kranium wrote:Graham Banks wrote:slobo wrote:
Norm, keep on working on your clone.
If Tord is really the original author, keep him informed what you are doing. It is only the problem between you two. Keep the "mob" far from it.
What a sick and sad attitude. No wonder there are illegal clones around when people like you encourage them. You should be ashamed!
a small part of the executable for Rybka 1.0 was decompiled and many many dozens of lines of code were found to match Fruit 2.1 almost excatly...
the chess engine community tyrned a blind eye and said 'no problem'...
it it the chess engine community itself that did the most promote 'illegal' clones by not acting on this clear and compelling evidence that Rybka 1.0 was illegitimate derivative of Fruit 2.1.
http://www.chesslogik.com/controversies/
To all.
I offer Norman my support if he's interested in email exchangees, not as a programmer collegue but as a human friend with experience in psychology.
Then I would ask the few supporters of the CC experts like Slobo, Alexander Schmidt (sic) and Matthias, that they please may consider what they are really doing. They support someone who believes in nonsense so that he could never come out of the false perception.
Your strategy is simply flawed and your arguments nonsense. I repeat what I have written before. Let's say we have something suspicious. The question then is what you could do. Will you make theories or will you prove something. In a legal manner. Because your theories themselves dont prove what you want to allegate. Proof is what we all waited for but what never came. And note, it's NOT decisive of what standing or fame the theory makers are coming from. Theories remain theories and they are not proof.
Here we no longer have the problem if someone could present the proof because that could still happen in theory, but that we know by now tha a dear friend of ours here is losing HIS standing by repeatedly commiting the same mistake in a sort of martyyr style to force his buddies to not forget the theories about the wrong doing with Rybka 1 as he wrote but that was in truth Rybka 1 beta, which was given as a present before then the author went into deep mode and then created a fantastic new engine which then was sold since then in now three main versions. Nobody ever had the nerves to imply that also Rybka 3 were a "...." of Fruit, nobody.
I beg you all, please reconsider, not the Rybka beta stuff but what this whole topic is doing with your friend Norman. He is totally misleaden with his stubborn activities but he wouldnt do this if at least his teamsters would help him to see how he should continue without fooling his own friends.
Here is the proof for the logical flaw in Norman's thoughts. And of course he fails to grasp this because he misunderstands that a suspicion or a climate of lynching alone is not a legal or legitimate tool to make a court verdict against Vas. Nobody here among the programmers, no matter what they did in their dark chamber could officially be presented here in the public because the method itself is a so called violation of the law. And as Bob told me even he saw no sense in making activities to incite a court case against Vas. But if that is so, the rumor should stop because then it becomes part of that so called lynching climate. And Vas wont do you the favor to play Jesus. And I assist that because where are all the commercial guys who opened their source code???
So, one other time, please leave this topic alone if you see with your own eyes that some cant bear the tension and enter idiotic activities with the doubtable motivation of just wanting to clarify things about Rybka 1 Beta.
Someone should also explain in feasable description why the whole Strelka stuff is NOT proving what it was intended for, also not under the light how it looked how Vas was almost forced to react. But even that didnt give you a case against him.
And also this: do you all believe that the established VIP of the ICGA are total fools so that they would let win Rybka if it were illegal but Toga and Naum dont participate. Doesnt this tell you much about the whole nonsense of thecampaign against Vas?
Finally I repeat the more technical and logical refutation of the nonsense against Vas and his Rybka.
Norm is obsessed by the Strelka logic thing that
a) if Strelka is almost a Fruit and
b) Strelka is in parts similar to Rybka
that then
c) Rybka must by force and mathematical evidence be also Fruit.
That is crap high five.
That having said it's again important to mentin that we are talking about Rybka 1 beta whgich came as a present to the many friends. And which THEn already was much stronger than it's alleged brother or father or mother.
A last calamity for someone like Norm and others. They think that the logic went this way round:
Vas commited a well just for the argument let me say crime. Although nobody said that.
And because his Rybka is so strong and much stronger than the rest, a crime is defined as nothing, as peanuts, as if it were justified by the strength alone.
That is nonsense again. It's just not true. The point is that the genius of Vas who could understand Fruit better than anybody else, allowed him to build his own baby by using the intelligence Fabien had put into Fruit. But that isnt making a clone.
And again and then I have made my point, it's fahrlässig as we say in German if then the big ones among our experts because they themselves have no clue and couldnt write something similar, that they did never clarify that the potential case could really be that a genius wrote such an entity WITHOUT being in the trap of commiting a fraud. And hence we had never a court case at all even if a millionaire came along and would spend his money for such a case.
The superiority of Vas didnt justify a crime if no crime ever has happened! And the genius of Vas should simply be accepted after so many time after version 1 beta which was for free. Because from where did Vas take the next crimes in Rybka 2 and now version 3 that is always out of reach for the others especially the known commercials. Because if he took Fruit in crime uno, what engine was on the market that he could have taken then in crimes duo and tres??????
Folks I beg you in all honesty, come back to normal to save your friend Norman who simply couldnt understand the details. Or are you in the silent applauding him. I dont want to enter such nonsense theories. No?
To CHris in particular: if Norm's tech was so sloppy that you could detect the clone so easily, how could you then make the conclusion that Norm couldnt do better, because we know that he wanted to get caught. Let's not make such negative verdicts bout our friends.
To all the testers and Leo: Please dont take the engines for holier than they really are. Bob taught me that clones will always appear now ad then so that you then dont know for sure what it is what you are testing. Just take it with a mature perception that Norm didnt want to betray you when he was busy with his undercover activities.
Let's come back to normal and respect each other and that we have peace again.
Best to all the many innocent programmers around and may your inspiraqtion give you much satisfaction with your hobby.
Rolf
