Your favorite engines?

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supersharp77
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Re: Your favorite engines?

Post by supersharp77 »

matejst wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:41 pm Here is a list of the engines I use the more often -- in no particular order -- and whose style I like, with some comments. All these engines had to solve a few (the choice was very subjective, though) positional tests to be used and to make a good impression when analyzing.

A first group of mature engines: SlowChess -- nice GUI, reliable evaluation, multiPV; Wasp - UCI_limit_strength, multiPV... very comfortable, different, but I am still testing the last version. v4.50 was good, while I was not satisfied with the versions 2.01-4.00, and I feel that John can improve the NN. I prefer the name "Zarkov", though. Dark Toga 1.1 -- In general, I find Dieter's nets very interesting. Harmon cannot be used for analysis, since it is able to blunder heavily, but Dark Horse and The White Rose are different and refreshing. I use them both with Fire 8.NN. Did not try the Frosty net, although I liked Ice. Komodo 8 -- very positional, probably the best evaluation of the free Komodos. No UCI_limit_strength, though, and tactically weaker than K9, e.g.

Then, a few engines that unfortunately have almost no features, options, but which I like a lot: Orion 0.8 -- a fine engine, tactically and positionally very strong. It seems the net is based on SF 12 evaluation, something I don't really like. I would prefer a more original approach. I hope David still works on it. Seer 2.3 -- Unfortunately, Seer crashes when I try to analyze a fen and it has no options, but the evaluation is different, and very good in simple positions. I hope Connor will fix this bug. Winter -- Nice, positional engine -- unfortunately, Jonathan seems to almost have stopped developing his engine.

I tried several other engines worth mentioning: Marvin, Zahak, Berserk, Koivisto... but I still need to test them. Sugar and Shashchess are worth mentioning too -- although I would prefer the learning function to be implemented in original engines. In general, they are more user-friendly than SF.

Which are your favorite engines?
My Favorite Chess Playing Engines (In No Particular Order)

1. Fritz 5.32...Fritz 6.. The Global Original Engine.. Still excellent for engine testing
2. L Chess Engines 5.0.0 5.3.0 5.40 6.0.0 A extremely Unique Playing Style...(Human Like) A Great Sparring Partner!!
3. King/ChessMaster Chess Engines..Virtually Invincible inside the GUI by most ..Still strong without the GUI even Now!
4. Thinker Engines..A fascinating style (even with no PV!) quite unusual!
5. Olithink Engines...Not the strongest but I may have 50+ Olithink Engines Now..Newest is 64k but thinks 20 plys deep!
6. Quark Chess...Nice little engine...nice flexible features
7. Rodent and Open Tal....Lots of Fun just adjusting parameters and adjusting playing styles and books!
8. Deep Shredder 10 A Tactical Monster in The Old Days...Still not easy to beat today...
9. Crafty...The Standard by Which All Chess engines Are Measured....An American Original..v8.0 x32 to v25.6 x64
10. Toga..Another Of the Early Tactical Monsters...Lots of adjustments and features..
11. Fruit...Lots Of Adjustments...Still going strong!!
12. Rebel Pro Deo..A Legendary Engine I think there are at least 20-30 different Engines Around...Varied Styles Great Books
13. Komodo..has been around for 20 years or so I guess...From Doch to Dragon by Komodo...Quite Legendary Now!!
14. Hiarcs...Another Legendary Engine...20-30 years I figure...Hiarcs 1 to Hiarcs 15? Rock Solid Chess...Intelligent...
15. Rybka & Houdini....Even with The Controversy...Interesting and Strong Engines and Nice GUI's..
16. Bikjump...Not too tough..Had Fun playing it in Chess for Android...
17. Sjeng Chess Engines...Lots of models...Sjeng IV to Deep Sjeng 2010....Fun to play and watch play..
18. Green Light Chess...Nice Playing Style...
19. Zappa....Had alot of Fun with Zappa....
20. LC0..Leela Zero...LeelaFish...Maia...Nice playing style...interesting to set up...Humanlike....
21. Tytan Chess Engines...I like watching this one think...Unusual move generation approach...
22. Stockfish used to have lots of Setting and options...SF Development Has almost none now...Not the same...
Fritz 0
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Re: Your favorite engines?

