Komodo Dragon 2.6 released

[Cornfed]

My opinion might not be correct, but probably other can agree with me, even if you set Komodo Dragon 2.6 to 2800 settings in Rapid it should beat Carlsen. My opinion is based on the only fact that human including Super GM and the best human player like Carlsen, once in a while makes an inferior move Not necessarily a blunder but not the best move and Komodo at a setting of 2800 in rapid will never blunder a minor piece or any piece at all, plus that being human and knowing that you are playing an engine is enough to make the human nervous.

I was about to say something similar but think the engine could be set even lower and still beat Magnus in a match long enough to truly determine which is 'better'. A human is still prone to mistakes below their 'elo strength' - both big and small and (just as importantly) so do their human opponents against whom they play in those games that have counted toward this elo. It's a complex set of things and the programmers burden to try to program different ranges to best reflect the type of 'errors' most commonly found within that range.

[lkaufman]

My opinion might not be correct, but probably other can agree with me, even if you set Komodo Dragon 2.6 to 2800 settings in Rapid it should beat Carlsen. My opinion is based on the only fact that human including Super GM and the best human player like Carlsen, once in a while makes an inferior move Not necessarily a blunder but not the best move and Komodo at a setting of 2800 in rapid will never blunder a minor piece or any piece at all, plus that being human and knowing that you are playing an engine is enough to make the human nervous.

I'm not saying that your conclusion is wrong, but the reason you give is not a valid argument because you could say the same thing if we set the elo to 2000, where it would still not make obvious piece blunders. The point is, if we run a match of (for example) Dragon with Elo=2500 vs 2500 rated GM in Rapid and get a tied score after 8 games, it doesn't matter if the engine wins two games by blunders while losing two games by being outplayed. The rating is supposed to be the rating a human needs to achieve an even score against it in a serious Rapid match. If I have set the values correctly, I would expect that in a match the human would more often get the advantage but would occasionally blunder. The engine will also "blunder" some advantages away, but they will at least be subtle blunders, not ones that a novice could see.

[Chessqueen]

My opinion might not be correct, but probably other can agree with me, even if you set Komodo Dragon 2.6 to 2800 settings in Rapid it should beat Carlsen. My opinion is based on the only fact that human including Super GM and the best human player like Carlsen, once in a while makes an inferior move Not necessarily a blunder but not the best move and Komodo at a setting of 2800 in rapid will never blunder a minor piece or any piece at all, plus that being human and knowing that you are playing an engine is enough to make the human nervous.

I'm not saying that your conclusion is wrong, but the reason you give is not a valid argument because you could say the same thing if we set the elo to 2000, where it would still not make obvious piece blunders. The point is, if we run a match of (for example) Dragon with Elo=2500 vs 2500 rated GM in Rapid and get a tied score after 8 games, it doesn't matter if the engine wins two games by blunders while losing two games by being outplayed. The rating is supposed to be the rating a human needs to achieve an even score against it in a serious Rapid match. If I have set the values correctly, I would expect that in a match the human would more often get the advantage but would occasionally blunder. The engine will also "blunder" some advantages away, but they will at least be subtle blunders, not ones that a novice could see.

I agree with your last statement, but as far as human either they get over confident that they are winning or too nervous and top GM sometimes blunders terribly, which is why Komodo Dragon 2.6 should easily win a 8 games match at T/C 15 minutes 10 sec bonus . I will post this game where GM Svane Ramus was winning with 2 pawns extra versus GM Anish Giri and there was a mate in 2 moves, and if you give this position to any players rated between 1250 to 1450 they will not move their White King to h5? trapping it since they love to check and as long as they continue checking with their Queen ( Notice that the lower the rating of the players the more they love to Check and continue checking hoping to trade either Queens or check mate their opponents and eventually or by coincidence after several checks to the Black King they will see the 2 moves Mate that GM Ramus missed against GM Anish Giri )

[Chessqueen]

My opinion might not be correct, but probably other can agree with me, even if you set Komodo Dragon 2.6 to 2800 settings in Rapid it should beat Carlsen. My opinion is based on the only fact that human including Super GM and the best human player like Carlsen, once in a while makes an inferior move Not necessarily a blunder but not the best move and Komodo at a setting of 2800 in rapid will never blunder a minor piece or any piece at all, plus that being human and knowing that you are playing an engine is enough to make the human nervous.

