The "well meaning" witch hunters have caused much

[gerold]

First question who is BB.

Number 2, does he have Rybka code

I could go on but that would be a witch hunt.

Best,
Gerold.

P.S. If you believe this from an unknown source well what ever.

[Steve B]

The anonymity is the cause, not the reason, for many of the skepticism.

I would certainly judge the case differently if the authors were real persons that stepped forward. I'm sure many others would, too.

even if BB's report proves to be generally accepted by the programming community we can already see that "anonymity" will be the "last stand" by those convinced that Ippo is illegal come hell or high-water

anonymity now also seems to be the only attack on BB for his report so far

actually i remember reading a post here by Zach just yesterday where he said he met in person with BB and BB spoke with Kaufman about his report

oddly i can't find that post here anymore although i did search for it
i could be screwing up the search function though...

Squinting and Clicking Around Regards
Steve

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

if BB's report proves to be generally accepted by the programming community we see that "anonymity" will be the last stand of those convinced that Ippo is illegal come hell or high-water

I don't think the report answers the legality question definitely, so that statement makes no sense. I accept the report (as I said earlier) and still question the legality.

Attacking BB for being anonymous makes little sense either, anyway. Unless you can point out serious flaws in the analysis. Good luck with that.

[Steve B]

if BB's report proves to be generally accepted by the programming community we see that "anonymity" will be the last stand of those convinced that Ippo is illegal come hell or high-water

I don't think the report answers the legality question definitely, so that statement makes no sense.

Attacking BB for being anonymous makes little sense either, anyway. Unless you can point out serious flaws in the analysis. Good luck with that.

my point was,...
for some it will make no difference whats actually in the report
some have even said they will not even read it because its not signed
they are all set to raise the banner of Anonymity at Fort Alamo regardless of anything programming wise the report contains

i get the distinct impression that if Vas himself were to post that Ippo is not a clone..and that Rybka was derived from Fruit when it first went commercial ...if he himself would say this
there will be those that would actually argue with him that he is wrong

thats why i think its the programming community that needs to weigh in on this and not those who know little about programming
Steve

[gerold]

if BB's report proves to be generally accepted by the programming community we see that "anonymity" will be the last stand of those convinced that Ippo is illegal come hell or high-water

I don't think the report answers the legality question definitely, so that statement makes no sense.

Attacking BB for being anonymous makes little sense either, anyway. Unless you can point out serious flaws in the analysis. Good luck with that.

my point was,...
for some it will make no difference whats actually in the report
some have even said they will not even read it because its not signed
they are all set to raise the banner of Anonymity at Fort Alamo regardless of anything programming wise the report contains

i get the distinct impression that if Vas himself were to post that Ippo is not a clone..and that Rybka was derived from Fruit when it first went commercial ...if he himself would say this
there will be those that would actually argue with him that he is wrong

thats why i think its the programming community that needs to weigh in on this and not those who know little about programming
Steve

IF he posted this without any source or proof why believe him
or anybody else who post all this stuff without any proof.
Vas is a real person all the rest are unknowns hiding their ids Until i can see real names and proof from source it
is all just talk.

Best,
Gerold.

[Steve B]

if BB's report proves to be generally accepted by the programming community we see that "anonymity" will be the last stand of those convinced that Ippo is illegal come hell or high-water

I don't think the report answers the legality question definitely, so that statement makes no sense.

Attacking BB for being anonymous makes little sense either, anyway. Unless you can point out serious flaws in the analysis. Good luck with that.

my point was,...
for some it will make no difference whats actually in the report
some have even said they will not even read it because its not signed
they are all set to raise the banner of Anonymity at Fort Alamo regardless of anything programming wise the report contains

i get the distinct impression that if Vas himself were to post that Ippo is not a clone..and that Rybka was derived from Fruit when it first went commercial ...if he himself would say this
there will be those that would actually argue with him that he is wrong

thats why i think its the programming community that needs to weigh in on this and not those who know little about programming
Steve

IF he posted this without any source or proof why believe him
or anybody else who post all this stuff without any proof.
Vas is a real person all the rest are unknowns hiding their ids Until i can see real names and proof from source it
is all just talk.

