Dedicated Machine: Easy/Beginner Level rating project

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Steve B
Posts: 3697
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:26 pm

Re: Dedicated Machine: Easy/Beginner Level rating project

Post by Steve B »

CRoberson wrote:Since you have finished 4 with Fd 4, I have to play catch up.

A nice game by both, but won by Pooky. Goes all the way to a king and pawns
endgame.

[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2009.04.14"]
[Black "Pooky 2.7"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D05"]
[Opening "Colle"]
[Time "17:06:09"]
[Variation "3...e6 4.Nbd2"]
[BlackElo "1552"]
[TimeControl "40/900:40/900:40/900"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "124"]
White was the Citrine on Fd4?
if so i can edit your original post to show which chess computer played white
ProofReading Regards
Steve
CRoberson
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:31 am
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Dedicated Machine: Easy/Beginner Level rating project

Post by CRoberson »

Steve B wrote:
CRoberson wrote:Since you have finished 4 with Fd 4, I have to play catch up.

A nice game by both, but won by Pooky. Goes all the way to a king and pawns
endgame.

[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2009.04.14"]
[Black "Pooky 2.7"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D05"]
[Opening "Colle"]
[Time "17:06:09"]
[Variation "3...e6 4.Nbd2"]
[BlackElo "1552"]
[TimeControl "40/900:40/900:40/900"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "124"]
White was the Citrine on Fd4?
if so i can edit your original post to show which chess computer played white
ProofReading Regards
Steve
Oh, my mistake. It was the Sapphire II
Steve B
Posts: 3697
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:26 pm

Re: Dedicated Machine: Easy/Beginner Level rating project

Post by Steve B »

CRoberson wrote:
Steve B wrote:
CRoberson wrote:Since you have finished 4 with Fd 4, I have to play catch up.

A nice game by both, but won by Pooky. Goes all the way to a king and pawns
endgame.

[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2009.04.14"]
[Black "Pooky 2.7"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D05"]
[Opening "Colle"]
[Time "17:06:09"]
[Variation "3...e6 4.Nbd2"]
[BlackElo "1552"]
[TimeControl "40/900:40/900:40/900"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "124"]
White was the Citrine on Fd4?
if so i can edit your original post to show which chess computer played white
ProofReading Regards
Steve
Oh, my mistake. It was the Sapphire II
OK
Post Edited Regards
Steve
CRoberson
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:31 am
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Dedicated Machine: Easy/Beginner Level rating project

Post by CRoberson »

Ok, 2nd game of Pooky vs Citrine Fd 3. Citrine looses.
This makes sense considering our data reveals the Citrine is
weaker than the Sapphire II at corresponding fixed depth levels.

Next, I'll run matches between Citrine and Yawce.