I'm not saying that your conclusion is wrong, but the reason you give is not a valid argument because you could say the same thing if we set the elo to 2000, where it would still not make obvious piece blunders. The point is, if we run a match of (for example) Dragon with Elo=2500 vs 2500 rated GM in Rapid and get a tied score after 8 games, it doesn't matter if the engine wins two games by blunders while losing two games by being outplayed. The rating is supposed to be the rating a human needs to achieve an even score against it in a serious Rapid match. If I have set the values correctly, I would expect that in a match the human would more often get the advantage but would occasionally blunder. The engine will also "blunder" some advantages away, but they will at least be subtle blunders, not ones that a novice could see.

I agree with your last statement, but as far as human either they get over confident that they are winning or too nervous and top GM sometimes blunders terribly, which is why Komodo Dragon 2.6 should easily win a 8 games match at T/C 15 minutes 10 sec bonus . I will post this game where GM Svane Ramus was winning with 2 pawns extra versus GM Anish Giri and there was a mate in 2 moves, and if you give this position to any players rated between 1250 to 1450 they will not move their White King to h5? trapping it since they love to check and as long as they continue checking with their Queen ( Notice that the lower the rating of the players the more they love to Check and continue checking hoping to trade either Queens or check mate their opponents and eventually or by coincidence after several checks to the Black King they will see the 2 moves Mate that GM Ramus missed against GM Anish Giri )

Note: I was wrong if I set Komodo dragon to anything less than 1800 it does not find mate and Stockfish 14 finds a way to draw, but if I set it to 1800 at T/C of 30 seconds left on the clock as it was played by both GM with this position Komodo Dragon 2.6 UCI_ELO = 1800 forces the win against stockfish 14 NNUE no UCI_ELO Limit for Stockfish 14 NNUE full strength. This is without using Endgame EGTB.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2021.12.27"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon-2.6-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "Stockfish_14.1_win_x64_avx2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "14:55:49"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "30+0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "1q6/7k/8/5PK1/6P1/4Q3/8/8 w - - 1 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "10"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. Qe7+ Kh8 2. Kg6 Qb6+ 3. Qf6+ Qxf6+ 4. Kxf6 Kh7 5. Kg5 Kg7 {Black
resigns} *[/pgn]

[Chessqueen]

Here is what happened if I set Komodo Dragon 2.6 UCI_ELO = 1750 It can not force Stockfish 14 NNUE to Lose. This is without using Endgame EGTB.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2021.12.27"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon-2.6-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "Stockfish_14.1_win_x64_avx2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "15:04:00"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "30+0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "1q6/7k/8/5PK1/6P1/4Q3/8/8 w - - 1 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "58"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. Qe7+ Kh8 2. f6 Qg8+ 3. Kh5 Qd5+ 4. Kh6 Qd2+ 5. g5 Qh2+ 6. Kg6 Qc2+ 7.
Kh5 Qh2+ 8. Kg4 Qg1+ 9. Kf5 Qf1+ 10. Kg6 Qb1+ 11. Kf7 Qh7+ 12. Ke8 Qg6+ 13.
f7 Qc6+ 14. Qd7 Qe4+ 15. Kd8 Kg7 16. Qe7 Qa8+ 17. Kd7 Qa7+ 18. Kd6 Qd4+ 19.
Ke6 Qe4+ 20. Kd7 Qd3+ 21. Ke8 Qb5+ 22. Qd7 Qxd7+ 23. Kxd7 Kxf7 24. Kc7 Ke6
25. Kc6 Kf7 26. Kc7 Ke6 27. Kc6 Kf5 28. Kd7 Kg6 29. Kc7 Kxg5 {Insufficient
material} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

[lkaufman]

My opinion might not be correct, but probably other can agree with me, even if you set Komodo Dragon 2.6 to 2800 settings in Rapid it should beat Carlsen. My opinion is based on the only fact that human including Super GM and the best human player like Carlsen, once in a while makes an inferior move Not necessarily a blunder but not the best move and Komodo at a setting of 2800 in rapid will never blunder a minor piece or any piece at all, plus that being human and knowing that you are playing an engine is enough to make the human nervous.

I'm not saying that your conclusion is wrong, but the reason you give is not a valid argument because you could say the same thing if we set the elo to 2000, where it would still not make obvious piece blunders. The point is, if we run a match of (for example) Dragon with Elo=2500 vs 2500 rated GM in Rapid and get a tied score after 8 games, it doesn't matter if the engine wins two games by blunders while losing two games by being outplayed. The rating is supposed to be the rating a human needs to achieve an even score against it in a serious Rapid match. If I have set the values correctly, I would expect that in a match the human would more often get the advantage but would occasionally blunder. The engine will also "blunder" some advantages away, but they will at least be subtle blunders, not ones that a novice could see.

