Frank Quisinsky wrote:And Rybka is an old engine and completly out.
Same for other top engines from the past.
We should look in the future and not each time in the past. So many nice developments we can find ... no reason to looking in one of 1.000 available engines from the past.
It's just history!
New ideas are the future, not to discuss again and again about older ideas. Never people should live in the past ... not good! Boring Topic, important for me only ... readme.txt, honestly about the own work in times today.
Let us speak about Texel, Cheng, Hannibal, Arasan, Stockfish, Andscacs ... the latest updates!
1000000000% more interesting as such an old Topic so many messages you can find from People which can write in better English and which can building better opinions I have. TalkChess is full of it.
Best
Frank
Yes...nowadays there are many good programmers, this is true !
But start to understand this my dear friend:
- People like Vasik Rajlich, who are 'Genius' can not be forgotten...
Without proofs Rybka 1 isn't Fruit is a programmer not a Genius for myself. Each programmer can improved a work. The most improved the own work ... Nirvanachess +150 Elo, ICE + 150 Elo.
That isn't witchcraft, good programming skills only.
But much more interesting to do that is to start an own work.
It's OK if a programmer used as start Point strong sources, but in this case it should be public in readme.
Thanks to Robert Hyatt wrote the programmer from Houdini after he released 1.0. Thanks to Fabian ...
Right is:
Thanks to the Igorit team and Norman Schmidt. I used as start Point Robodini 0.9. And than ... thanks to others programmers, like Robert Hyatt with to a lot in the past, or Fabian or others ...
I used Robodini and Fruit but the own sources are closed.
Do you think that this can be right?
OK, Norman made the mistake that the sources are to late open source. In the meantime the Houdini programmer used it for Houdini 1.0. But the Houdini isn't honest to us and worte here ... all is mine.
And in case of Rybka ...
Igorit is a copy of Rybka, decompiled ... where are the proofs Vas? People which say such things should give the proofs. But Vas will get problems if he do that and he starts with his statement with Rybka 1. Because never Vas gave the information from where from Rybka 1 was.
Allways better to develops an own engine as to use works by others. For the future better. Programmers starting with a work by others comes and goes. The own and good ideas go by the board. It's a pity but if programmers started with works of others that is normaly if the own work isn't public with open sources.
Not a Genius, sorry!
Richard Lang was a Genius, and his engine.
Ed Schröder was a Genius, the Hiarcs programmer, John Stanback perhaps the biggest Genius with the GnuChess code. Fabian with the easy code he released with Fruit. Tord with his Glaurung code and so many others. But Vas? Vas had a good team with Lary and others, maybe he used Fruit (most are sure about it). Again, he added good ideas, I am sure here but the question is ...
Where the first code come from and about this one never Vas speak with us. Same do the programmer of Houdini. Used Robbodini 0.9 ... all is mine and discuss with Robert and others in TalkChess that the Critter programmer decompiled and used his own code.
What goes around, comes around!
A perfect answer the Critter programmer gave!
Yes...there are many talented programers, but we can not miss to mention Vas's efforts...
Otherwise the current top engines would not be so strong as it nowadays...!
BTW,
In case of Elo engine improvements, I say this:
- Rybka and the others !
Why I say this,
Because to create X engine approx. 500 Elo ove the strongest engine (Fruit)
It is not so easy as it looks...
Let's say, tomorrow is appeared:
X engine, which will be + 500 Elo stronger than Stockfish 6
If there will be a such person who can do that,
He will be another Genius (in my eyes)
I am not saying Rybka is a full clone.
I am saying that Vas never speak about it from where from his knowlege before he starts with Rybka 1. I say that I am sure that Vas is a talented programmer but goes the wrong way. And I am saying that I will read in readme.txt ...
I am using the ideas from ... if so!
That's all ...
Have a look in the first message from today to Ed.
My 5 Points ...
Which had nothing to do with the question at hand, there is no R5 because of the abasement he got from a large part of this community.
Which effort?
If Vas used Fruit code all must be free available!
Sources of Rybka are closed.
Which effort?
Again ...
Vas must live with it if own not public ideas go by the board if he used as start Point free sources from on other one. Again that is a pity but Vas started wrong and I believe that is the reason never we get a clear statement from him.
So again ...
Which effort ...
Good known are the endgame tables from Larry, the same in Igorit as in Rybka? Igorit is a recompiled Rybka ... where are the complete proofs and where are the statement?
The ICE programmer is for me a Genius. Have a look in his idea for eval after the opening book moves. Such things are interesting, own ideas add in the own engine. Not important iCE have 2.800 or 3.000 Elo.
Elo is nothing Sedat, nothing!
Elo build in engine-engine games in the early endgame. Here are the differents to find out. The own style, own ideas are interesting because we all have no chance to make more as 50% vs. 800 from over 1.000 available engines.
Not important if an engine have 2.700 or 3.000 Elo. Over the Horizont from humans. We can see it with engine-engine and stats only.
But own ideas are interesting to follow.
An own face is the secret of each engine!
Only eng-eng 1-minute Players are looking on 5 Elo more or less for such strong engines Stockfish is. In my opinion really boring.
But humans will have the best. The best car, the best Computer, the best engine ... we are the same as for 500 years but with more modern technic and better laws. The king is dead Long live the king ... the same as for 500 years. Not important is the king bad or good, most important ... I have no disadvantage or better I have an Advantage with the new king. I have 100 Elo more ... the new king must be a god.
What we can see in the Computer chess history, we can see in our classic period too.
Germans can sing a song about it if we are looking what is happen for around 70-80 years.
Allways the same ...
We are thinking that we are more cultured, but in reality we aren't.
And if we are alone with our PC ... you know what I will write!
Ed, you have to look in your own ignorance at first!
I have to look in my ignorance, that is right.
I am thinking on the thread with Critter programmer in Rybka Forum. And all the proofs the Critter programmer gave and your ignorance to it. After all the sources he copy as proof in the same thread.
We believe what we wish to believe!
I too ... and after all i read from yourself to that topic you too.
And why a humilation?
Could be solved very easy by Vas with a clear statement!
Easy I think!
A programmer can write a programming language should be write in a non programming language too I think. But maybe I am wrong.
After all what is known since years Vas have to make the next move. Hope this one from him will not a self mate.
An other good and old commercial way is to ignore such things if I am thinking on the past with so many examples I can give you. A bad way to ignore Winboard, to ignore UCI, to ignore FRC / Chess 960 ...
Again and again ...
Allways the same!
You are speaking about ignorance ...
We can discuss about it if we are looking in the Computer chess history. I like this Topic a lot Ed. My favor topic since Winboard times.