Best,
Gerold.

you have met Vas in person?
then how do you know he exists?
because others have met him
Zach has met BB
he said so yesterday
i imagine he probably knows his full name
BB has spoken to Kaufman
Kaufman probably asked his full name
im guessing he doesn't want his full name all over the internet because he will be besieged by zealot nut jobs like i was

Steve
P.S. still cant find the post where Zach said all this
sigh..

[Milos]

The "GCP is a professional or not" thing is in another thread

Illegal software copying has always been a business threat to commercial engines, it does not mean they never had value.

Anyway, I've given factual statements from the data we have. The one who keeps attacking people personally because he doesn't like the points they make is you.

I didn't have intention to put you in the same bag with Harvay (even though it sounded that way), except that you both come from the "commercial" side.
Simply put, I would certainly treat your opinion differently if you didn't have any commercial interest, in the same way you would treat Ippo authors differently if they were not anonymous. I'm not saying you are biased (which in Harvay's case is evident), just that some potential conflict of interest might exist.

[gerold]

if BB's report proves to be generally accepted by the programming community we see that "anonymity" will be the last stand of those convinced that Ippo is illegal come hell or high-water

I don't think the report answers the legality question definitely, so that statement makes no sense.

Attacking BB for being anonymous makes little sense either, anyway. Unless you can point out serious flaws in the analysis. Good luck with that.

my point was,...
for some it will make no difference whats actually in the report
some have even said they will not even read it because its not signed
they are all set to raise the banner of Anonymity at Fort Alamo regardless of anything programming wise the report contains

i get the distinct impression that if Vas himself were to post that Ippo is not a clone..and that Rybka was derived from Fruit when it first went commercial ...if he himself would say this
there will be those that would actually argue with him that he is wrong

thats why i think its the programming community that needs to weigh in on this and not those who know little about programming
Steve

IF he posted this without any source or proof why believe him
or anybody else who post all this stuff without any proof.
Vas is a real person all the rest are unknowns hiding their ids Until i can see real names and proof from source it
is all just talk.

Best,
Gerold.

you have met Vas in person?
then how do you know he exists?
because others have met him
Zach has met BB
he said so yesterday
i imagine he probably knows his full name
BB has spoken to Kaufman
Kaufman probably asked his full name
im guessing he doesn't want his full name all over the internet because he will be besieged by zealot nut jobs like i was

Steve
P.S. still cant find the post where Zach said all this
sigh..

I guess BB has the source code of Rybka
You a zeallot nut job give me a break.

Best,
Gerold.

P.S. Who would you pick as your running mates in the
elections in July.
P.S.2. you got my vote.

[frcha]

Its possible that at least one of the authors used to be on the Rybka programming team -- the engine by itself is legal but the author might have signed some agreement preventing him from using the same ideas in another program independently. In that case Vas can sue him if he reveals himself.

[Michael Sherwin]

I don't see where you get that Ippolit has nothing to do with R3 ... I mean really. When BB was posting in rybkaforum I had several interactions with him there and he seemed to definitely think that Ippolit had something to do with R3. As a matter of fact he said something like "I find it impossible to think that the "cloners" didn't reverse-engineer R3". I also remember reading here that Zack thinks that Ippolit strength comes from Rybka 3. So please don't start this BS that Ippolit is an original engine that had nothing to do with R3. With regard to BB many posts on rybkaforum, it is clear that he thought that Ippolit came from R3 but he left open the possibility that it could have been legal because it was through disassembly and not exact copying. So the issue should be whether Ippolit is a legal derivative of R3 or if there is not enough difference and thus it should be labeled a clone ... so please stop disseminating BS that it has "nothing" to do with R3 as that is clearly not BB's opinion nor Zack's.

In his report BB said:

1.) over and over again that 'this is similar between the two engines, but it can be found in open source programs

2.) Rybka specific code/tables are almost completely missing from Ippolit

3.) he only found one oddity that exist between the two engines code that might be considered to be a 'smoking gun'. And he admitted that it was rather meaningless as it was redundant code that really didn't do anything.

4.) he pointed out a MOUNTAIN of dissimilarities between the two programs where things were just not done the same way.

BB has obviously greatly modified his opinion about the origins of Ippolit since he has finished his investigation. You of course have accepted from him his initial unsubstantiated feelings that he himself has proven to be false. You do not want to understand that careful investigation has changed his mind. You would rather accuse me of spouting off BS. barracuda.