I agree with your last statement, but as far as human either they get over confident that they are winning or too nervous and top GM sometimes blunders terribly, which is why Komodo Dragon 2.6 should easily win a 8 games match at T/C 15 minutes 10 sec bonus . I will post this game where GM Svane Ramus was winning with 2 pawns extra versus GM Anish Giri and there was a mate in 2 moves, and if you give this position to any players rated between 1250 to 1450 they will not move their White King to h5? trapping it since they love to check and as long as they continue checking with their Queen ( Notice that the lower the rating of the players the more they love to Check and continue checking hoping to trade either Queens or check mate their opponents and eventually or by coincidence after several checks to the Black King they will see the 2 moves Mate that GM Ramus missed against GM Anish Giri )

If you are right about a top gm (or any gm) losing badly to dragon 2.6 with elo set equal to GM rating, in a Rapid match, it would just mean that I set param values too high. By definition, if I set them properly such a match should be a tossup.

[Cornfed]

My opinion might not be correct, but probably other can agree with me, even if you set Komodo Dragon 2.6 to 2800 settings in Rapid it should beat Carlsen. My opinion is based on the only fact that human including Super GM and the best human player like Carlsen, once in a while makes an inferior move Not necessarily a blunder but not the best move and Komodo at a setting of 2800 in rapid will never blunder a minor piece or any piece at all, plus that being human and knowing that you are playing an engine is enough to make the human nervous.

I'm not saying that your conclusion is wrong, but the reason you give is not a valid argument because you could say the same thing if we set the elo to 2000, where it would still not make obvious piece blunders. The point is, if we run a match of (for example) Dragon with Elo=2500 vs 2500 rated GM in Rapid and get a tied score after 8 games, it doesn't matter if the engine wins two games by blunders while losing two games by being outplayed. The rating is supposed to be the rating a human needs to achieve an even score against it in a serious Rapid match. If I have set the values correctly, I would expect that in a match the human would more often get the advantage but would occasionally blunder. The engine will also "blunder" some advantages away, but they will at least be subtle blunders, not ones that a novice could see.

I agree with your last statement, but as far as human either they get over confident that they are winning or too nervous and top GM sometimes blunders terribly, which is why Komodo Dragon 2.6 should easily win a 8 games match at T/C 15 minutes 10 sec bonus . I will post this game where GM Svane Ramus was winning with 2 pawns extra versus GM Anish Giri and there was a mate in 2 moves, and if you give this position to any players rated between 1250 to 1450 they will not move their White King to h5? trapping it since they love to check and as long as they continue checking with their Queen ( Notice that the lower the rating of the players the more they love to Check and continue checking hoping to trade either Queens or check mate their opponents and eventually or by coincidence after several checks to the Black King they will see the 2 moves Mate that GM Ramus missed against GM Anish Giri )

If you are right about a top gm (or any gm) losing badly to dragon 2.6 with elo set equal to GM rating, in a Rapid match, it would just mean that I set param values too high. By definition, if I set them properly such a match should be a tossup.

It probably does depend on those parameters...

But isn't the problem partly that humans can and will do stupid things - especially in time trouble? You can't (or should not!) program a "GM level Engine" to outright blunder in good to won positions.

So to get an engine to play at some human approximation in rating (lets say 2625 human elo) you have to incorporate various (and more!) sub-optimal responses into your typical game than your typical 2625 GM would make on average... and simply hope the two come close to balancing out in say a 100 game match?

[lkaufman]

My opinion might not be correct, but probably other can agree with me, even if you set Komodo Dragon 2.6 to 2800 settings in Rapid it should beat Carlsen. My opinion is based on the only fact that human including Super GM and the best human player like Carlsen, once in a while makes an inferior move Not necessarily a blunder but not the best move and Komodo at a setting of 2800 in rapid will never blunder a minor piece or any piece at all, plus that being human and knowing that you are playing an engine is enough to make the human nervous.

I'm not saying that your conclusion is wrong, but the reason you give is not a valid argument because you could say the same thing if we set the elo to 2000, where it would still not make obvious piece blunders. The point is, if we run a match of (for example) Dragon with Elo=2500 vs 2500 rated GM in Rapid and get a tied score after 8 games, it doesn't matter if the engine wins two games by blunders while losing two games by being outplayed. The rating is supposed to be the rating a human needs to achieve an even score against it in a serious Rapid match. If I have set the values correctly, I would expect that in a match the human would more often get the advantage but would occasionally blunder. The engine will also "blunder" some advantages away, but they will at least be subtle blunders, not ones that a novice could see.

