TCEC Elite Match - Season 2 (150m + 30s) LIVE! starts 12/4

Discussion of computer chess matches and engine tournaments.

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beram
Posts: 1187
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: TCEC Elite Match - Season 2 - GAME COMMENTS -

Post by beram »

Martin Thoresen wrote:Robert,

Yes we were wondering where you went after you stopped by in the final round of TCEC A. :)

I agree with Bram though, it seems Rybka 4.1 played "better" than 4.0 even though the scores in the two EMs are somewhat the same.

Best,
Martin

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[size=7]
Martin Thoresens TCEC6 EM2 match; very long TC on superfast PC (Fritzmark = 39; Rybkabench = 1013) 				
the programs regularly reaches depths of 21 -26 ply				
	150 min+30 sec per move 			
	Houdini 1.5a 64-bit 6CPU (H15)		Deep Rybka 4.1 64-bit 6CPU (R41)	

Gm	Programs	Opening	Result	Report
1	R41 -H15	Kholmov Variation, Ruy Lopez	1-0	A nice, clean win by R41. Right out of the opening he presses black into a position where H15 must defend. Rybka's attack on the black king finaally results in a material plus rook for bishop which is won by R41
2	H15 - R41	Kholmov Variation, Ruy Lopez	1/2-1/2 	R41 with black chooses another and better opening setup. By after exchanging bishops on b3 holding the position closed with 11 ..Qc8. After blacks pawn push 18. ..d5 in the centre he has solved his opening problems already
3	R41 -H15	Closed; Chigorin Variation, Sicilian; B23	1/2-1/2 	in a Sozin, H15 with black plays like Polugaevski in his best days. He let white come with his kingside pawns to g5 and f6, while bringing his pawn from h7 to h6 and h5 and after e6-e5 on move 23 the white  attack has stopped and the positional plus for black becomes clear. The halfopen b-file, bishoppair and open kingside of his opponent give him the better play. H15 wins the white Queen for a rook and bishop, but unfortunately for H15 the position of white cannot be broken, so a draw is the result
4	H15 - R41	Closed; Chigorin Variation, Sicilian; B23	1/2-1/2 	Bringing his bishop to f4 after exchanging knights on c6 on move 11 doesnt gave H15 anything to hope for. In the middlegame R4 gains kind of positional plus, but with only queens and two minor pieces B+N,  H15 manages to fled and hold the draw in an ending Q2p vs Q3p for R4
5	R41 -H15	Slav Defense; Czech Defense, QGD; D10	1-0	In this line white can almost certainly gain a won position as these programs proove in the games. Up to move 23 they play the same moves and both gave white 0,6 - 0,8 better. It is the only opening position which spoils the final standings, but it has to be mentioned.
6	H15 - R41	Slav Defense; Czech Defense, QGD; D10	1-0	see comment in game above
7	R41 -H15	French, C13	1/2-1/2 	originaly play of H15 as black gives him an edge, side pawns h3 and a5 are used for effective counterplay. The opposite coloured bishop saves Rybka in an ending being a pawn down
8	H15 - R41	French, C13	0-1	A very convincing win by Rybka, most instructive game sofar. Perhaps already whites choice 17 f4 was questionable. After that move, black reorganises effectively with Kg7, Bf6 and Rhe8
9	R41 -H15	Tal Variation, Caro-Kann	1-0	H15 plays kind of schwindle by offering his h5 pawn at move 25.  His 21 …b5 could be seen as a mistake already. 21..Re8 as expected by Rybka would have been the better option. After winning the pawn the counterplay is neatly neutralised by R4, so already another clean win by Rybka
10	H15 - R41	Tal Variation, Caro-Kann	1/2-1/2 	after the opening H15 only has some pressure on isolated e5 pawn. A draw was never a problem for black
11	R41 -H15	Rosenthal Variation, QGA	1/2-1/2 	a not so interesting draw
12	H15 - R41	Rosenthal Variation, QGA	1/2-1/2 	a more interesting draw after that H15 offers a piece 19 Nxe6 - it becomes interesting. Rybka refuses and after that move it is Rybka  who has the slightly better position, resulting in a simple rook ending draw
13	R41 -H15	Rosenthal Variation, Three Knights	1/2-1/2 	H15 draws without difficulty
14	H15 - R41	Rosenthal Variation, Three Knights	1/2-1/2 	with white H15 plays differently with 18 Nd4 - and gains quickly  after that a positional plus, resulting in an almost won position, from which Rybka narrowly escapes 
15	R41 -H15	Closed Defense, Ruy Lopez; C84	1/2-1/2 	Rather dull game, but Rybka manoevres himself to a very good position. In the ending without queens it is only for the rather akwardly placed knights on d7 and c8 that H15 manages to keep the white rook on b7, of the important a7 and b8 squares. The position is also inpenetrable so white cannot improve or come into the black position with his pieces, so the game result is a draw
16	H15 - R41	Closed Defense, Ruy Lopez; C84	1/2-1/2 	with white H15 doesnt get anything real , although many human would have get very nervous of the batterie queen and bishop on c2 and b1, from his part though Rybka plays better and gets a slight plus after nice combination giving his bishop on d5 on move 40 ..g6 blocking h7. After 41 Rxd5 - Qe3 ! he penetrates on the kingside securing effective counterplay, resulting in a draw
17	R41 -H15	Polish; Orangutan; Sokolsky; Hunt; 1. b4	1/2-1/2 	R41 gains the bishoppair but it proves to be not very useful, although R41 tries to prove his eval of +1 pawn for quit a lot of moves
18	H15 - R41	Polish; Orangutan; Sokolsky; Hunt; 1.b4	1-0	With white H15 plays very well in the middlegame; opening up the position with bishops from the flank on a3 and h3 he breaks with g4 pawnpush and gains positional plus. The white rook on c3 prevents free c-pawn to move and later on helps in the kingside attack which is played remarkably simple and straightforward to a win by H15
19	R41 -H15	Sicilian Najdorf with 6 g3	0-1	A very  difficult najdorf game, the nasty black pawn on h3 gives H15 enough counterplay, when Rybka keeps on searching for play he is already walking behind the facts and it is instructive to see H15 outplaying Rybka in a convincing way right from move 40, by invading with his rooks on 7th row and his knight on d4 his attack becomes unstoppable
