Houdini - Cluster Rybka encounter....

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kgburcham
Posts: 2016
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:19 pm

Re: Houdini - Cluster Rybka encounter....

Post by kgburcham »

The word "fall" indicates that the particular engine is no more at the top of the particular rating list.......
Bearing in mind this definition,it's not a strange terminology Shimon,it's simply a fact......
Dr.D
Do you watch Carlsen and tell everyone around you, "don't worry he will fall someday"
did you do it with tiger woods, Michael Jordan, Mohammed Ali, Jimmy Johnson, George ST. Pierre, etc....
why would you just keep telling people that a certain program or a certain person is going to fall?
No one in my past kept telling people, "just wait Chessmaster will fall"
I have purchased every program in the past, and this time I refused the discount upgrade because of my appreciation for the program.
Robert Houdart and Vas are temporary, just passing through, they wont be here long. Look do I have to list all of the badasses, no I don't----Ed in his time was a badass at the top of his game but he is out of energy and ideas, what about Hyatt, damn, do we have to go there, a PHD, a whole life of chess accomplishments, at one time Hyatt had the best and was the best, but his time at the top is over, it takes a huge amount of time and energy to tune plus having new and good ideas, we are lucky just to have him here to answer questions, and all of the other badasses that have written programs even if they are only 1700 to 2600....but and this is a big but...look at the past history of improvements, no one has done what Vas and Robert Houdart has done for me and most others, of course Shredder and Junior were fun, damn many many hours of fun I got out of all of my programs, but when Rybka came along I could tell I had a big gun, it was different from all of my other programs, I could create a new ID at any chess server and in two days be at the highest rating with top hardware, I could not do it with other programs at the time. With Shredder and Tiger with a good book and good hardware I could slowly get to the top, then Houdini, Just go look at all of the badasses at chessbase, I mean the badass operators and owners, they will only play with the best, best book best hardware, best program, those top guys are only there for the blood, ask one of them to use Junior, Shredder, Rybka, etc....wont happen.
My point is, For gamers, and some others that only want the best, if someone else does not step up, we could be stuck with Houdin 3 elo for a long time if we lose Robert Houdart. We probably are stuck with the final version of Rybka forever. Do any of the existing programmers have the ability to improve Houdini or Rybka elo...doubt it.
ask yourself, when Robert Houdart and Vas are gone, who is left and what have they shown us they can do to raise a program above the very top elo strength, so far all of the other programmers have peaked out, they are out of ideas for strength. of course they have the free code that is floating around but it takes a lot of energy to implement and tune---and that is only if they can, many cannot.
I have read every post on code stealing and I have read both sides.
It seems Rybka was reverse-engineered and put on the internet as open source as Ippolit or Robbolitto, If I was in the business, I would say sorry Vas that that happened, and then I would use the open source.
It seems you Deeb have appointed yourself the task of being MR anti Houdart. I don't know what your qualifications are to assume this role. why didn't ED appoint himself, why didn't Hyatt appoint himself, what about Critters author, why doesn't he do it?
I hope you and others don't run off Robert Houdart before his time is up.
and another thing, I don't consider your reply an attack.
It is not how much you can take, it is how much you can take and still keep moving forward without taking it personal.
kgburcham
Last edited by kgburcham on Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
S.Taylor
Posts: 8514
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: Jerusalem Israel

Re: Houdini - Cluster Rybka encounter....

Post by S.Taylor »

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
S.Taylor wrote:
AdminX wrote:
S.Taylor wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:Houdini will fall sooner than later and you will be defending the new king of the hill eventually......
Infinite loop regards,
Dr.D
Houdini can't fall.
It is computerized, it will keep its strength.
I might add it will keep its strengths as well as it's weakness. Same goes for Cluster Rybka.
I mean, even if another engine overtakes something to become number one, the older number one cannot "fall". It's a strange terminology for computers. It will stay as it is. It will still see the same combinations etc.
The word "fall" indicates that the particular engine is no more at the top of the particular rating list.......