Post by Fritz 0 »

Fritz 5.32 and Fritz 9 for sentimental reasons and countless games I have played against them.

Komodo 13.3 and 14.1 for everything else (strength, playing style, speed, skill levels etc.).
Dicaste
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Re: Your favorite engines?

Post by Dicaste »

Berserk and Revenge
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mclane
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Re: Your favorite engines?

Post by mclane »

Mchess
Hiarcs
Chess system tal
Chess tiger
Rebel
Philidor chess
Mephisto III S
Wchess
The king
Gandalf
Saitek Maestro D++
CXG Sphinx
LC0
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Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
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reflectionofpower
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Re: Your favorite engines?

Post by reflectionofpower »

Madeleine Birchfield wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:22 am
dkappe wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:15 am I myself really like Dragon Dev. :shock:
Course you would, you train their nets for them.

The biggest issue with Dragon is that it costs over a hundred dollars to get one. I personally do not like commercial engines very much (i.e. Fritz, Ethereal, Revenge, etc...). I will most likely wait until Dragon 3 gets released and Dragon 1 is made free like older Komodo versions, before getting a copy of Dragon.
The $119.98 would be for the year long subscription with the upgrades and I got 3 during that time so it was worth it to me. $74.98 for the non sub plan. If you recall during the MChess Pro,Chess Genius,Rebel,Gideon Pro days prices were higher if I recall right.
"Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." (Dune - 1984)

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Ovyron
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Re: Your favorite engines?

Post by Ovyron »

So, let me parrot myself. I spent like... a whole decade watching engines play each other and analyzing with the strongest ones that showed some style that I loved. Being king attacks or leaving pieces en prise or sacrificing rooks for pawns like they were worthless balderdash.

Back then we enjoyed seeing the games of those engines and produced the games to watch them, unlike the people of the era that only did it to measure elo difference, obsessed with some elo number and to rank the engines, for some reason.

And unlike people of today that figured a way to "measure style" by playing hundreds of thousands of games and checking the shortest mates only, which is not my cup of tea, but what you gonna do?

But that decade was so long ago my favorite engines are doubtfully relevant. The problem was that I stopped doing such things, right at the time some people started producing engines with great styles without caring about elo, but I never go to try those ones.

So here goes for the nth time:

Thinker 5.3b Inert - Top engine style-wise for the most years. This engine would disregard everything you know about solid play and truly go bonkers on a king attack or material sacrifice for reasons nobody could ever understand (as it didn't show a PV, you never knew what it was thinking.) This version played roughly at the level of Rybka at the time, which was mindblowing, though nobody back could keep pace with Rybka. Later stronger versions lost the touch, I figure seeing that the attacks we'rent successful and avoiding them, so this was the peak.

Zappa Mexico Dissident Aggressor - Heh, this was some setting for the engine, I don't even remember if it was for this one or Zappa Mexico II. The thing with it is that it could produce winning lines that no other engine would see, and that when played others claimed Zappa was losing for 3.00 or such, but Zappa knew it could hold it or was winning. The greatest at squeezing the life out of quiet positions.

Toga Chekov - Another setting for some Toga version, or other. Back then the insanity of the Stockfish versions of today was held by the Fruit versions, there was the official branch and other unofficial subbranches, and then there were the Toga branches, which were a mess so huge that you'd upgrade from a version III of one to a version 2 of another! Well, I got my hands in all of them and Chekov was significantly more active than any other. I mean, I completely forgot how the others played, but after all these years I still remember how Chekov played.

