ke8 {(4 10345
0 e7e8 e5d6 g8f6 d6c5) -15.91/4 0} 35. Qxe6+ Qxe6 {(4 0 0 c8e6 e4e6 e8d7
e6g6) -16.82/4 0} 36. Rxe6+ Kf7 {(4 0 0 e8f7 e6e8 h7g7 e8g8) -25.22/4} 37.
Rxb6 Rh8 {(4 0 0 h7h8 b6b8 a5a4 b8g8) -26.14/4} 38. Rc6 a4 {(4 0 0 a5a4
c6c8 a4b3 c8g8) -25.97/4} 39. Rxc5 axb3 {(4 0 0 a4b3 c5c8 b3a2 c8g8)
-25.97/4 0} 40. axb3 Kg7 {(4 0 0 f7g7 e1e8 g7f7 e8g8) -27.20/4} 41. Rc7+
Kf6 {(4 0 0 g7f6 e1e8 f6g5 e8g8) -27.31/4} 42. c5 g5 {(4 0 0 g6g5 c7c8
f6f7 c8g8) -27.20/4} 43. b4 Kg6 {(4 0 0 f6g6 c7c8 g6f6 c8g8) -27.17/4} 44.
c6 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g8f6 e1e6 h8b8 e6f6) -27.14/4} 45. b5 Rd8 {(4 0 0 h8d8
e1f1 f6g4 c7a7) -18.14/4 0} 46. b6 h5 {(4 11930 0 h6h5 g1h1 g6f5 e1f1)
-18.14/4 0} 47. b7 Rb8 {(4 7134 0 d8b8 c7c8 b8b7 c6b7) -42.51/4 0} 48. Rc8
g4 {(4 6945 0 g5g4 c8b8 g6h7 e1e6) -43.65/4 0} 49. Rxb8 g3 {(4 7428 0
g4g3 b8g8 f6g8 b7b8q) -59.48/4 0} 50. c7 gxh2+ {(4 0 0 g3h2 g1h1 f6d5
c7c8q) -M311/4 0} 51. Kxh2 Ng4+ {(4 0 0 f6g4 h2g1 g4e3 c7c8q) -M263/4 0}
52. Kg1 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g4f6 c7c8q g6g7 e1e8) -M230/4 0} 53. c8=Q Nd7 {(4 7610
0 f6d7 c8d7 g6g5 d7d2) -M237/4 0} 54. Qg8+ Kf6 {(4 0 0 g6f6 b8e8 d7e5
b7b8q) -M159/4} 55. Rd8 Ne5 {(4 0 0 d7e5 b7b8q e5g6 g8g6) -M173/4 0} 56.
b8=Q Ng6 {(4 0 0 e5g6 b8b5 h5h4 e1e6) -M499/4 0} 57. Rd6+ Kf5 {(4 0 0
f6f5 d6d5 f5f6 e1e6) -M499/4} 58. Qxg6+ Kf4 {(2 0 0 f5f4 e1e4) -M499/2}
59. Qf8# 1-0[/pgn]

God that's horrible play...a bad human would not make these moves!

Did you see the time control, game in 3 minutes, anyway I am not near your level, i am just a patzer that can beat Monchester easy, according to Guenther, Probably a 900 rated according to Guenther. You are correct NOT even a 700 rated human would make such horrible moves

1333 according to Lichess at blitz

https://lichess.org/@/monchester/perf/blitz

[lkaufman]

