Father wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 6:47 am [pgn][pgn][/pgn][/pgn][pgn][Event "Casual blitz game"]Father wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 3:49 amGood evening Mr. Larry Kaufman. I've been thinking a little about the importance of motivations to attract humans to play chess against odds bots.lkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 5:41 pmYes, preparation and experience help, and the skill set needed to beat the bot at knight odds is not identical to the skill set needed to top normal rating lists, but they are highly correlated. I don't claim that it is impossible for any human ever to win a knight odds blitz match from Leela, only that it is unlikely to happen given that the very best chess players in the world are unlikely to devote hundreds of hours to this challenge, although there is some motivation in that it seems likely that playing hundreds of games with the bot at knight odds will improve one's play in normal chess against humans at similar time limits. It's all about reducing errors. But based on the crushing 28 to 5 score vs 2718 FIDE opposition, it would take a huge improvement even for a 2800 FIDE player to make a plus score, and I don't think that large an improvement is a realistic expectation unless someone puts up a million dollar prize for beating the bot. Even then, I think the bot will improve fast enough to head off any human attempt to beat it in blitz.Uri Blass wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 10:57 amI do not think it is clear that no human can win at 3+2 against the knight odd bot.lkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 7:57 amGM Anish Giri, World number 22 at FIDE 2731 (and number 3 just 8 years ago) apparently played 23 games with LeelaKnightOdds today at 3'2", without winning a single game, just six draws and 17 losses!! The player ID is Azzaro25, a GM with a 3040 Lichess rating (almost the very top, Magnus is higher, maybe one or two others), and although it doesn't show his name there, the same handle on chess.com is shown as Anish Giri, so there isn't much doubt. Wei Yi, top Chinese player, does the same thing, as (by chance) do I. This is the most incredible result yet. Combined with Awonder's 4 draws and six losses, the overall result at 3'2" of 10 draws and 23 losses against an average FIDE rating of 2718 works out to a FIDE performance rating of 3017, 186 elo points above Magnus Carlsen! So it's now pretty clear that no human can win a match from this bot at 3'2", and even 5'3" looks unlikely. Probably any future knight odds match with any human needs to be at Rapid or longer to be competitive.lkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 4:57 am A Rapid knight odds match between GM Awonder Liang and LeelaKnightOdds has been scheduled on LiChess for Dec.12. starting at 3 pm Eastern Standard Time (EST), or 9 pm CET. Initial time limit 10'5" (bullet chess for Leela!). Liang may request a change in the time limit after every game pair, based on results. Alternating b1/g1 odds. First player to win six games wins the match (same rule as Kasparov/Karpov 1984-1985, let's hope the FIDE president doesn't have to halt the match after 48 games!). If the match is not finished with the game in progress after 3 hours, we plan to resume on the next suitable afternoon.
GM Liang is rated 2687 FIDE, recently tied for second in the U.S. Championship, recently won the chess.com chess 960 championship, and has had several major successes this year, most notably winning the World Open.
He will be the highest rated player ever to take knight odds from an engine on record. So far no one has a plus or even score against LeelaKnightOdds at any time control, although one anonymous GM from Israel managed to score 4.5 to 5.5 at 20' + 5" recently, so a close match is likely.
Being better in chess is not equivalent to being better at knight odds and the experience of giri is not mainly in knight odds games.
Top humans who prepare may do better and not only because of opening preperation.
I believed that "the opportunity to beat the
minus some games" is essential. This way each human will adjust to a certain bot and a certain time control. I continue to believe that the great starlet, "Leelaqueenodds", in my opinion is the most attractive of all, to the point that in the portfolio There is a menu from a super grandmaster to time control 1 without increment, to many other levels of players.
Personally, I find it "the best", watching the strongest play at a minute's notice. For me it is simply sensational, and I think that this niche could definitely attract the best of the best of humans... it is the highest challenge and challenge and I think Carlsen and Nakamura would make the party very enjoyable for the fans and their fans. admirers, among whom is the subscriber who writes...