[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2009.06.29"]
[White "Pooky 2.7"]
[Black "Novag Citrine Level FD 3"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "1552"]
[ECO "D25"]
[Opening "QGA"]
[Time "23:45:54"]
[Variation "Janowski-Larsen, 6.O-O"]
[TimeControl "40/900:40/900:40/900"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "55"]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 Bg4 5.Bxc4 {(Bf1xc4 e7e6 Qd1a4+ Nb8c6 00 Bf8e7)
+0.69/5} e6 6.O-O {(00 Nb8c6 Bc1d2 Bf8d6 Qd1b3) +0.66/5} Nbd7 7.h3 {(h2h3 Bg4h5 Qd1b3
Bh5xf3 g2xf3 Nd7b6 Bc4d3 Bf8d6) +0.04/8 22} Bh5 8.Nbd2 {(Nb1d2 Bf8d6 e3e4 Nd7b6 e4e5
Bd6b4 e5xf6 Bb4xd2 f6xg7) +0.49/7 22} Bd6 9.e4 {(e3e4 e6e5 Qd1b3 Ra8b8 Qb3a4 e5xd4
Nf3xd4) +0.27/7 22} e5 10.Qb3 {(Qd1b3 Qd8b8 Nf3xe5 Nd7xe5 d4xe5 Bd6xe5 f2f4) +0.40/7
22} exd4 11.Qxb7 {(Qb3xb7 c7c5 Qb7c6 Bd6f4 e4e5 Ra8c8 Qc6b5) +0.40/7 22} c5 12.Qc6
{(Qb7c6 Bd6f4 e4e5 Bh5xf3 Nd2xf3 Ra8c8 Qc6a4 Bf4xc1 Rf1xc1) +0.70/7 22} Bf4 13.e5
{(e4e5 Nf6g8 Qc6d6 Ra8c8 Bc4a6 Rc8a8 Nd2e4) +0.63/7 23} Rc8 14.Qa4 {(Qc6a4 Nf6g8 Nd2e4
Bf4xc1 Ra1xc1 Ke8f8 e5e6 Bh5xf3 g2xf3 f7xe6 Bc4xe6) +1.45/7 23} Bxd2 15.exf6 {(e5xf6
Bd2xc1 f6xg7 Rh8g8 Ra1xc1 Rg8xg7 Rf1e1+ Ke8f8) +1.77/5} Bxc1 16.fxg7 {(f6xg7 Rh8g8
Rf1e1+ Bc1e3 f2xe3 Rg8xg7 e3xd4+ Ke8f8 g2g4 Nd7b6) +2.23/6 24} Rg8 17.Raxc1 {(Ra1xc1
Rg8xg7 Rf1e1+ Ke8f8 Bc4d5 Bh5xf3 Bd5xf3) +1.97/5} Rxg7 18.Ne5 {(Nf3e5 Rg7xg2+ Kg1xg2
Qd8g5+ Ne5g4 Bh5xg4 h3xg4 Qg5xg4+ Kg2h1 Qg4f3+ Kh1g1) +3.33/7 25} a6 19.Rfe1 {(Rf1e1
Rg7xg2+ Kg1xg2 Qd8g5+ Kg2h2 Qg5f4+ Kh2h1 Qf4f5 Ne5xd7+ Ke8d8) +7.76/6 25} Qc7 20.Nxd7+
{(Ne5xd7+ Ke8d8 Nd7f6 Rg7xg2+ Kg1xg2 Bh5f3+ Kg2xf3 Qc7b7+ Kf3g3 Qb7xb2 Nf6xh7) +10.92/6
25} Kd8 21.Nf6 {(Nd7f6 Rg7xg2+ Kg1xg2 Qc7c6+ Qa4xc6 Rc8xc6 Nf6xh5 f7f5 Nh5g7)
+10.31/7 26} Rxg2+ 22.Kxg2 {(Kg1xg2 Qc7c6+ Qa4xc6 Rc8xc6 Nf6xh5 Rc6g6+ Nh5g3 Rg6f6
Re1e5) +10.25/8 26} Bf3+ 23.Kg1 {(Kg2g1 Qc7c6 Qa4a5+ Rc8c7 Re1e8+ Qc6xe8 Nf6xe8 Kd8xe8
Qa5xc7) +13.60/7 26} Qg3+ 24.fxg3 {(f2xg3 Rc8c6 Bc4xa6 Bf3h1 Kg1xh1 Rc6xf6 Rc1xc5)
+19.30/5} Kc7 25.Re7+ {(Re1e7+ Kc7b8 Qa4xa6 Rc8d8 Qa6b6+ Kb8c8 Re7c7+ Kc8xc7) +99.92/4}
Kb8 26.Qxa6 {(Qa4xa6 Rc8c6 Qa6a7+ Kb8c8 Re7e8+ Rc6xf6) +99.94/3} Rd8 27.Qb6+
{(Qa6b6+ Kb8c8 Bc4a6+ Bf3b7 Qb6xb7+ Kc8xb7) +99.94/2} Ka8 28.Qxd8# {(Qb6xd8+ h7h6)
+99.98/1} {Mate} 1-0
CRoberson
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:31 am
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Dedicated Machine: Easy/Beginner Level rating project

Post by CRoberson »

This is the first of 4 remaining games to estimate the Citrine
on level FD 3. These games will be against Yawce 0.16 which
is rated at 1290 on WBEC.

The Citrine started out with an early lead. It gobbled up 3 pawns
fairly early. Yawce strikes back by trapping the Citrine's queen.
Yawce keeps it together for the win.

I must admit that it is quite the joy to play with the Citrine.
It seems a joy no matter the method I play it. Whether I am
playing it, I am the interface to a computer or it is a direct interface
to a program on my laptop (DGT style), I just enjoy it.


