Don Dailey you need to teach underpromotion to Komodo!

[pichy]

I will probably expand the under-promotion abilities in Komodo for the next version.

That is a great decision, I will probably purchase your next version just to play around with it, not to match it versus other engines.

Don Dailey you should teach Underpromotion to Komodo since your engine does not realize the White to play could win if it promote to a Rook instead of a Queen, like I say before Engines without tablebase are NOT as good as Top GM or even Master with the knowledge of the famous Saavedra endgame study. Here your program think that it is a draw after depth search 33 and I decided to play against it and mated it.

[d]8/8/1KP5/3r4/8/8/8/k7 w - - 0 1
FEN: 8/8/1KP5/3r4/8/8/8/k7 w - - 0 1

Komodo3-64:
1 00:00 52 520,000 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4
2 00:00 203 203,111 +1.40 c6-c7 Ka1-b2 c7-c8Q
3 00:00 620 206,648 +1.44 c6-c7 Rd5-d2 c7-c8Q Rd2-b2+ Kb6-a5
4 00:00 1,043 260,768 +0.01 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1
5 00:00 1,278 319,523 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q
5 00:00 1,284 256,745 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q
6 00:00 1,629 271,476 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q
6 00:00 1,635 233,572 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q
7 00:00 2,290 254,422 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q
7 00:00 2,296 229,594 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q
8 00:00 3,374 281,142 +0.16 c6-c7
8 00:00 5,199 346,614 +0.63 c6-c7
8 00:00 6,804 378,007 +1.34 c6-c7
8 00:00 17,827 379,290 +1.78 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-h8+ Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Kb2-c2 Qh8-d4 Rc3-b3+ Kb5-c5
8 00:00 17,835 371,559 +1.78 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-h8+ Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Kb2-c2 Qh8-d4 Rc3-b3+ Kb5-c5
9 00:00 32,693 510,819 +1.79 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-c4 Rd3-c3 Qc4-e2+ Kb2-b3 Qe2-d2 Rc3-c4 Qd2-d1+ Kb3-a3 Qd1-e1 Ka3-b2
9 00:00 32,701 503,088 +1.79 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-c4 Rd3-c3 Qc4-e2+ Kb2-b3 Qe2-d2 Rc3-c4 Qd2-d1+ Kb3-a3 Qd1-e1 Ka3-b2
10 00:00 63,316 666,475 +1.81 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-c4 Rd3-c3 Qc4-d5 Kb2-a3 Qd5-d4 Ka3-b2 Kb6-a5 Kb2-c2 Qd4-e5
10 00:00 63,324 659,620 +1.81 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-c4 Rd3-c3 Qc4-d5 Kb2-a3 Qd5-d4 Ka3-b2 Kb6-a5 Kb2-c2 Qd4-e5
11 00:00 122,183 749,588 +1.84 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-e6 Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Kb2-a3 Qe6-d6+ Ka3-b2 Qd6-d5 Kb2-a3 Qd5-d4 Rc3-b3+ Kb5-c5
11 00:00 122,191 745,069 +1.84 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-e6 Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Kb2-a3 Qe6-d6+ Ka3-b2 Qd6-d5 Kb2-a3 Qd5-d4 Rc3-b3+ Kb5-c5
12 00:00 310,610 949,878 +1.89 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-h8+ Kb2-b3 Qh8-e5 Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Rc3-d3 Qe5-f5 Kb3-c3 Qf5-c5+ Kc3-d2 Qc5-f2+ Kd2-c1 Kb5-b6 Rd3-b3+ Kb6-c5
12 00:00 310,618 947,003 +1.89 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-h8+ Kb2-b3 Qh8-e5 Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Rc3-d3 Qe5-f5 Kb3-c3 Qf5-c5+ Kc3-d2 Qc5-f2+ Kd2-c1 Kb5-b6 Rd3-b3+ Kb6-c5
13 00:00 375,703 973,324 +1.89 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-h8+ Kb2-b3 Qh8-e5 Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Rc3-d3 Qe5-f5 Kb3-c3 Qf5-c5+ Kc3-d2 Qc5-f2+ Kd2-c1 Qf2-f4+ Rd3-d2 Qf4-c4+ Rd2-c2 Qc4-d4
13 00:00 375,711 970,826 +1.89 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-h8+ Kb2-b3 Qh8-e5 Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Rc3-d3 Qe5-f5 Kb3-c3 Qf5-c5+ Kc3-d2 Qc5-f2+ Kd2-c1 Qf2-f4+ Rd3-d2 Qf4-c4+ Rd2-c2 Qc4-d4
14 00:00 696,868 1,035,464 +1.73 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+
14 00:00 700,879 1,036,802 +1.26 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+
14 00:00 704,063 1,035,386 +0.55 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+
14 00:00 715,763 1,037,336 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
14 00:00 715,771 1,037,348 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
15 00:00 729,837 1,039,654 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
15 00:00 729,845 1,039,665 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
16 00:00 756,853 1,046,823 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
16 00:00 756,861 1,045,386 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
17 00:00 790,306 1,060,812 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
17 00:00 790,314 1,059,401 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
18 00:00 837,605 1,076,613 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
18 00:00 837,613 1,075,239 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
19 00:00 903,764 1,102,151 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
19 00:00 903,772 1,100,817 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
20 00:00 1,017,902 1,137,320 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
20 00:00 1,017,910 1,137,329 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
21 00:01 1,163,781 1,180,305 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
21 00:01 1,163,789 1,179,118 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
22 00:01 1,395,637 1,233,984 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
22 00:01 1,395,645 1,233,991 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
23 00:01 1,719,305 1,292,710 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
23 00:01 1,719,313 1,291,745 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
24 00:01 2,177,298 1,339,052 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
24 00:01 2,177,306 1,338,232 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
25 00:02 2,906,827 1,394,830 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
25 00:02 2,906,835 1,394,164 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
26 00:02 4,088,550 1,453,965 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
26 00:02 4,088,558 1,453,451 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
27 00:04 7,522,955 1,527,193 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
27 00:04 7,522,963 1,526,885 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
28 00:08 12,686,734 1,573,060 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
28 00:08 12,686,742 1,572,866 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
29 00:15 24,621,324 1,616,845 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
29 00:15 24,621,332 1,616,739 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
30 00:32 55,173,795 1,684,130 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
30 00:32 55,173,803 1,684,130 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
31 00:54 91,575,585 1,677,823 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
31 00:54 91,575,593 1,677,792 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
32 02:37 271,414,833 1,723,651 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
32 02:37 271,414,841 1,723,640 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
33 07:23 778,049,905 1,753,849 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
33 07:23 778,067,178 1,753,829 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4

