The Stockfish ELO problem

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Rebel
Posts: 7429
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:04 pm
Full name: Ed Schröder

Re: The Stockfish ELO problem

Post by Rebel »

jkominek wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:19 am
Jouni wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:34 pm There is interesting experiment https://www.melonimarco.it/en/2021/03/0 ... -of-nodes/ (no date). According to test SF reach practically max ELO 3500 after 10M nodes only. 1 second in modern CPU! After that only marginal gain.
I like his blog post, and have conducted a very similar experiment myself using fixed node counts (not including LC0) updated to Stockfish 15. My measurements reveal the same relationship between the NNUE and HCE curves, with HCE almost reaching NNUE at 256m nodes. I plan to push the node count over a billion to see how much the gap closes down under convergence. The notable conclusion is that the evaluation net does not gift Stockfish an appreciably higher asymptote. What it does dramatically accomplish is assist in finding good moves at a much much lower node count, hence time, even at a 2:1 nps ratio. The relationship of nodes/time vs. Elo is pushed leftward.

Also worthwhile is his companion blog post. https://www.melonimarco.it/en/2021/10/0 ... ntium-90/

His rating list is notable for using classical time control of 40mv/120min (not seconds), and in anchoring the scale to human-computer matches. Included in his calibration pool are Rebel matches. Ed S. had the rare privilege of playing Anand back in the 90s.
https://www.rebel.nl/anand.htm.

Those were quite the distinctive cartoons, btw. I've long wondered what the background story is behind the Rebel cartoons.
The cartoons are from José Diaz, some links:

https://www.rebel.nl/diaz.htm
https://www.chess.com/article/view/chess-verdict
https://www.chessprogramming.org/Cartoons
https://m.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a ... 405&type=3
90% of coding is debugging, the other 10% is writing bugs.
jkominek
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:33 am
Full name: John Kominek

Re: The Stockfish ELO problem

Post by jkominek »

Rebel wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:28 am
jkominek wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:19 am Those were quite the distinctive cartoons, btw. I've long wondered what the background story is behind the Rebel cartoons.
The cartoons are from José Diaz, some links:

https://www.rebel.nl/diaz.htm
https://www.chess.com/article/view/chess-verdict
https://www.chessprogramming.org/Cartoons
https://m.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a ... 405&type=3
Ha! Here's a good one, in simple black and white:
That's you walking towards the bottom left, wearing a sweater with zig-zag patterning. Heading towards the right side corner, an on-point likeness of Frans Morsch, too. Neither of you appear overly impressed by the commotion. Perhaps Mark Lefler is not as good an amateur magician as he attempts.