Hiarcs Paderborn 2007 - On those years one of my main analysis engines was Hiarcs, even after years and years passed, there'd be some kind of positions where Hiarcs would have an unique idea that worked. Back then I'd say the idea was "human-like", today I know better but still, the ideas were unlike-engines. This Paderborn version had a style distinct from previous and later versions, perhaps by a fluke, but it was definitively the most courageous of the bunch.

Pro Deo 1.2 Q3 - Rebel Decade 3.0 was my initiation into chess engines, who know what hobby I'd have had if it didn't exist. I never stopped using Rebel versions until Ed started making versions that wouldn't run on my machine, oh well. I'd make hundreds of personalities and watch them play against each other. Q3 is the name of the personality that played the best, later even Ed would make a pseudo Multiprocessor version that would play normally unless Q3's suggested move hit some score. Why 1.2 version? Well, it had the best style against engines of that level of strength, 1.6 would have to face stronger engines and wouldn't get to shine as much.

The King (ChessMaster) Tribute Personality - Another great engine with personalities was Chessmaster. I got them in their own GUI, put the children animations on the pieces, and watched them play. Not only the ones for this, but the ones from CM9000, 10 and 11. Some other communities were obsessed with making personality. Tribute played the game you'd imagine a Chess Master who was a King should play, even if his plans didn't work against stronger chessmaster versions.

Komodo KingHunter - For a very short while they allowed you to mess around with Komodo settings. They didn't get the point that it was done for fun, they wanted us to find better settings than default or something, since we didn't the feature was taken away. but in the meantime we got some entity REALLY obsessed with mating the opposing king, to ridiculous levels. The thing was that while this greatly weakened Komodo, it could do that AND play stronger than all the above members of this list! That was an unprecedented style+style combo, but at this point in time engines were so much stronger than people barely cared.

Houdini 6 Contempt 10 - The first engine to dethrone Thinker 5.3B. Thinker had so much style that stronger engines couldn't break the ratio, but Houdini managed to do it. I never get to know how this Contempt worked (despite its source being exposed as a stockfish clone later), but it's unlike any other Contempt implementation I've ever seen. I guess it's similar to the recently implemented Optimism of Stockfish, except this one focused in complicating the position even to its own detriment. 10 was the maximum, I always wondered how some Contempt 100 would play like, imagine an engine that instead of wanting to mate your king it wanted to complicate the position so nobody had an idea of who was ahead. Many times this was the only defense in losing positions, while other engines would just give up.

Rybka 3 Dynamic - There's many versions that could be on the list, like Winfinder or Mindbreaker settings, but his one where because it's the only one with a style aimed for material imbalances. You know, you can have an engine that likes pawn+rook better than bishop+knight and would aim for it. Or another that likes the opposite and would aim for it. Well, Rybka 3 Dynamic would aim for BOTH, being happy if the imbalance was on the board, no matter what side she was on. Otherwise she would play normally, but Rybka 3 was the peak in style of all the versions, anyway.

Naum 3 - Really? Naum? What is it doing on the list? :lol: So Naum was the anti-style engine, like, the opposite of all the above. The most passive, good for nothing style I ever seen. it wasn't even solid like others, just...not there. But that's what made it memorable, at her strength it was incredible to see her draw games against engines of much better styles without breaking a sweat. It becomes worthless when the level gets higher and its passiveness just lead to loses, but still the most memorable engine on the other side.

Fizbo - The most original move picker of all. One day I created a system to pick moves by using several engines as move suggesters and others and judges to create original chess entities. Well, Fizbo played more originally than my system! I don't even know if it was a bug or something, but Fizbo would just focus on the most strange move on the board and play it if it was possible. If there was ever an engine that played like a clown, it was this.

Andscacs - On the time of Andscacs the top engines were very samey. Stockfish was suggesting moves that when played against everything else would convince them that it was best, so there was some kind of consensus of the best moves and things became really boring. I even hit 0.00 as a backsolved score of chess positions. Now, with NNUE, I know that lost of those 0.00 were losing, but back then I thought I had the best lines. Andscacs challenged those assumptions by playing differently, it felt like a breath of fresh air. Most of its ideas didn't work but when they did it led to new lines and exploration of things missed by Stockfish. The most unique engine of its time (I think it was even radically different to itself from version to version!).