====================================================================================================================

And here is the famous Saavedra ending study game that I played versus Komodo:

[Event " Rook vs Pawn-Ending"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.03.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Pichy"]
[Black "Komodo3-64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3000"]
[WhiteElo "2200"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/1KP5/3r4/8/8/8/k7 w - - 0 1"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. c7 Rd6+ 2. Kb5 Rd5+ 3. Kb4 Rd4+ 4. Kb3 Rd3+ 5. Kc2 Rd4 6. c8=R Rd2+ 7.
Kxd2 Kb2 8. Rc3 Kb1 9. Rb3+ Ka1 10. Kc3 Ka2 {Black resigns} 11. Kc2 Ka1
{Black resigns} 12. Ra3# *

[Don]

I will probably expand the under-promotion abilities in Komodo for the next version.

That is a great decision, I will probably purchase your next version just to play around with it, not to match it versus other engines.

We have already made that change so that it will appear in the next release version.

Don Dailey you should teach Underpromotion to Komodo since your engine does not realize the White to play could win if it promote to a Rook instead of a Queen, like I say before Engines without tablebase are NOT as good as Top GM or even Master with the knowledge of the famous Saavedra endgame study. Here your program think that it is a draw after depth search 33 and I decided to play against it and mated it.

[d]8/8/1KP5/3r4/8/8/8/k7 w - - 0 1
FEN: 8/8/1KP5/3r4/8/8/8/k7 w - - 0 1

Komodo3-64:
1 00:00 52 520,000 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4
2 00:00 203 203,111 +1.40 c6-c7 Ka1-b2 c7-c8Q
3 00:00 620 206,648 +1.44 c6-c7 Rd5-d2 c7-c8Q Rd2-b2+ Kb6-a5
4 00:00 1,043 260,768 +0.01 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1
5 00:00 1,278 319,523 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q
5 00:00 1,284 256,745 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q
6 00:00 1,629 271,476 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q
6 00:00 1,635 233,572 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q
7 00:00 2,290 254,422 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q
7 00:00 2,296 229,594 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q
8 00:00 3,374 281,142 +0.16 c6-c7
8 00:00 5,199 346,614 +0.63 c6-c7
8 00:00 6,804 378,007 +1.34 c6-c7
8 00:00 17,827 379,290 +1.78 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-h8+ Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Kb2-c2 Qh8-d4 Rc3-b3+ Kb5-c5
8 00:00 17,835 371,559 +1.78 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-h8+ Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Kb2-c2 Qh8-d4 Rc3-b3+ Kb5-c5
9 00:00 32,693 510,819 +1.79 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-c4 Rd3-c3 Qc4-e2+ Kb2-b3 Qe2-d2 Rc3-c4 Qd2-d1+ Kb3-a3 Qd1-e1 Ka3-b2
9 00:00 32,701 503,088 +1.79 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-c4 Rd3-c3 Qc4-e2+ Kb2-b3 Qe2-d2 Rc3-c4 Qd2-d1+ Kb3-a3 Qd1-e1 Ka3-b2
10 00:00 63,316 666,475 +1.81 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-c4 Rd3-c3 Qc4-d5 Kb2-a3 Qd5-d4 Ka3-b2 Kb6-a5 Kb2-c2 Qd4-e5
10 00:00 63,324 659,620 +1.81 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-c4 Rd3-c3 Qc4-d5 Kb2-a3 Qd5-d4 Ka3-b2 Kb6-a5 Kb2-c2 Qd4-e5
11 00:00 122,183 749,588 +1.84 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-e6 Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Kb2-a3 Qe6-d6+ Ka3-b2 Qd6-d5 Kb2-a3 Qd5-d4 Rc3-b3+ Kb5-c5
11 00:00 122,191 745,069 +1.84 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-e6 Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Kb2-a3 Qe6-d6+ Ka3-b2 Qd6-d5 Kb2-a3 Qd5-d4 Rc3-b3+ Kb5-c5
12 00:00 310,610 949,878 +1.89 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-h8+ Kb2-b3 Qh8-e5 Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Rc3-d3 Qe5-f5 Kb3-c3 Qf5-c5+ Kc3-d2 Qc5-f2+ Kd2-c1 Kb5-b6 Rd3-b3+ Kb6-c5
12 00:00 310,618 947,003 +1.89 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-h8+ Kb2-b3 Qh8-e5 Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Rc3-d3 Qe5-f5 Kb3-c3 Qf5-c5+ Kc3-d2 Qc5-f2+ Kd2-c1 Kb5-b6 Rd3-b3+ Kb6-c5