20	H15 - R41	Sicilian Najdorf with 6 g3	1/2-1/2 	With white H15 with 13. b3 instead of Nc3 , also doesnt succeed in creating an openings advantage. So a draw result 
21	R41 -H15	Aljechin, B03	1/2-1/2 	Very interesting drawn game, where H15 most creatively searches for counterplay offering his rook for counterplay with his bishoppair. This ultimately leads to a position where he draws with two bishops two pawns against the white rook with three pawns
22	H15 - R41	Aljechin, B03	1-0	Rybka gives a knight for two pawns already on move 14. He has serious counterplay, but on this high level of play, H15 neutralises as a real computerprogram and after 30 moves both programs give white more than +1
23	R41 -H15	King's Indian Attack; Reti; Zukertort; A05	0-1	An almost inexplicably computergame. Only after the very nice pawn break 148. ..e5! - it becomes clear that H15 with black is going to win - - thanks to his free d-pawn and attacking chances on the king
24	H15 - R41	King's Indian Attack; Reti; Zukertort; A05	1/2-1/2 	interesting position after move 34. Bxb4 - H15 has one extra pawn but his pawnstructure (5 against 4) is splintered so for real it is only black with the knight and heavy pieces, who has the better prospective. The game although dwells into a draw, because it has enough tactical resources for white to equalize
25	R41 -H15	Dutch Variation, Slav; D18	1/2-1/2 	a not so interesting draw
26	H15 - R41	Dutch Variation, Slav; D18	0-1	opening up position with 15 e4 seems to be to hasty for H15. Rybka counters effectively winning a pawn on a5. The bishoppair gives H15 to little real counterplay and after move 67 both programs gave +1 for black. Before that H15 is to optimistic for himself as white, by giving black for long time only +0,2 whereas Rybka judges more realistic +0,6 for his extra pawn
27	R41 -H15	Nimzo Indian, classical	1/2-1/2 	black H15 holds the balance he gives a pawn, but by splintering the white pawns he has sufficient counterplay. After he regains his pawn, the position becomes ttally equal
28	H15 - R41	Nimzo Indian, classical	1/2-1/2 	With black Rybka chooses another setup, giving H15 the bishoppair, after H15 offers the a-pawn Rybka takes it but H15 gets play against the black king on the queenside. At move 27 he regains the pawn and gets a plus of more than one pawn. Again the opposite coloured bishop gave Rybka enough ressources and although giving white more than 1,35 pawn better, he draws quit easily
29	R41 -H15	Modern Benoni	1/2-1/2 	Tactical complications out of the opening doesnt lead to imbalances. The game stays dynamically balanced. Draw is inevitably result.
30	H15 - R41	Modern Benoni	1/2-1/2 	In the reversed game, also a lot of tactics. This leads to a material plus of one pawn for Rybka as black. After the smoke has rised in the resulting endgame with two rooks 3 pawns against two rooks 4 pawns, H15 technically saves it to a draw. A somehow fortunate escape by H15, who was on the edge of loosing 
31	R41 -H15	Slav Pawn Game	1/2-1/2 	Nice defence by H15. Rybkas position seemed substantially better, but H15 succeeded in instructive defending and simplifying the game into two pieces 4 pawns against rook with 5 pawns, where the rook was not worse because of the characteristics of the position
32	H15 - R41	Slav Pawn Game	1-0	at move 16 H15 wins a piece but Rybka has good counterplay and gets a pawn up to a2 where he has to be safeguarded by the white rook on a1. As more often occurs in computerchess this counterplay declines after icecoldly antidote play by the defender, so at move 40 the evals rise above +1 for H15 being a piece up and a conclusively win for him becomes inevitable
33	R41 -H15	Alapin Defense, Ruy Lopez	1/2-1/2 	Again an early pawn sac on move 12 by H15 for active counterplay. The sac is fully understandable and justified. After that a dynamically balanced game ends in draw
34	H15 - R41	Alapin Defense, Ruy Lopez	1-0	With white H15 gets some pressure and better position right out of the opening. Black than has some holes in his kingside a doubled pawn on b7 and a backward pawn on d6. After 26 moves both see white more than +1
35	R41 -H15	Petrosian Variation, QID	1/2-1/2 	Slightly better position for white out of the opening. The most crucial position (+0,37) arose at move 31 but H15 saves to a draw 
36	H15 - R41	Petrosian Variation, QID	1/2-1/2 	Good play by Rybka gives him the better of the game where after H15 must play for a draw, which he managed to do so
37	R41 -H15	Sicilian, Scheveninger	0-1	H15 plays very well in middlegame but Rybkas attack on black king gives him good counter chances. The ending with a rather unuseful extra double black pawn on f6 seems drawn, but after H15 has managed to play his pawn forward to f5, his position with knight for bishop and both queen and rook suddenly becomes very good and winning
38	H15 - R41	Sicilian, Scheveninger	1-0	With white H15 manages first and onely time to win from both sides of the board. After Rybka exchanges pawns on f4, H15 has an edge because of open f-file. Shortly after that Rybka places his knight on e5 , which is also very typical for these Sicilian positions. H15 places his black bishop on d4 and after a lot of  manoevring suddenly sacs a pawn in the centre on move 37 with 37 Nd5! Rybka didnt see that one coming. After that H15 has the bishoppair pointing at the black king and he forces Rybka to weaken his position with 40. ..g6 after which follows the thematic 41. h5 and after that Rybka is eaten up by Houdini. I especially like this game and it shows the strong tactical points of Houdini at his bests
39	R41 -H15	Nimzovich Attack, Petroff	1/2-1/2 	Rybka wins a rather meaningless pawn at move 22. In the resulting game with both rooks on the board Rybka cannot proove anything more than +0,4 so all seems to stay within drawing margins
40	H15 - R41	Nimzovich Attack, Petroff	1/2-1/2 	with white H15 squeezes something out of the position. Getting the better bishop and trying to break through. But this time Rybka defends very well and keeps it all within margins