Bearing in mind this definition,it's not a strange terminology Shimon,it's simply a fact......
Dr.D
Oh yes! depends what you are looking for.
I was looking for something that is better than Rybka 4.1.
It won't fall from there.
And when it WILL fall to Komodo, Rybka, Stockfish or next Houdini or something else, THAT one will ALSO fall. Until the endeavor ends.
But what are you trying to say? That no one should be happy now?
yanquis1972
Posts: 1766
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:14 am

Re: Houdini - Cluster Rybka encounter....

Post by yanquis1972 »

nice post, agreed with all but one point. i am very confident komodo will rival houdini within a year or two.
S.Taylor
Posts: 8514
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: Jerusalem Israel

Re: Houdini - Cluster Rybka encounter....

Post by S.Taylor »

Good Luck!
Yes, I'm SURE some top programmers are working very hard and i wish them success! (In seeing the fruit.... Oh no! that last part was a rather unfortunate pun!!! :cry: [just to be sure, it was a stupid old pun. 100%]). Good Luck.
kgburcham
Posts: 2016
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:19 pm

Re: Houdini - Cluster Rybka encounter....

Post by kgburcham »

yanquis1972 wrote:nice post, agreed with all but one point. i am very confident komodo will rival houdini within a year or two.
I know they are struggling with several issues.
I also read where Don said he is doing a complete re-write of the code.
I have not read any posts that give me the confidence you have in Komodo.
If Don can keep his energy level up and stays with the challenge and if Don is very motivated, then maybe. I will just watch and wait with the Komodo project. I use smp at chess servers so I did not buy Komodo.
kgburcham
IGarcia
Posts: 543
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:27 pm

Re: Houdini - Cluster Rybka encounter....

Post by IGarcia »

kgburcham wrote:
[...] but when Rybka came along I could tell I had a big gun, it was different from all of my other programs, I could create a new ID at any chess server and in two days be at the highest rating with top hardware, I could not do it with other programs at the time. With Shredder and Tiger with a good book and good hardware I could slowly get to the top, then Houdini, Just go look at all of the badasses at chessbase, I mean the badass operators and owners, they will only play with the best, best book best hardware, best program, those top guys are only there for the blood [...]

kgburcham
:shock: Sorry to be off-topic, but when I read posts like these quoted I really get lost about the people interests in this forum.

Of course I have to admit we all are different, but with too much frequency I found in this forums people I don't understand. Some time i think there are kids posting, and other time the post are so absurd making believe the author has some cognitive or language problem.

Now, in this post I realized how different we are. And if in a comic-forum something imagine a fight between HULK-BATMAN, why is not possible to see here something imagining here a Komodo5-MP 64 cpu vas Rybka-296 CPU 1 move a month 100 game match. Worst: making a POLL about the outcome... and even worst: so many people voting! :lol: indicating the one hight is not alone!!

Sory if I'm rude. There is no intention to hurt. Maybe I'm really looking for other stuff here.I would like to see a poll about what do we expect on this forums, witch are our interests. Why we need a chess engine? etc

Regards.
Igna.
gotogo
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:03 am

Re: Houdini - Cluster Rybka encounter....

Post by gotogo »