[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2009.07.05"]
[White "Novag Citrine level FD 3"]
[Black "Yawce v0.16"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C40"]
[Opening "Elephant Gambit"]
[Time "23:41:43"]
[Variation "3.exd5"]
[BlackElo "1290"]
[TimeControl "40/900:40/900:40/900"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "106"]


1.e4 e5 {(e7e5 b1c3 c7c5 d2d3 d7d6 g1f3) -2.75/6 4} 2.Nf3 d5 {(d7d5 e4d5 e5e4
d2d4 c7c6 c1g5 d8d5) -2.25/6 4} 3.exd5 Nf6 {(d8d5 f1e2 e5e4 b1c3 d5c6) -2.21/5 4}
4.Nxe5 Qxd5 {(d8d5 d1e2 h8g8 b1c3 d5a5) -2.75/5 4} 5.Qe2 Be7 {(f8e7 b1c3 d5e6 e2b5
b8c6) -2.43/5 4} 6.Nc3 Qd8 {(d5d8 d2d4 d8d4 c3b5 d4d8) -1.98/5 4} 7.d3 Nc6 {(b8c6
c1f4 c6d4 e2d1 e8g8) -2.08/5 5} 8.Nxc6 bxc6 {(b7c6 e2d2 e8g8 f1e2 g7g5 e1g1) -2.25/6
4} 9.Qf3 O-O {(e8g8 f1e2 c8g4 f3c6 g4e2 c3e2) -1.82/6 5} 10.Qxc6 Bd7 {(c8d7 c6f3
c7c5 f3e2 h7h5 c1e3) -1.45/6 4} 11.Qc4 Be6 {(d7e6 c4f4 d8b8 f4d2 c7c5) -0.83/5 4}
12.Qc6 Bd7 {(e6d7) 0.00/6 4} 13.Qc4 Be6 {(d7e6) 0.00/6 4} 14.Qa4 Qc8 {(d8c8 c1f4 e6d7
a4b3 c7c5) -0.78/5 4} 15.Be2 c5 {(c7c5 e1g1 e6d7 a4c4 a7a5) -1.78/5 4} 16.Bf3 Bd7
{(e6d7 a4f4 a8b8 f4e5 d7e6 e1g1) -2.17/6 4} 17.Qa5 Bd8 {(e7d8 a5a3 a8b8 e1g1 a7a5
c1e3) -2.26/6 5} 18.Qa3 Rb8 {(a8b8 e1g1 a7a5 c1f4 b8b4 c3e4) -2.46/6 4} 19.Qxa7 Re8+
{(f8e8 c1e3 d8b6 a7a3 g7g5) -1.54/5 4} 20.Ne2 Re6 {(e8e6 c1f4 b8b2 e1c1 d8b6) -1.61/5
4} 21.Qa3 Ra6 {(e6a6 a3a6 c8a6 e1g1 a6c8 c2c4) +0.01/6 4} 22.Qc3 Ba5 {(d8a5 e1g1
a5c3 b2c3 h7h5) +2.39/5 5} 23.O-O Bxc3 {(a5c3 e2c3 g7g5 c1g5 b8b2 a1c1) +2.20/6 4}
24.Nxc3 h5 {(d7g4 f3e4 f6e4 d3e4 h7h5) +2.41/5 4} 25.Re1 Bg4 {(d7g4 c3d5 f6d5 f3d5
g7g6) +2.54/5 4} 26.Bxg4 hxg4 {(h5g4 b2b3 g7g6 a2a4 a6e6 c1f4) +2.49/6 4} 27.Rb1 Re6
{(g7g6 a2a4 f6h5 c1e3 f7f5) +2.82/5 4} 28.Rxe6 fxe6 {(f7e6 c1f4 b8a8 h2h3 g4h3 g2h3)
+2.78/6 5} 29.Bf4 Ra8 {(b8a8 a2a3 f6d5 c3e2 d5f4 e2f4) +2.88/6 4} 30.Re1 Nd5 {(f6d5
c3d5 e6d5 a2a3 d5d4 f2f3) +3.26/6 5} 31.Nxd5 exd5 {(e6d5 a2a3 d5d4 f2f3 g4f3 g2f3)
+3.21/6 5} 32.a3 Ra4 {(d5d4 f4d2 a8b8 b2b4 c5b4 a3b4 c8c2) +3.29/5 5} 33.Bg3 c4 {(c5c4
d3d4 g7g6 f2f3 g4f3 g2f3) +3.03/6 4} 34.dxc4 Rxc4 {(a4c4 c2c3 g7g6 e1d1 c4c5 a3a4)
+2.85/6 4} 35.c3 Re4 {(c4e4 e1d1 e4e2 b2b4 c8c3 b4b5 c3a3 d1d5) +2.90/6 4} 36.Rxe4 dxe4
{(d5e4 g3f4 c8e6 b2b4 e6b3 h2h3 g4h3 g2h3 b3c3) +3.87/7 4} 37.a4 Qd7 {(c8d7 h2h3 d7a4
h3g4 a4d1 g1h2 d1g4) +4.33/7 4} 38.h3 gxh3 {(g4h3 a4a5 d7d2 g2h3 d2b2 f2f4 e4f3)
+4.81/7 4} 39.a5 Qd2 {(d7d2 g2h3 d2b2 c3c4 b2a1 g1g2 a1a5) +5.02/7 4} 40.gxh3 Qxb2
{(d2b2 c3c4 g7g5 g1g2 b2c2 h3h4 g5h4) +5.24/7 4} 41.Kg2 Qxc3 {(b2c3 a5a6 c3a1 f2f4
a1a6 h3h4 a6d6) +6.06/7 4} 42.a6 Qf3+ {(c3f3 g2h2 f3a3 h2g2 g7g5 f2f3 a3f3 g2h2)
+6.33/7 4} 43.Kf1 Qd3+ {(f3d3 f1g2 d3a6 f2f4 a6e2 g2g1 g7g6) +6.49/7 4} 44.Kg2 Qxa6
{(d3a6 f2f4 a6e2 g2g1 g7g5 f4g5 e2e3 g1g2 e3g5) +6.68/7 4} 45.h4 Qe2 {(a6e2 g2g1 g7g5
h4g5 e2g4 g5g6 g4g6) +6.88/6 4} 46.Kh2 Qf1 {(e2f1 g3d6 f1f2 h2h3 f2f6 d6c7 g7g5)
+7.81/7 4} 47.h5 Kf7 {(g8f7 g3b8 f1b5 b8d6 b5h5 h2g2 g7g5) +8.26/7 4} 48.Bh4 Qb5 {(f1b5
h2g2 b5h5 h4g3 h5d5 g3f4 g7g5) +8.56/7 4} 49.Kg3 Qxh5 {(b5h5 h4d8 h5f3 g3h4 f3f2
h4g4 f2d4) +9.08/7 4} 50.Bd8 Qf3+ {(h5f3 g3h2 f3f2 h2h3 f2d2 d8h4 g7g5) +9.53/7 4}
51.Kh4 Kg6 {(f7g6 d8b6 g6f5 b6c7 g7g5) +M2/7 4} 52.Bc7 Kf5 {(g6f5 c7d6 g7g5) +M1/8 4}
53.Bd6 g5# {(g7g5) +M0/8 4} {Mate} 0-1
Steve B
Posts: 3697
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:26 pm