				so overall a 9-5 win by 26 draws
				after removing games 5 and 6 it would be 8-4 win with 26 draws, which is a 55,26 % winning percentage by Houdini
				best games: game 1 and 8 by Rybka and game 18 and 38 by Houdini[/size]
S.Taylor
Posts: 8514
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: Jerusalem Israel

Re: TCEC Elite Match - Season 2 (150m + 30s) LIVE! starts 12

Post by S.Taylor »

Houdini wrote:Hello Bram,
beram wrote:R4.1 played better than R4.
Did she? When I only look at the scores (haven't played any of the games yet), in the final 30 games of this match H1.5 beat R4.1 by the score of 18.5-11.5 (+8 -1 =21), that's an even more pronounced result than the first Elite Match with R4.

I'm always surprised that people so easily say that "R4.1 is better than R4 at long TC" when the Rybka team itself announced R4.1 as a bug fix release without impact on the strength.
beram wrote:Will we see an approved Houdini in season 3 ?
There will certainly be no Houdini 2.0 release before September, so probably not.

Cheers,
Robert
It looks to me like for the first time EVER, a machine is playing absolute world-class GM chess.
I get this impression by just watching the games on chessbomb, which is all i did.
No one doubts Rybka 4 or 4.1 as being very strong, and previously, well above all the rest. But the top quality moves made by Houdini 15.1, i believe, have never been seen before from an engine.
Therefore, i honestly hope only, that Houdini 2 should be atleast exactly the same but added to very very carefully, in order not to unballance what it already is!
I have never felt this way about a next upgrade to an engine, before.