[Site "https://lichess.org/yeHOfPAR"]
[Date "2024.12.15"]
[White "LeelaQueenForKnight"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.15"]
[UTCTime "05:38:18"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2082"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "180+2"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "r1bqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]
1. d3 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. dxe4 e5 4. Nf3 Bd6 5. Nc3 Nf6 6. Bg5 h6 7. Bh4 Bg4 8. Nd2 Be6 9. O-O-O Qe7 10. f3 O-O-O 11. Bd3 Kb8 12. Rhf1 g5 13. Bf2 Rd7 14. g4 Rhd8 15. Bg3 c6 16. h4 Nh7 17. hxg5 hxg5 18. Nc4 Bxc4 19. Bxc4 Bc7 20. Rxd7 Rxd7 21. Nd1 Nf8 22. Ne3 f6 23. a3 Ng6 24. Nf5 Qd8 25. Be6 Rh7 26. Kb1 Nf4 27. Bb3 Qh8 28. Bxf4 gxf4 29. Ka2 Rh1 30. Rf2 Rh2 31. Rf1 Rh1 32. Rf2 Rh2 33. Rf1 Rh1 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
[pgn] Event "Casual blitz game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/ncEX8sqF"]
[Date "2024.12.14"]
[White "LeelaQueenForKnight"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.14"]
[UTCTime "23:34:47"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2082"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "180+2"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "r1bqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]
1. d4 d5 2. Bf4 e6 3. Nc3 f5 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. e3 Bd6 6. Ne5 c6 7. h4 Qc7 8. h5 Nd7 9. Nd3 Bxf4 10. Nxf4 Nf6 11. Nd3 Bd7 12. Ne2 O-O 13. Nef4 Rfe8 14. Be2 Re7 15. c3 Rae8 16. Ne5 Bc8 17. Nfd3 Nd7 18. f4 a6 19. g4 Nf8 20. h6 g6 21. b4 b5 22. a4 Qb6 23. Kd2 Nd7 24. Rhg1 Nxe5 25. Nxe5 Kh8 26. g5 Bb7 27. Ra2 Ra8 28. Rga1 Qd8 29. Ke1 Kg8 30. Kf2 Re8 31. Nd3 Qb6 32. Nc5 Qc7 33. a5 Re7 34. Nd3 Rae8 35. Ne5 Kh8 36. Ke1 Rg8 37. Kd2 Qd8 38. Kc2 Qe8 39. Kb3 Rc7 40. Nd3 Rc8 41. Nc5 Qe7 42. Kc2 Rb8 43. Kd2 Rge8 44. Nd3 Kg8 45. Ne5 Kh8 46. Rh1 Kg8 47. Raa1 Kh8 48. Rh2 Rg8 49. Rah1 Ra8 50. Ra1 Rab8 51. Ke1 Ra8 52. Kf2 Rab8 53. Kg3 Ra8 54. Rah1 Rab8 55. Kf2 Ra8 56. Ke1 Rab8 57. Kd2 Ra8 58. Kc2 Rab8 59. Kb3 Ra8 60. Kb2 Rab8 61. Kc2 Ra8 62. Kd2 Rab8 63. Ke1 Ra8 64. Kf2 Rab8 65. Kg3 Ra8 66. Nd3 Rab8 67. Kh4 Ra8 68. Rg2 Rab8 69. Kg3 Ra8 70. Kf2 Rab8 71. Ke1 Ra8 72. Kd2 Rab8 73. Kc2 Rgf8 74. Kb2 Ra8 75. Rhg1 Rab8 76. Ne5 Ra8 77. Rh2 Rab8 78. Kc2 Ra8 79. Kd2 Rab8 80. Rc1 Ra8 81. Rd1 Rab8 82. Rdh1 Ra8 83. Rc1 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
