ozziejoe wrote:Evgenii, your question (implying vas is unethical)
Joseph,
what my question is implying is a pure speculation of yours. That was a re-action of untrue statement of Gerold Daniels /that the reason of "negativity" to Vas is that he's the best/.
From your post I see you asked yourself this question but, I think, you didn't liked the answer you gave.
Regards,
Geno
Actually, I thought his post was very pertinent. Vas hasn't done anything unethical, yet you imply he has, or that there is 'negativity' attached to his name. There isn't other than the the grumbling of his amazing domination of the computer chess scene, and the sometimes excessive posts regarding Rybka.
As an aside, you mention SMK, and while it is absolutely true he was also number one for years, he never came close (no disrespect to him and his formidable program) to the sheer difference in Elo between his number one and the number two, much less increased or held such a huge edge for so much time.
ozziejoe wrote:Evgenii, your question (implying vas is unethical)
Joseph,
what my question is implying is a pure speculation of yours. That was a re-action of untrue statement of Gerold Daniels /that the reason of "negativity" to Vas is that he's the best/.
From your post I see you asked yourself this question but, I think, you didn't liked the answer you gave.
Regards,
Geno
Actually, I thought his post was very pertinent. Vas hasn't done anything unethical, yet you imply he has, or that there is 'negativity' attached to his name. There isn't other than the the grumbling of his amazing domination of the computer chess scene, and the sometimes excessive posts regarding Rybka.
As an aside, you mention SMK, and while it is absolutely true he was also number one for years, he never came close (no disrespect to him and his formidable program) to the sheer difference in Elo between his number one and the number two, much less increased or held such a huge edge for so much time.
Albert
I disagree that Vas did nothing unethical
Displaying misleading information about nodes per second is considered by me as something unethical.
Note that I do not think that he did something illegal and I do not think that he stole code from fruit.
ozziejoe wrote:Evgenii, your question (implying vas is unethical)
Joseph,
what my question is implying is a pure speculation of yours. That was a re-action of untrue statement of Gerold Daniels /that the reason of "negativity" to Vas is that he's the best/.
From your post I see you asked yourself this question but, I think, you didn't liked the answer you gave.
Regards,
Geno
Actually, I thought his post was very pertinent. Vas hasn't done anything unethical, yet you imply he has, or that there is 'negativity' attached to his name. There isn't other than the the grumbling of his amazing domination of the computer chess scene, and the sometimes excessive posts regarding Rybka.
As an aside, you mention SMK, and while it is absolutely true he was also number one for years, he never came close (no disrespect to him and his formidable program) to the sheer difference in Elo between his number one and the number two, much less increased or held such a huge edge for so much time.
Albert
I must repeat (this time changing the name):
Albert, what my question is implying is a pure speculation of yours.
From your answer I can conclude that "negativity" to Vas is born by the ELO-gap with other programs.
Thanks for the answer, but I am not so sure that this is the right answer of the question.
Uri's post indicated more precisely the reason of different attitudes toward Rajlich and SMK, fe.
Uri Blass wrote:I disagree that Vas did nothing unethical
Displaying misleading information about nodes per second is considered by me as something unethical.
Not only by you but by many people -- programmers and fans.
Nid Hogge wrote:
So maybe he used most of Rybka code and added fruit like code in other parts of the engine. Thats how I understood it anyway
That's basically what Vas said. I don't have an expert opinion on this. My brief look at Strelka source indicated that it isn't overall very similar to released versions of Fruit.
Note that algorithms are not protectable by copyright. So if you use the same algorithm but it's not line for line copied code, it's quite possibly not an illegal use.
Whether Strelka derives from Rybka, I can't say. But the source is peculiar in places. There are quite a few hardcoded constants where I'd use a define or static constant. Also some code is inlined in multiple places. This could indicate some disassembly but doesn't prove it. Overall it does not look particularly exotic.
But I gather Vas's main concern was with "emater.c", which has a lot of data tables. If these also exist in Rybka I would be concerned, too.
jdart wrote:But I gather Vas's main concern was with "emater.c", which has a lot of data tables. If these also exist in Rybka I would be concerned, too.
Osipov words are:
If he means the data tables from emater.c file, there is no such data tables in Rybka -- I have checked it. And everyone can check it scanning Rybka's exe.
jdart wrote:But I gather Vas's main concern was with "emater.c", which has a lot of data tables. If these also exist in Rybka I would be concerned, too.
Osipov words are:
If he means the data tables from emater.c file, there is no such data tables in Rybka -- I have checked it. And everyone can check it scanning Rybka's exe.
I would prefer if yes, we stand to the spirit of openness in debates and therefore also what O says must be discussed, but at the same time I just would prefer that we discriminated a sort of higher status for someone (single or plural) who commited unallowed acts of thievery. In other words we should brandmark those who ally with such evil offenders. O is anonymous and hiding for criminal activities and nobody honest in our community should support this O activities by taking them as sort of relevant or honest or decisive. Someone who does whyat O did is no longer trustable. Rajlich's words are standing miles above those from O. There is no equality between a thief and a well known, honest member of our community with the best program in the competition.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz
Andrej Sidorov wrote:
Osipov words are: If he means the data tables from emater.c file, there is no such data tables in Rybka -- I have checked it. And everyone can check it scanning Rybka's exe.
Someone who does whyat O did is no longer trustable. Rajlich's words are standing miles above those from O.
If you can read, its not matter of trust. Everyone can check it. Did you check it, or your word are just anonymous blah-blah about who do you think is trustable or criminal?
jdart wrote:But I gather Vas's main concern was with "emater.c", which has a lot of data tables. If these also exist in Rybka I would be concerned, too.
Osipov words are:
If he means the data tables from emater.c file, there is no such data tables in Rybka -- I have checked it. And everyone can check it scanning Rybka's exe.
This does not prove nothing.
It is possible that these data tables are derived from rybka.
I read that strelka1.0b had tables from rybka and it is possible that strelka2 simply has small tables that are used to calculate big tables that are in rybka.
jdart wrote:But I gather Vas's main concern was with "emater.c", which has a lot of data tables. If these also exist in Rybka I would be concerned, too.
Osipov words are:
If he means the data tables from emater.c file, there is no such data tables in Rybka -- I have checked it. And everyone can check it scanning Rybka's exe.
This does not prove nothing.
It is possible that these data tables are derived from rybka.
Uri
Can you prove it? It is also possible that I am Darth Vader. Or Princess Leia.