Monchester is too easy to beat, where can I download the executable version of Monchester_10118-64 ?
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2022.01.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Your Truly the Troll"]
[Black "Monchester.windows.haswell"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[ECO "B12"]
[Opening "Caro-Kann"]
[Time "10:55:53"]
[Variation "Masi Defence, 1.e4 c6 2.d4 Nf6"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "180+0"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "117"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 c6 {(4 0 0 c7c6 b1c3 g8f6 e1d2) -0.42/4 0} 2. e4 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g8f6
b1c3 a7a5 f1e2) -0.40/4 0} 3. Nc3 b6 {(4 10530 0 b7b6 c1f4 d7d6 f4d6)
-1.08/4 0} 4. Bd3 Ng8 {(4 10043 0 f6g8 d1g4 d8c7 g4d7) -0.85/4 0} 5. Nf3
c5 {(4 0 0 c6c5 a1b1 c5d4 f3d4) -0.71/4 0} 6. d5 f6 {(4 8704 0 f7f6 c1f4
d7d6 f4d6) -0.97/4 0} 7. O-O d6 {(4 0 0 d7d6 c3b5 h7h5 b5a7) -0.88/4 0} 8.
Be3 g6 {(4 11744 0 g7g6 d3b5 e8f7 e3c5) -1.00/4 0} 9. Ne2 Qd7 {(4 9831 0
d8d7 e2f4 e8f7 e3c5) -0.94/4 0} 10. c4 Bh6 {(4 8212 0 f8h6 a1b1 h6e3
f2e3) -0.65/4 0} 11. Qd2 Bxe3 {(4 0 0 h6e3 d2e3 e8f7 e3c5) -0.82/4 0} 12.
Qxe3 Qa4 {(4 9368 0 d7a4 e2f4 b8a6 e3c5) -0.97/4 0} 13. b3 Qd7 {(4 9151 0
a4d7 e2f4 e8f8 f4g6) -0.94/4 0} 14. Nf4 Na6 {(4 8833 0 b8a6 f3h4 g6g5
e3c5) -1.08/4 0} 15. Ne6 Qb7 {(4 10737 0 d7b7 e6f4 a8b8 e3c5) -1.08/4 0}
16. Ng7+ Kf8 {(4 8543 0 e8f8 g7e6 c8e6 d5e6) +1.82/4 0} 17. Ne6+ Bxe6 {(4
0 0 c8e6 d5e6 a6c7 e3c5) +1.05/4} 18. dxe6 Nc7 {(4 0 0 a6c7 f1c1 c7e6
e3c5) +1.25/4 0} 19. Rfe1 Nxe6 {(4 0 0 c7e6 e1b1 a8b8 e3c5) +2.00/4 0} 20.
e5 fxe5 {(4 9057 0 f6e5 g2g3 a7a6 e3e5) +2.62/4 0} 21. Be4 Qc8 {(4 8906 0
b7c8 e4a8 c8a8 e3e5) -14.88/4 0} 22. Bxa8 Qxa8 {(4 0 0 c8a8 e3c3 a7a6
e1e5) -14.94/4 0} 23. Ng5 Nxg5 {(4 8796 0 e6g5 e3g5 a8e8 e1e5) -14.77/4 0}
24. Qxg5 a5 {(4 7926 0 a7a5 e1d1 a8a6 g5e5) -14.91/4 0} 25. f3 e6 {(4 8095
0 e7e6 a1d1 a8a6 g5e5) -14.97/4 0} 26. Re4 Qc8 {(4 12630 0 a8c8 a1e1 c8e8
g5e5) -14.94/4 0} 27. Rh4 Kf7 {(4 9281 0 f8f7 a1c1 c8c7 g5g6) -14.91/4 0}
28. f4 h6 {(4 7663 0 h7h6 g5g3 e5f4 g3g6) -14.28/4 0} 29. Qg3 Qb7 {(4
10278 0 c8b7 g3c3 b7e7 h4h6) -14.71/4 0} 30. fxe5 dxe5 {(4 9085 0 d6e5
g3e5 h8h7 e5c5) -16.11/4 0} 31. Rf1+ Ke7 {(4 0 0 f7e7 g3g6 e5e4 g6g8)
-24.14/4 0} 32. Qxe5 Rh7 {(4 8919 0 h8h7 f1f3 b7d7 h4h6) -15.94/4 0} 33.
Re4 Qc8 {(4 7873 0 b7c8 g1h1 c8c6 e5e6) -15.88/4 0} 34. Rfe1 Ke8 {(4 10345
0 e7e8 e5d6 g8f6 d6c5) -15.91/4 0} 35. Qxe6+ Qxe6 {(4 0 0 c8e6 e4e6 e8d7
e6g6) -16.82/4 0} 36. Rxe6+ Kf7 {(4 0 0 e8f7 e6e8 h7g7 e8g8) -25.22/4} 37.
Rxb6 Rh8 {(4 0 0 h7h8 b6b8 a5a4 b8g8) -26.14/4} 38. Rc6 a4 {(4 0 0 a5a4
c6c8 a4b3 c8g8) -25.97/4} 39. Rxc5 axb3 {(4 0 0 a4b3 c5c8 b3a2 c8g8)
-25.97/4 0} 40. axb3 Kg7 {(4 0 0 f7g7 e1e8 g7f7 e8g8) -27.20/4} 41. Rc7+
Kf6 {(4 0 0 g7f6 e1e8 f6g5 e8g8) -27.31/4} 42. c5 g5 {(4 0 0 g6g5 c7c8
f6f7 c8g8) -27.20/4} 43. b4 Kg6 {(4 0 0 f6g6 c7c8 g6f6 c8g8) -27.17/4} 44.
c6 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g8f6 e1e6 h8b8 e6f6) -27.14/4} 45. b5 Rd8 {(4 0 0 h8d8
e1f1 f6g4 c7a7) -18.14/4 0} 46. b6 h5 {(4 11930 0 h6h5 g1h1 g6f5 e1f1)
-18.14/4 0} 47. b7 Rb8 {(4 7134 0 d8b8 c7c8 b8b7 c6b7) -42.51/4 0} 48. Rc8
g4 {(4 6945 0 g5g4 c8b8 g6h7 e1e6) -43.65/4 0} 49. Rxb8 g3 {(4 7428 0
g4g3 b8g8 f6g8 b7b8q) -59.48/4 0} 50. c7 gxh2+ {(4 0 0 g3h2 g1h1 f6d5
c7c8q) -M311/4 0} 51. Kxh2 Ng4+ {(4 0 0 f6g4 h2g1 g4e3 c7c8q) -M263/4 0}
52. Kg1 Nf6 {(4 0 0 g4f6 c7c8q g6g7 e1e8) -M230/4 0} 53. c8=Q Nd7 {(4 7610
0 f6d7 c8d7 g6g5 d7d2) -M237/4 0} 54. Qg8+ Kf6 {(4 0 0 g6f6 b8e8 d7e5
b7b8q) -M159/4} 55. Rd8 Ne5 {(4 0 0 d7e5 b7b8q e5g6 g8g6) -M173/4 0} 56.
b8=Q Ng6 {(4 0 0 e5g6 b8b5 h5h4 e1e6) -M499/4 0} 57. Rd6+ Kf5 {(4 0 0
f6f5 d6d5 f5f6 e1e6) -M499/4} 58. Qxg6+ Kf4 {(2 0 0 f5f4 e1e4) -M499/2}
59. Qf8# 1-0[/pgn]