Re: Dedicated Machine: Easy/Beginner Level rating project

Post by Steve B »

CRoberson wrote:
I must admit that it is quite the joy to play with the Citrine.
It seems a joy no matter the method I play it. Whether I am
playing it, I am the interface to a computer or it is a direct interface
to a program on my laptop (DGT style), I just enjoy it.
i know that feeling well
having to stay at the board..watching the evals swing up and down after every new move
pulling for the computer to win or rooting for it to lose
of course just standing idly by as it interfaces is not my idea of fun but just as long as i am involved in some way...it is great fun

Human Interface Regards
Steve
User avatar
Jaimes Conda
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 11:18 pm
Location: For now the planet Earth

Re: Dedicated Machine: Easy/Beginner Level rating project

Post by Jaimes Conda »

Steve B wrote:
CRoberson wrote:
I must admit that it is quite the joy to play with the Citrine.
It seems a joy no matter the method I play it. Whether I am
playing it, I am the interface to a computer or it is a direct interface
to a program on my laptop (DGT style), I just enjoy it.
i know that feeling well
having to stay at the board..watching the evals swing up and down after every new move
pulling for the computer to win or rooting for it to lose
of course just standing idly by as it interfaces is not my idea of fun but just as long as i am involved in some way...it is great fun

Human Interface Regards
Steve
Steve,
Hello. Have you played any games with the Novag Citrine against Novag's Super Experts A,B or C?
Have you any idea of the Citrines playing style compared to these models?