I agree with your last statement, but as far as human either they get over confident that they are winning or too nervous and top GM sometimes blunders terribly, which is why Komodo Dragon 2.6 should easily win a 8 games match at T/C 15 minutes 10 sec bonus . I will post this game where GM Svane Ramus was winning with 2 pawns extra versus GM Anish Giri and there was a mate in 2 moves, and if you give this position to any players rated between 1250 to 1450 they will not move their White King to h5? trapping it since they love to check and as long as they continue checking with their Queen ( Notice that the lower the rating of the players the more they love to Check and continue checking hoping to trade either Queens or check mate their opponents and eventually or by coincidence after several checks to the Black King they will see the 2 moves Mate that GM Ramus missed against GM Anish Giri )

If you are right about a top gm (or any gm) losing badly to dragon 2.6 with elo set equal to GM rating, in a Rapid match, it would just mean that I set param values too high. By definition, if I set them properly such a match should be a tossup.

It probably does depend on those parameters...

But isn't the problem partly that humans can and will do stupid things - especially in time trouble? You can't (or should not!) program a "GM level Engine" to outright blunder in good to won positions.

So to get an engine to play at some human approximation in rating (lets say 2625 human elo) you have to incorporate various (and more!) sub-optimal responses into your typical game than your typical 2625 GM would make on average... and simply hope the two come close to balancing out in say a 100 game match?

That’s basically right, but the short engine searches will make moves that Carlsen might call blunders if he made them, but which a 2000 rated player might need a minute or so to see the flaw. In other words, the engine blunders will be less variable than an equally rated human, but on average fairly comparable.

[Chessqueen]

Remembering the short conversation that I had with Elvis Hernandez Sanchez after his game, he mentioned that Komodo Dragon 2.6 could be very useful for anybody who wants to improve because playing with another human he could probably held a draw but Komodo Dragon when it saw a small edge it never left him off the hook like a good fisherman. When I asked him why he thought that Komodo Dragon could be very useful he said that when he purchase Komodo Dragon 2.6 he will play several games until he manage to beat it at least 60% of the times and it will make him a much better player, then and only then he will increase the UCI_ELO to 2300 and so on.... https://ratings.fide.com/profile/6400353

[pgn][Date "2021.12.25"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon-2.6-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "Elvis Hernandez Sanchez"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "2274"]
[ECO "B06"]
[Opening "Modern"]
[Time "00:15:46"]
[Variation "Pseudo-Austrian Attack, 1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 d6 4.f4"]
[WhiteElo "2274"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]


1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 d6 4. f4 e6 5. Nf3 Ne7 6. Bd3 Nd7 7. O-O b6 8. f5
exf5 9. exf5 Bb7 10. Bg5 Bxf3 11. Qxf3 Bxd4+ 12. Kh1 Ne5 13. Qe4 Bxc3 14.
bxc3 c6 15. Bf6 Rg8 16. Rae1 Qc7 17. Bxe5 dxe5 18. f6 Nf5 19. g4 Nd6 20.
Qxe5+ Kd8 21. Rd1 Re8 22. Qf4 Kc8 23. Ba6+ Nb7 24. Rd6 Rd8 25. Rxd8+ Qxd8
26. Re1 Rb8 27. Re7 {User Adjudication}[/pgn]

[AdminX]

Remembering the short conversation that I had with Elvis Hernandez Sanchez after his game, he mentioned that Komodo Dragon 2.6 could be very useful for anybody who wants to improve because playing with another human he could probably held a draw but Komodo Dragon when it saw a small edge it never left him off the hook like a good fisherman. When I asked him why he thought that Komodo Dragon could be very useful he said that when he purchase Komodo Dragon 2.6 he will play several games until he manage to beat it at least 60% of the times and it will make him a much better player, then and only then he will increase the UCI_ELO to 2300 and so on.... https://ratings.fide.com/profile/6400353

[pgn][Date "2021.12.25"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon-2.6-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "Elvis Hernandez Sanchez"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "2274"]
[ECO "B06"]
[Opening "Modern"]
[Time "00:15:46"]
[Variation "Pseudo-Austrian Attack, 1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 d6 4.f4"]
[WhiteElo "2274"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]


1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 d6 4. f4 e6 5. Nf3 Ne7 6. Bd3 Nd7 7. O-O b6 8. f5
exf5 9. exf5 Bb7 10. Bg5 Bxf3 11. Qxf3 Bxd4+ 12. Kh1 Ne5 13. Qe4 Bxc3 14.
bxc3 c6 15. Bf6 Rg8 16. Rae1 Qc7 17. Bxe5 dxe5 18. f6 Nf5 19. g4 Nd6 20.
Qxe5+ Kd8 21. Rd1 Re8 22. Qf4 Kc8 23. Ba6+ Nb7 24. Rd6 Rd8 25. Rxd8+ Qxd8
26. Re1 Rb8 27. Re7 {User Adjudication}[/pgn]

+1