God that's horrible play...a bad human would not make these moves!

As a chess player, I of course totally agree with you. But as a statistician, here are some surprising results: I looked at the last 100 rated games played by the Monchester bot on LiChess at 5' plus two to four seconds (or equivalent) vs humans, and the result was that the bot scored 53 wins, 44 losses, and 3 draws vs. 1553 average opposition for a 1584 performance rating, which equates to 1503 FIDE per the formula in another thread. Five minutes plus 3 seconds (average) is not so fast, and the bot is set to play the same regardless of time control. It's hard to believe that a bot that plays so many silly moves could be that good, but apparently tactics is everything and a four ply search is pretty good for blitz. In 3 plus 0 games, the performance was much higher, though not too many humans play against it that fast. If we define the rating as what it would earn vs. humans in Rapid (15' + 10"), it would of course be lower, but not more than a class lower, at least 1300 FIDE level. I did some tests with Dragon Elo levels and it seems that they are evenly matched at about 1232 Elo setting on Dragon (time limit doesn't matter, as both engines are defined by depth or nodes, not time). Of course the play is totally different; Dragon plays reasonably good chess positionally even at this level but only does a crippled one ply search so is tactically weaker to compensate. More like a mid level human amateur playing blitz might do. Anyway based on this it appears that we are not far off in the elo settings, maybe they play a bit stronger than intended, at least at around this level.
It is also interesting to compare the above to the 1723 FIDE equivalent Elo rating on Lichess for Safrad 2.2 at this same time control (av. 5' 3"). Safrad is only 220 elo higher by that calculation. This seems like way too small a difference, the difference seems like day and night, and a direct match is a massacre. This could indicate cheating against Safrad by some opponents, or it may just mean that engine vs engine exaggerates elo differences by more than I thought.

[Cornfed]

God that's horrible play...a bad human would not make these moves!

Did you see the time control, game in 3 minutes, anyway I am not near your level, i am just a patzer that can beat Monchester easy, according to Guenther, Probably a 900 rated according to Guenther. You are correct NOT even a 700 rated human would make such horrible moves

Actually I was talking about the engines play. I mean, no human would even consider 4...Ng8 for example.