Moderator: Ras
Hi Richard,pijl wrote:You should be the last person commenting on this ... for obvious reasons.
I always considered the WCCC as a special championship where programmers used their own creations to compete with eachother. It seems I'm wrong there.
Perhaps I should save myself the days off from work and the hassle with the logistics at home and cancel my participation.
My joy to participate in this tournament is gone.
Richard.
I don't understand the obvious reasons. Don't you think Thoma's clarification on the permission was helpfull to stop wrong assumptions? I think with the confirmed permission of Fabien as well, it is ok that they are allowed to participate. I have some concerns as well and I can feel with you, but it would be a pity though, if you seriously consider cancelation.pijl wrote:You should be the last person commenting on this ... for obvious reasons.
I always considered the WCCC as a special championship where programmers used their own creations to compete with eachother. It seems I'm wrong there.
Perhaps I should save myself the days off from work and the hassle with the logistics at home and cancel my participation.
My joy to participate in this tournament is gone.
Richard.
The obvious reason is that Thomas started with Fruit himself and is therefor in no position to lecture those that created their engine all by themselves ...Gerd Isenberg wrote:I don't understand the obvious reasons. Don't you think Thoma's clarification on the permission was helpfull to stop wrong assumptions? I think with the confirmed permission of Fabien as well, it is ok that they are allowed to participate. I have some concerns as well and I can feel with you, but it would be a pity though, if you seriously consider cancelation.pijl wrote:You should be the last person commenting on this ... for obvious reasons.
I always considered the WCCC as a special championship where programmers used their own creations to compete with eachother. It seems I'm wrong there.
Perhaps I should save myself the days off from work and the hassle with the logistics at home and cancel my participation.
My joy to participate in this tournament is gone.
Richard.
I do not doubt their contribution in gridchess. And they probably made a nice job out of it. But to me it sounds like dropping (to use that name again) Carl Lewis next to the leader in the Marathon to run the final 100 meters. IMHO that is not fair competition, even if Carl runs that 100 meters by himself.Gerd Isenberg wrote:The issue concerning own and original work seems debatable at least and that will be an item on the agenda of the players meeting before the first round will start. Ulf made Toga, the Fruit improvements of Thomas, parallel per node - and with all his parallel Hydra knowledege made these cluster with Kai's idea work. Kai devised the positive pondering approach, explained in the ICGAJ. Quite some original work.
What is the meaning of own creation.pijl wrote:You should be the last person commenting on this ... for obvious reasons.
I always considered the WCCC as a special championship where programmers used their own creations to compete with eachother. It seems I'm wrong there.
Perhaps I should save myself the days off from work and the hassle with the logistics at home and cancel my participation.
My joy to participate in this tournament is gone.
Richard.
Hi Uri,Uri Blass wrote:What is the meaning of own creation.pijl wrote:You should be the last person commenting on this ... for obvious reasons.
I always considered the WCCC as a special championship where programmers used their own creations to compete with eachother. It seems I'm wrong there.
Perhaps I should save myself the days off from work and the hassle with the logistics at home and cancel my participation.
My joy to participate in this tournament is gone.
Richard.
Does it have to be creation of a single person?
Are you going to be against gridchess even if it is called by the name fruit ot fruitCrafty and Fabien participate with it and mention the other programmers as team members?
Uri
My gosh, are we going to pass this capital sin to Thomas descendants too? That horse is dead and already playing an harp in horses' heaven, please stop beating it!pijl wrote:The obvious reason is that Thomas started with Fruit himself and is therefor in no position to lecture those that created their engine all by themselves ...
It has nothing to do with being the creation of one person. There are multiple programs around that are created by more than one author. Even the commercial Fruit has (as far as I know) two authors with Fabien and Ryan.Uri Blass wrote: What is the meaning of own creation.
Does it have to be creation of a single person?
Are you going to be against gridchess even if it is called by the name fruit ot fruitCrafty and Fabien participate with it and mention the other programmers as team members?
This would be serialisation but no parallelism. They don't switch engines between game states yet. It is more like Carl Lewis, Waldemar Cierpinski and Gilles Schaeffer have to run the whole 42,195 km parallel as team and have to arrive in commonpijl wrote: I do not doubt their contribution in gridchess. And they probably made a nice job out of it. But to me it sounds like dropping (to use that name again) Carl Lewis next to the leader in the Marathon to run the final 100 meters. IMHO that is not fair competition, even if Carl runs that 100 meters by himself.
Richard.
maybe you simply read what Andreas was writing: There is definitely a big difference between real teams (e.g. like Spike) and patchwork like GridChess. Of course scientifically GridChess might be very interesting and I have no doubts about Kai's contribution. But the day for the scientifical stuff is the "Advances In Computer Chess" meeting and not the tournament itself. Like Richard I understand the WCCC as a competition between programmers and teams. And GridChess has a lot of doping inside which in my opinion is not following the original spirit of such tournaments.Uri Blass wrote:I understand your point but I do not agree.
I think that a chess program can have more than one author.
What happens in case that some commercial program participates when one author wrote special evaluation for pawn endgame another author wrote special evaluation for rook endgames and the same for many type of endgames.
Do you think that we should not allow this program to compete?