kgburcham wrote:
The word "fall" indicates that the particular engine is no more at the top of the particular rating list.......
Bearing in mind this definition,it's not a strange terminology Shimon,it's simply a fact......
Dr.D
Do you watch Carlsen and tell everyone around you, "don't worry he will fall someday"
did you do it with tiger woods, Michael Jordan, Mohammed Ali, Jimmy Johnson, George ST. Pierre, etc....
why would you just keep telling people that a certain program or a certain person is going to fall?
No one in my past kept telling people, "just wait Chessmaster will fall"
I have purchased every program in the past, and this time I refused the discount upgrade because of my appreciation for the program.
Robert Houdart and Vas are temporary, just passing through, they wont be here long. Look do I have to list all of the badasses, no I don't----Ed in his time was a badass at the top of his game but he is out of energy and ideas, what about Hyatt, damn, do we have to go there, a PHD, a whole life of chess accomplishments, at one time Hyatt had the best and was the best, but his time at the top is over, it takes a huge amount of time and energy to tune plus having new and good ideas, we are lucky just to have him here to answer questions, and all of the other badasses that have written programs even if they are only 1700 to 2600....but and this is a big but...look at the past history of improvements, no one has done what Vas and Robert Houdart has done for me and most others, of course Shredder and Junior were fun, damn many many hours of fun I got out of all of my programs, but when Rybka came along I could tell I had a big gun, it was different from all of my other programs, I could create a new ID at any chess server and in two days be at the highest rating with top hardware, I could not do it with other programs at the time. With Shredder and Tiger with a good book and good hardware I could slowly get to the top, then Houdini, Just go look at all of the badasses at chessbase, I mean the badass operators and owners, they will only play with the best, best book best hardware, best program, those top guys are only there for the blood, ask one of them to use Junior, Shredder, Rybka, etc....wont happen.
My point is, For gamers, and some others that only want the best, if someone else does not step up, we could be stuck with Houdin 3 elo for a long time if we lose Robert Houdart. We probably are stuck with the final version of Rybka forever. Do any of the existing programmers have the ability to improve Houdini or Rybka elo...doubt it.
ask yourself, when Robert Houdart and Vas are gone, who is left and what have they shown us they can do to raise a program above the very top elo strength, so far all of the other programmers have peaked out, they are out of ideas for strength. of course they have the free code that is floating around but it takes a lot of energy to implement and tune---and that is only if they can, many cannot.
I have read every post on code stealing and I have read both sides.
It seems Rybka was reverse-engineered and put on the internet as open source as Ippolit or Robbolitto, If I was in the business, I would say sorry Vas that that happened, and then I would use the open source.
It seems you Deeb have appointed yourself the task of being MR anti Houdart. I don't know what your qualifications are to assume this role. why didn't ED appoint himself, why didn't Hyatt appoint himself, what about Critters author, why doesn't he do it?
I hope you and others don't run off Robert Houdart before his time is up.
and another thing, I don't consider your reply an attack.
It is not how much you can take, it is how much you can take and still keep moving forward without taking it personal.
kgburcham


I doubt he will be run off any time soon. Robert is smarter than Vas. Just look at his next step. he is going to release a configurable Houdini3 with an official tuning tool.. it's not going to be free. so when sales die down alittle bit from aquarium and chessbase Robert will introduce another toy for us. So Robert will make money all year long.

Now when the configurable Houdini comes out Robert will be able to glean from all the people who buys the tune-able Houdini. I'm sure he has his own ideas but just look how this site found some problems that Robert will address in the next addition. the tune-able Houdini will bring about some changes as well. If he fixes the bitbases then I believe Houdini will play even better ending games. the games I played with bitbases had a lot of draws that should have been clearly won. If you took those drawn games and the ones won it would have won more games than the gav ts did.

To sum it up Robert is very bright and will give us what we want but at a price. Robert is also upgrading Houdini every year not like Vas who talks a big game but delivers nothing and keeps you hanging forever. Vas has not delivered on his word once! Robert on the other hand works months in advance getting ready so he does not disappoint us.

I think Houdini has a bright future.
kgburcham
Posts: 2016
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:19 pm

Re: Houdini - Cluster Rybka encounter....

Post by kgburcham »

IGarcia wrote:
kgburcham wrote:
[...] but when Rybka came along I could tell I had a big gun, it was different from all of my other programs, I could create a new ID at any chess server and in two days be at the highest rating with top hardware, I could not do it with other programs at the time. With Shredder and Tiger with a good book and good hardware I could slowly get to the top, then Houdini, Just go look at all of the badasses at chessbase, I mean the badass operators and owners, they will only play with the best, best book best hardware, best program, those top guys are only there for the blood [...]

kgburcham
:shock: Sorry to be off-topic, but when I read posts like these quoted I really get lost about the people interests in this forum.

Of course I have to admit we all are different, but with too much frequency I found in this forums people I don't understand. Some time i think there are kids posting, and other time the post are so absurd making believe the author has some cognitive or language problem.

Now, in this post I realized how different we are. And if in a comic-forum something imagine a fight between HULK-BATMAN, why is not possible to see here something imagining here a Komodo5-MP 64 cpu vas Rybka-296 CPU 1 move a month 100 game match. Worst: making a POLL about the outcome... and even worst: so many people voting! :lol: indicating the one hight is not alone!!