13 00:00 375,703 973,324 +1.89 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-h8+ Kb2-b3 Qh8-e5 Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Rc3-d3 Qe5-f5 Kb3-c3 Qf5-c5+ Kc3-d2 Qc5-f2+ Kd2-c1 Qf2-f4+ Rd3-d2 Qf4-c4+ Rd2-c2 Qc4-d4
13 00:00 375,711 970,826 +1.89 c6-c7 Rd5-d3 c7-c8Q Ka1-b2 Qc8-h8+ Kb2-b3 Qh8-e5 Rd3-c3 Kb6-b5 Rc3-d3 Qe5-f5 Kb3-c3 Qf5-c5+ Kc3-d2 Qc5-f2+ Kd2-c1 Qf2-f4+ Rd3-d2 Qf4-c4+ Rd2-c2 Qc4-d4
14 00:00 696,868 1,035,464 +1.73 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+
14 00:00 700,879 1,036,802 +1.26 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+
14 00:00 704,063 1,035,386 +0.55 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+
14 00:00 715,763 1,037,336 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
14 00:00 715,771 1,037,348 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
15 00:00 729,837 1,039,654 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
15 00:00 729,845 1,039,665 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
16 00:00 756,853 1,046,823 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
16 00:00 756,861 1,045,386 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
17 00:00 790,306 1,060,812 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
17 00:00 790,314 1,059,401 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
18 00:00 837,605 1,076,613 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
18 00:00 837,613 1,075,239 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
19 00:00 903,764 1,102,151 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
19 00:00 903,772 1,100,817 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
20 00:00 1,017,902 1,137,320 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
20 00:00 1,017,910 1,137,329 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
21 00:01 1,163,781 1,180,305 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
21 00:01 1,163,789 1,179,118 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
22 00:01 1,395,637 1,233,984 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
22 00:01 1,395,645 1,233,991 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
23 00:01 1,719,305 1,292,710 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
23 00:01 1,719,313 1,291,745 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
24 00:01 2,177,298 1,339,052 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
24 00:01 2,177,306 1,338,232 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
25 00:02 2,906,827 1,394,830 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
25 00:02 2,906,835 1,394,164 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
26 00:02 4,088,550 1,453,965 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
26 00:02 4,088,558 1,453,451 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
27 00:04 7,522,955 1,527,193 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
27 00:04 7,522,963 1,526,885 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
28 00:08 12,686,734 1,573,060 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
28 00:08 12,686,742 1,572,866 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
29 00:15 24,621,324 1,616,845 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
29 00:15 24,621,332 1,616,739 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
30 00:32 55,173,795 1,684,130 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
30 00:32 55,173,803 1,684,130 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
31 00:54 91,575,585 1,677,823 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
31 00:54 91,575,593 1,677,792 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
32 02:37 271,414,833 1,723,651 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
32 02:37 271,414,841 1,723,640 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
33 07:23 778,049,905 1,753,849 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4
33 07:23 778,067,178 1,753,829 0.00 c6-c7 Rd5-d6+ Kb6-b5 Rd6-d5+ Kb5-b4 Rd5-d4+ Kb4-c3 Rd4-d1 Kc3-c2 Rd1-d4 c7-c8Q Rd4-c4+ Qc8xc4