Leela - And then Leela came and destroyed all the styles ever played by an engine before. Kingscrusher is a Youtuber that has dedicated a great deal of time examining Leela games, as Leela was becoming stronger and playing chess that was outside this world! Dethroning Houdini Contempt 10 as it wasn't just the best in style, at some point it was also the strongest engine! But note I'm not saying lc0, at some point in the process of improving the style was lost, so who knows when it peaked.

Honorable mentions: Strelka, Shredder 13, Vitruvius - They'd have rocked my world if they were released years earlier than they did, by their time their style was eclipsed by others.
More honorable mentions: Critter 7.0, Fritz 10, Junior 10 - Great styles but "machine-like", on the list I have great styles that feel organic.

And now, to answer the question... what is my favorite engine?

Well...

*Drumroll*

Stockfish 15 with nn-f31e5e1cd71f.nnue net!

Heh, I forgot to mention all the above things were pre-NNUE times. NNUE changed everything and people don't like to admit it but NNUE Stockfish features a great playing style! The way it wins against everything else is formidable, and if you don't like the style, you change the net.

This net I mention was released just yesterday, and I watched in awe how it was disagreeing with previous nets on positions and playing a completely different chess from that witnessed from all previous nets! Too bad it didn't make the cut, but, well, it was losing to the previous net so it makes sense to use another one.

What seems to be happening with the improved nets is that they've been more and more aiming for positions that previous nets can't play well, automatically reaching for positions so complex if you're not a NNUE you're going to be dead. This creates and amazing style which is about tension on the board which is like walking on a tightrope, and it's so much stronger than anything else that it totally breaks the style/strength ratio.

So there you have it, my opinion, I think NNUE eat the world of chess on both strength and style, at this point seeing a NNUE outplay another is the most spectacular thing, and it has nothing to do with fewest moves to mate a king.
Your beliefs create your reality, so be careful what you wish for.
JohnWoe
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Re: Your favorite engines?

Post by JohnWoe »

Obviously Mayhem. The greatest engine of the observable universe ( -13.8 Gly + +13.8 Gly x 2 ~ 46 Gly ). And the rest of the universe which the observable universe is expanding into :D
Lazy_Frank
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Re: Your favorite engines?

Post by Lazy_Frank »

Rybka - at the peak time.
Houdini - at the peak time.
Komodo - at the peak time.
Stockfish - at the peak time, till now.
Fat Titz - for short time as Stockfish opponent.
Leela - as opponent for current Stockfish, seems single engine which still can win some openings.
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Eraserheads
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Re: Your favorite engines?

Post by Eraserheads »

1) Bright 0.4a
Almost always creates unique looking positions I have never seen on any chess books. Not the strongest (2800) but I keep this one around just for the novelty of the strange moves it produces.

2) Thinker 5.1c / 5.3b inert
A real Tal like engine, a pity it doesn't produce multi PV analysis. I still keep this around for its attractive attacking play.

3) Glaurung 1.2.1
Quite an aggressive engine and very entertaining to watch.

4) Rybka 3
The famous tactical hammer of Rybka is evident with this version.

5) Fritz 10 - Aggressive but computerlike style
OliverBr
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Re: Your favorite engines?

Post by OliverBr »

supersharp77 wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:40 am 5. Olithink Engines...Not the strongest but I may have 50+ Olithink Engines Now..Newest is 64k but thinks 20 plys deep!
Frankly, 20 plys are because of a lot of pruning, but you got a point:
What other engine of the size of 64k can beat OliThink?
I would like to know. Please come forth! :)
Chess Engine OliThink: http://brausch.org/home/chess
OliThink GitHub:https://github.com/olithink