Jaimes
Veritas Vos Liberabit
Steve B
Posts: 3697
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:26 pm

Re: Dedicated Machine: Easy/Beginner Level rating project

Post by Steve B »

Jaimes Conda wrote:
Steve B wrote:
CRoberson wrote:
I must admit that it is quite the joy to play with the Citrine.
It seems a joy no matter the method I play it. Whether I am
playing it, I am the interface to a computer or it is a direct interface
to a program on my laptop (DGT style), I just enjoy it.
i know that feeling well
having to stay at the board..watching the evals swing up and down after every new move
pulling for the computer to win or rooting for it to lose
of course just standing idly by as it interfaces is not my idea of fun but just as long as i am involved in some way...it is great fun

Human Interface Regards
Steve
Steve,
Hello. Have you played any games with the Novag Citrine against Novag's Super Experts A,B or C?
Have you any idea of the Citrines playing style compared to these models?

Jaimes
HI Jaimes
while i have played many games with the Citrine i do not like to play two engines from the same programmer against each other
i think it gives a strong advantage to the more recent engine and results in an overstated ELO for the newer engine
i know that some collectors did play the Citrine against various version of the Super Expert and the Citrine won those matches fairly convincingly

Best Regards
Steve
User avatar
Jaimes Conda
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 11:18 pm
Location: For now the planet Earth

Re: Dedicated Machine: Easy/Beginner Level rating project

Post by Jaimes Conda »

Steve B wrote:
Jaimes Conda wrote:
Steve B wrote:
CRoberson wrote:
I must admit that it is quite the joy to play with the Citrine.
It seems a joy no matter the method I play it. Whether I am
playing it, I am the interface to a computer or it is a direct interface
to a program on my laptop (DGT style), I just enjoy it.
i know that feeling well
having to stay at the board..watching the evals swing up and down after every new move
pulling for the computer to win or rooting for it to lose
of course just standing idly by as it interfaces is not my idea of fun but just as long as i am involved in some way...it is great fun

Human Interface Regards
Steve
Steve,
Hello. Have you played any games with the Novag Citrine against Novag's Super Experts A,B or C?
Have you any idea of the Citrines playing style compared to these models?

Jaimes
HI Jaimes
while i have played many games with the Citrine i do not like to play two engines from the same programmer against each other
i think it gives a strong advantage to the more recent engine and results in an overstated ELO for the newer engine
i know that some collectors did play the Citrine against various version of the Super Expert and the Citrine won those matches fairly convincingly

Best Regards
Steve
Steve,
Actually strength is not my concerne. A 1700 elo machine is enough for me. My interesse is more in the playing style. I understand the Super Novag B has a very agressive play style and I wondered if the Citrine had this style of play. If it does and given it can also be raccorded to a computer I may concidere purchasing the Novag Citrine Senator Chess Computer

http://www.chessbaron.biz/chess-computers.php

Jaimes
Veritas Vos Liberabit
Steve B
Posts: 3697
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:26 pm

Re: Dedicated Machine: Easy/Beginner Level rating project

Post by Steve B »

Jaimes Conda wrote:
Steve,
Actually strength is not my concerne. A 1700 elo machine is enough for me. My interesse is more in the playing style. I understand the Super Novag B has a very agressive play style and I wondered if the Citrine had this style of play. If it does and given it can also be raccorded to a computer I may concidere purchasing the Novag Citrine Senator Chess Computer

http://www.chessbaron.biz/chess-computers.php

Jaimes
well for my opinion all of Kittingers engines have a very aggressive playing style against humans
in fact i find Kittingers program the most human like and natural to play against
but i cannot say that the Citrine exhibits any more of this characteristic then other kittinger programs

the Citrine Senator is very handsome but my understanding is the only difference between it and the normal Citrine are the pieces
the pieces for the normal Citrine are a bit small especially the pawns
Regards
Steve