Shredder 12 infos and release date

[solis]

Tough fight for second place but Naum is still #2

Engine Score Na De S-B
1: Naum 4.0.x64 17.0/30 ······· 10-6-14 221.00
2: Deep Shredder 12.x64 13.0/30 6-10-14 ······· 221.00

30 games played / Tournament finished
Name of the tournament: Arena games
Site/ Country: Q9550-XP64, United States
Level: Tournament 40/4
Hardware: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9550 @ 2.83GHz4x 3500 MHz with 4,096 MB Memory
Operating system: Microsoft Windows XP 64 Bit Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 3790)

[Graham Banks]

Tough fight for second place but Naum is still #2

There won't be a lot between Shredder 12 and Naum 4, but I suspect that Shredder might have a slight edge once the fuller picture emerges.

[IWB]

Hello

Tough fight for second place but Naum is still #2

There won't be a lot between Shredder 12 and Naum 4, but I suspect that Shredder might have a slight edge once the fuller picture emerges.

Yea, it is close, but I agree with Graham.

The initial thread started with my "ponder on" list, these is my much smaller Ponder off test:

Code: Select all

    Program                          Elo    +   -   Games   Score   Av.Op.  Draws

  1 Rybka 3mp 1T                   : 2999   15  14  2048    79.7 %   2761   26.1 %
  2 DS 12 x64 1T Mantra            : 2875   15  15  1408    62.5 %   2787   34.7 %
  3 Rybka 2.3.2a mp 1T             : 2874   14  14  1664    65.1 %   2765   36.0 %
  4 DS 12 x64 1T Default           : 2863   15  15  1408    60.7 %   2787   34.9 %
  5 Naum 4                         : 2853   12  12  2176    60.8 %   2777   38.1 %
  6 Rybka 2.2n2 mp 1T              : 2828   12  12  2048    58.0 %   2772   36.3 %
  7 Stockfish 1.4 JA 64bit 1T      : 2773   12  12  2048    48.0 %   2786   34.3 %
  8 Shredder Bonn 1T               : 2764   14  14  1536    48.6 %   2774   33.1 %
  9 Zappa Mexico II x64 1T         : 2749   12  12  2176    45.2 %   2783   37.5 %
 10 Onno-1-0-0 x64                 : 2746   12  12  2176    44.6 %   2783   35.9 %
 11 Deep Shredder 11 x64 1T        : 2742   15  15  1408    46.2 %   2769   32.1 %
 12 DSjeng WC2008 x64 1T           : 2719   12  12  2176    40.6 %   2784   32.5 %
 13 H12.1 MP 1T                    : 2717   12  12  2176    40.4 %   2785   34.2 %
 14 Toga II 1.4 beta5c BB          : 2715   12  12  2176    40.2 %   2785   34.3 %
 15 Glaurung 2.2 JA 1T             : 2701   13  13  1920    36.6 %   2796   30.3 %
 16 Fruit 05/11/03                 : 2671   15  15  1408    35.5 %   2775   35.9 %
 17 Bright-0.4a                    : 2637   17  17  1408    29.0 %   2793   25.6 %

As you can see Shredder 12 is just 10 Elo ahead of Naum here (forget the Mantra, that is a setting) even if the difference betweeen S12 and S11 is about equaly large. So for the first time, even if it is close, it seems that Ponder ON and OFF really matters. In Ponder off lists all Shredders seem to be shifted "a bit" down - and with this it becomes closer then.

I have a win vs Naum4 in "Ponder on" but I have a loss with about the same margin here in "Ponder off":

Code: Select all

4 DS 12 x64 1T              : 2863  1408 (+609,=492,-307), 60.7 %

Zappa Mexico II x64 1T        : 128 (+ 68,= 44,- 16), 70.3 %
DSjeng WC2008 x64 1T          : 128 (+ 68,= 37,- 23), 67.6 %
Onno-1-0-0 x64                : 128 (+ 68,= 44,- 16), 70.3 %
Naum 4                        : 128 (+ 30,= 59,- 39), 46.5 %
Toga II 1.4 beta5c BB         : 128 (+ 71,= 37,- 20), 69.9 %
Rybka 2.2n2 mp 1T             : 128 (+ 51,= 45,- 32), 57.4 %
H12.1 MP 1T                   : 128 (+ 68,= 52,-  8), 73.4 %
Glaurung 2.2 JA 1T            : 128 (+ 83,= 30,- 15), 76.6 %
Rybka 3mp 1T                  : 128 (+ 17,= 47,- 64), 31.6 %
Stockfish 1.4 JA 64bit 1T     : 128 (+ 48,= 46,- 34), 55.5 %
Rybka 2.3.2a mp 1T            : 128 (+ 37,= 51,- 40), 48.8 %

And now the little problem: 100 or 128 games vs a single engine are worth nothing! I think to play 20 or 30 games to see something is completly useless!

But as I consider Ponder ON as the real game and therefore wait for the SSDF list ... and YES, I might be biased.

Bye
Ingo

[yanquis1972]

i'm not sure. thinking about it now i wonder if engine-engine matches shouldn't be played with ponder off, at something like one minute/move. that would seem to best simulate real-world usage of engines by humans, & take away any advantages engiens might have with time management or ponder hits, which are 100% irrelevant to 99% of users.

[solis]

Hi Graham,
I added additional 10 game that brought disaster to Deep Shredder12.x64.Not a single win in 10 games so the difference now is 11 points.
Maybe more testing will bring DS 12 to second place but on my computer Naum 4.x64 is clearly second after Rybka 3.

Engine
Score Na De S-B
1: Naum 4.0.x64 25.5/40 ······· 17-6-17 369.75
2: Deep Shredder 12.x64 14.5/40 6-17-17 ······· 369.75

40 games played / Tournament finished
Name of the tournament: Arena games
Site/ Country: Q9550-XP64, United States
Level: Tournament 40/4
Hardware: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9550 @ 2.83GHz4x 3500 MHz with 4,096 MB Memory
Operating system: Microsoft Windows XP 64 Bit Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 3790)

[Graham Banks]

Hi Graham,
I added additional 10 game that brought disaster to Deep Shredder12.x64.Not a single win in 10 games so the difference now is 11 points.
Maybe more testing will bring DS 12 to second place but on my computer Naum 4.x64 is clearly second after Rybka 3.

Yeah - it will be a close call. Naum might just hold onto second spot. Give it another week or two and we'll all have a better picture.

Cheers,
Graham.

[perejaslav]

2 DS 12 x64 1T Mantra : 2875 15 15 1408 62.5 % 2787 34.7 %

What is the Mantra setting?