====================================================================================================================

And here is the famous Saavedra ending study game that I played versus Komodo:

[Event " Rook vs Pawn-Ending"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.03.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Pichy"]
[Black "Komodo3-64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3000"]
[WhiteElo "2200"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/1KP5/3r4/8/8/8/k7 w - - 0 1"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. c7 Rd6+ 2. Kb5 Rd5+ 3. Kb4 Rd4+ 4. Kb3 Rd3+ 5. Kc2 Rd4 6. c8=R Rd2+ 7.
Kxd2 Kb2 8. Rc3 Kb1 9. Rb3+ Ka1 10. Kc3 Ka2 {Black resigns} 11. Kc2 Ka1
{Black resigns} 12. Ra3# *

[mcostalba]

And here is the famous Saavedra ending study game that I played versus Komodo:

[Event " Rook vs Pawn-Ending"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.03.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Pichy"]
[Black "Komodo3-64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3000"]
[WhiteElo "2200"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/1KP5/3r4/8/8/8/k7 w - - 0 1"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. c7 Rd6+ 2. Kb5 Rd5+ 3. Kb4 Rd4+ 4. Kb3 Rd3+ 5. Kc2 Rd4 6. c8=R Rd2+ 7.
Kxd2 Kb2 8. Rc3 Kb1 9. Rb3+ Ka1 10. Kc3 Ka2 {Black resigns} 11. Kc2 Ka1
{Black resigns} 12. Ra3# *

After:
1. c7 Rd6+ 2. Kb5 Rd5+ 3. Kb4 Rd4+ 4. Kb3 Rd3+ 5. Kc2

for black is better to play Rf3.....

[zullil]

And here is the famous Saavedra ending study game that I played versus Komodo:

[Event " Rook vs Pawn-Ending"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.03.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Pichy"]
[Black "Komodo3-64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3000"]
[WhiteElo "2200"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/1KP5/3r4/8/8/8/k7 w - - 0 1"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. c7 Rd6+ 2. Kb5 Rd5+ 3. Kb4 Rd4+ 4. Kb3 Rd3+ 5. Kc2 Rd4 6. c8=R Rd2+ 7.
Kxd2 Kb2 8. Rc3 Kb1 9. Rb3+ Ka1 10. Kc3 Ka2 {Black resigns} 11. Kc2 Ka1
{Black resigns} 12. Ra3# *

After:
1. c7 Rd6+ 2. Kb5 Rd5+ 3. Kb4 Rd4+ 4. Kb3 Rd3+ 5. Kc2

for black is better to play Rf3.....

