ACCA stance on Ippo, Robbo and such

[bob]

But what would happen if the strongest available Toga was entered that is clearly stronger than the last release of Fruit but then Fabien has a new Beta of Fruit that he wants to enter? I think the decision should be up to the original author or who ever he delegates the decision to in the case of Fruit that is Ryan.

I don't think so. The original author gave up the right to make that decision in a legally binding way the very moment he released his sources under GPL. And the GPL cannot be renegociated, if in hindsight persons have used your code in a way that is not so hot after all.

If the original author would contribute in any way to preventing usage of the code as if it was your own, it would be breach of contract, and he would be punishable by law.

Where do you get that interpretation from? One can release the source under GPL without giving up _any_ rights with regard to entering computer chess events. In ICCA/ICGA/CCT/etc events, the _author_ of the program chooses which version to enter. One can choose to "pass the torch" to a new person, if he wants, and designate that new person as "the author of record". But there is only one author of a program, even if it is a team.

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

I made a statement recently that the war has begun, but some thought otherwise. Now, Stockfish is being attacked from all angles. Why? Because it is now showing tremendous strength and is a competitor. Dirty politics have entered the arena. Of course politics does not need dirty prefix.

I believe this discussion has existed since the dawn of times. It was there when Toga appeared, and it's here now. It has little to do with Stockfish itself. I've had this discussion with hgm about Joker and MicroMax, and (sorry hgm), I don't think those are "showing tremendous strength".

So I'm afraid the one that actually brought politics into this is just you.

[bob]

So if we have to pick 1 GPL derivative of Fruit - who decides which one? Does it have to be released already? Which ratings list do we use to decide on the version?

If the tournament organizer does not want to have multiple programs that similar in his tournament, the burden is on him to make this decision. Of course this would only happen in practice when there were actually two derivatives that were both trying to register, and could not agree who of them would have to step down.

It would be in the interest of the tournament to admit the strongest version. In most cases it will be clear which one that is. If not, you can flip a coin, or require the would-be participants to play a qualification match. If I were a TD faced with this decision, I would do the latter.

I would simply do what we already do, and have done for years, and let the primary author decide.

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

Where do you get that interpretation from? One can release the source under GPL without giving up _any_ rights with regard to entering computer chess events. In ICCA/ICGA/CCT/etc events, the _author_ of the program chooses which version to enter. One can choose to "pass the torch" to a new person, if he wants, and designate that new person as "the author of record". But there is only one author of a program, even if it is a team.

I think the point was that the author himself cannot forbit it. This is different from Crafty, which explicitly forbids this, IIRC.

But of course, sane tournament organizers are free to make up their own limitations on what is allowable to enter.

[tano-urayoan]

Ok first you ask this: "I disagree, in certain cases silence is worse than speaking out loud. Couldnt you make a comment on the ropilito affair with the displaying of stolen Rybka code? You or any other in the team?"
Coming from this statement by Marco: "Participating in tournaments is an important marketing activity for commercial engines. Luckily we don't have this burden nor we want to damage other people's business."

What your question has to do with Marco's original statement?

Then you said: "You say that you are happy not depending on commercial problems and that you didnt want to harm other peopl's business. Well, I am sure you heard from the ilito case. In case of an already commited damage why not comment if it's true that you at least allegedly dont want to cause damage.

And yes, I'm not a friend of Stockfish (!) who made a big jump after the published R code. So far what damages are concerned. Or do you think that Vasik, the author of R wanted you and the World to know his code? So far about damages..."

What this has to do with Marco's original statement?
You just hate Stockfish and want to bash its authors that is plain and simple no psychology needed for that.

Because you finished with this brilliant statement "Moral: if taken stuff from R are in Stockfish (!) then Stockfish authors do in fact harm Vasik's Rybka business!"

Again you just want to attack Stockfish you whatever twisted reason your mind has created.

[kingliveson]

I made a statement recently that the war has begun, but some thought otherwise. Now, Stockfish is being attacked from all angles. Why? Because it is now showing tremendous strength and is a competitor. Dirty politics have entered the arena. Of course politics does not need dirty prefix.

I believe this discussion has existed since the dawn of times. It was there when Toga appeared, and it's here now. It has little to do with Stockfish itself. I've had this discussion with hgm about Joker and MicroMax, and (sorry hgm), I don't think those are "showing tremendous strength".

So I'm afraid the one that actually brought politics into this is just you.

Lol, you think am the one who brought politics into this?

[slobo]

Moral: if taken stuff from R are in Stockfish (!) then Stockfish authors do in fact harm Vasik's Rybka business!

Are you his employed ? In what role you state what and what not hurts Rybka's buisness ?

Scientifical observer (with logic applied!)

More likely a diagnosed nutcase....

Unfortunately, in Rolf's case there in nothing of a nutcase. It is something much more serious. Look below:

“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”
Joseph Goebbels quotes

[K I Hyams]

As a psychologists I am experienced in understanding what people said otherwise I could always ask again.

I don't usually need to resort to emoticons but words fail me on that one.
(':?')(':shock:'jn(':?:')(':lol:'))(':o') (':?:')

[Rolf]

Moral: if taken stuff from R are in Stockfish (!) then Stockfish authors do in fact harm Vasik's Rybka business!

Are you his employed ? In what role you state what and what not hurts Rybka's buisness ?

Scientifical observer (with logic applied!)

More likely a diagnosed nutcase....

Unfortunately, in Rolf's case there in nothing of a nutcase. It is something much more serious. Look below:

“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”
Joseph Goebbels quotes

So can I take this as proof that I'm not nuts? If not I then you must be the case. No, but answer me, how can I play a chessgame with Radovan? Please hurry up! In January!

[Rolf]

As a psychologists I am experienced in understanding what people said otherwise I could always ask again.

I don't usually need to resort to emoticons but words fail me on that one.
(':?')(':shock:'jn(':?:')(':lol:'))(':o') (':?:')

Hehe. At least I talk while you put Atomic Bombs on noses of little kids. That's why I cant find you very communicative. Apart from the difference that I crawl into the mind of the people. You hate me for this?