Sory if I'm rude. There is no intention to hurt. Maybe I'm really looking for other stuff here.I would like to see a poll about what do we expect on this forums, witch are our interests. Why we need a chess engine? etc
Regards.
Igna.
I don't understand your point.
If you are saying that you find the top elo games in the world boring, then I can understand what you mean.
To be the best gamer you have to play the best move each move, most programs cannot do it, and humans are far from it. It is another type of chess and I know it irritates the human that studies chess and can play the game OTB.
I appreciate the OTB player and the programmer that wrote the 2500 elo program. I know I should respect the guys that run tournaments with 2000 elo programs. I do.
Like I said, I am not sure your points so maybe I did not even reply.
I just went back and read your post again, not sure what you were saying, I wish I knew because it seemed full of energy and those are the best kind.
You wont hurt.
kgburcham
User avatar
Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9773
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:44 pm
Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: Houdini - Cluster Rybka encounter....

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb »

kgburcham wrote:
The word "fall" indicates that the particular engine is no more at the top of the particular rating list.......
Bearing in mind this definition,it's not a strange terminology Shimon,it's simply a fact......
Dr.D
Do you watch Carlsen and tell everyone around you, "don't worry he will fall someday"
did you do it with tiger woods, Michael Jordan, Mohammed Ali, Jimmy Johnson, George ST. Pierre, etc....
why would you just keep telling people that a certain program or a certain person is going to fall?
No one in my past kept telling people, "just wait Chessmaster will fall"
I have purchased every program in the past, and this time I refused the discount upgrade because of my appreciation for the program.
Robert Houdart and Vas are temporary, just passing through, they wont be here long. Look do I have to list all of the badasses, no I don't----Ed in his time was a badass at the top of his game but he is out of energy and ideas, what about Hyatt, damn, do we have to go there, a PHD, a whole life of chess accomplishments, at one time Hyatt had the best and was the best, but his time at the top is over, it takes a huge amount of time and energy to tune plus having new and good ideas, we are lucky just to have him here to answer questions, and all of the other badasses that have written programs even if they are only 1700 to 2600....but and this is a big but...look at the past history of improvements, no one has done what Vas and Robert Houdart has done for me and most others, of course Shredder and Junior were fun, damn many many hours of fun I got out of all of my programs, but when Rybka came along I could tell I had a big gun, it was different from all of my other programs, I could create a new ID at any chess server and in two days be at the highest rating with top hardware, I could not do it with other programs at the time. With Shredder and Tiger with a good book and good hardware I could slowly get to the top, then Houdini, Just go look at all of the badasses at chessbase, I mean the badass operators and owners, they will only play with the best, best book best hardware, best program, those top guys are only there for the blood, ask one of them to use Junior, Shredder, Rybka, etc....wont happen.
My point is, For gamers, and some others that only want the best, if someone else does not step up, we could be stuck with Houdin 3 elo for a long time if we lose Robert Houdart. We probably are stuck with the final version of Rybka forever. Do any of the existing programmers have the ability to improve Houdini or Rybka elo...doubt it.
ask yourself, when Robert Houdart and Vas are gone, who is left and what have they shown us they can do to raise a program above the very top elo strength, so far all of the other programmers have peaked out, they are out of ideas for strength. of course they have the free code that is floating around but it takes a lot of energy to implement and tune---and that is only if they can, many cannot.
I have read every post on code stealing and I have read both sides.
It seems Rybka was reverse-engineered and put on the internet as open source as Ippolit or Robbolitto, If I was in the business, I would say sorry Vas that that happened, and then I would use the open source.
It seems you Deeb have appointed yourself the task of being MR anti Houdart. I don't know what your qualifications are to assume this role. why didn't ED appoint himself, why didn't Hyatt appoint himself, what about Critters author, why doesn't he do it?
I hope you and others don't run off Robert Houdart before his time is up.
and another thing, I don't consider your reply an attack.
It is not how much you can take, it is how much you can take and still keep moving forward without taking it personal.
kgburcham
Fair enough.........

Got your point.........
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
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Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9773
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:44 pm
Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: Houdini - Cluster Rybka encounter....

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb »

yanquis1972 wrote:nice post, agreed with all but one point. i am very confident komodo will rival houdini within a year or two.
Don is rewriting Komodo MP from scratch using a new programming language.....

It will take a while before Komodo MP makes it's comeback........
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….