And Kb2 is "better" for Black's third move than Rd4+, in the sense that it allows Black to survive three moves longer than Rd4+ allows. On the other hand, if one is playing for a "swindle" against a human opponent ...

[mcostalba]

And here is the famous Saavedra ending study game that I played versus Komodo:

[Event " Rook vs Pawn-Ending"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.03.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Pichy"]
[Black "Komodo3-64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3000"]
[WhiteElo "2200"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/1KP5/3r4/8/8/8/k7 w - - 0 1"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. c7 Rd6+ 2. Kb5 Rd5+ 3. Kb4 Rd4+ 4. Kb3 Rd3+ 5. Kc2 Rd4 6. c8=R Rd2+ 7.
Kxd2 Kb2 8. Rc3 Kb1 9. Rb3+ Ka1 10. Kc3 Ka2 {Black resigns} 11. Kc2 Ka1
{Black resigns} 12. Ra3# *

After:
1. c7 Rd6+ 2. Kb5 Rd5+ 3. Kb4 Rd4+ 4. Kb3 Rd3+ 5. Kc2

for black is better to play Rf3.....

And Kb2 is "better" for Black's third move than Rd4+, in the sense that it allows Black to survive three moves longer than Rd4+ allows. On the other hand, if one is playing for a "swindle" against a human opponent ...

I mean, after Rf3 the best continuation, that leads to mate after 19 moves, is to promote to queen not to rook. So if the study's author wanted to prove that shortest mate is with rook underpromotion I think he made it wrong: with best play for both side mate is in about 30 moves and is with queen promotion.

[mcostalba]

I mean, after Rf3 the best continuation, that leads to mate after 19 moves, is to promote to queen not to rook. So if the study's author wanted to prove that shortest mate is with rook underpromotion I think he made it wrong: with best play for both side mate is in about 30 moves and is with queen promotion.

This seems the shortest mate (31 moves) with best play from both players:

Code: Select all

c7 Kb2 c8=Q Rd3 Qc4 Rd8 Qg4 Kc2 Kb5 Rd3 Qe2+ Kc3 Kc5 Rd8 Qe5+ Kd3 Qe6 Kc2 Kc4 Kd2 Qh6+ Kc2 Qg6+ Kd1 Qg4+ Kc2 Qf5+ Kd1 Kb3 Ke2 Kc3 Ke3 Qg5+ Ke4 Qxd8 Kf5 Qd6 Kg5 Kb3 Kf5 Qh6 Ke5 Qg6 Kf4 Kc3 Ke5 Qf7 Kd6 Qf6+ Kd5 Qf5+ Kc6 Qe6+ Kb7 Qe4+ Ka6 Qe7 Kb6 Kd3 Ka6 Kc4 Kb6 Qd7 Ka6 Kc5 Ka5 Qb5# 

[Houdini]

I mean, after Rf3 the best continuation, that leads to mate after 19 moves, is to promote to queen not to rook. So if the study's author wanted to prove that shortest mate is with rook underpromotion I think he made it wrong: with best play for both side mate is in about 30 moves and is with queen promotion.

The point of the "Saavedra" position is not to find the shortest mate.
It's a position with a very interesting history and in fact one of the most famous end game positions ever.
Recommended reading:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saavedra_position
- http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess/saavedra.htm
Sometimes human chess is more interesting than computer chess...

Robert

[zullil]

Hi Marco,

Tablebases show that in this position

[d]8/8/1KP5/3r4/8/8/8/k7 b - - 0 1

White wins in 26 moves, starting with c7. There are several choices for Black for how to survive longest; none forces White to under-promote.

[mcostalba]

I understand. Thanks.

But in this case how can we blame an engine of not finding rook underpromotion? Even if the engine supports underpromotions and even if it finds the line it will be discarded during the search because black can play "better" where better, for _all_ the engines that I know, it means to delay the mate as long as it can.

[zullil]

We can't blame an engine. But maybe Jorge disagrees.